Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Darned Engine Battery
| Darned Engine Battery [message #96803] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 13:09  |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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Senior Member |
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Will a bad battery cause the isolator to go into overload?
I have been cleaning the cables for 6 months to keep the engine battery going. Seemed to work everytime. I do not plug it into AC because of the solar, when parked in our drive.
Went out today, no engine, click and all lights go out. Like a bad connection. My 3 stage Vector wont charge the thing. So, I take cables off. Still wont charge it. It is a booger as I have to pull the dang inner fender, 3 battery tray. Voltage shows 12.4 on the battery but my house batteries show 13.5, as the solar is on them. That tells me I am not wired right somewhere, or I have a bad component. I wonder if the isolator is bad again?
For some reason it just does not seem to charge from the solar, PD 45, only the alternator. Seems I have had engine battery problems for 6 years on this coach and I can not figure it out. I lost an isolator 3 years ago. Last year I lost a combiner. My boost switch is wired to the engine battery so when I really have a dead battery I can not boost it. Shouldn't the boost be wired to the house batteries?
Oh well, I have cooled off now so I guess back out into the heat and pull the inner fender. Got to get ready for another trip on Wednesday.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: [GMCnet] Darned Engine Battery [message #96806 is a reply to message #96803] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 13:54  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Dan,
Your engine battery failure sounds like the one I had a couple of weeks ago
-- darned thing was just DEAD one day. I haven't yet figured out why --
never will, I hope.
Too bad you're not here, you could use my battery lift:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5425
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5425>But then, you've
got a few years before you get into my state. :-)
Ken H.
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...
Oh well, I have cooled off now so I guess back out into the heat and pull
> the inner fender. Got to get ready for another trip on Wednesday.
> Dan
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Darned Engine Battery [message #96823 is a reply to message #96820] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 16:05 |
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Dan, sorry to hear of your troubles and good to meet you in OR. I had to go over all my wiring per the schematic when I bought my coach. I think the PO's all had good intentions, but hard to figure some of the mistakes. Ground connections are very important and I had a mess of them. If I read your post correctly, the engine battery and the house batteries ARE connected together by the boost. That is how it is supposed to work. Gene shows a mod to connect the starting battery to make is less of a problem. I don't remember where it is but search for "Gene" and I think you can find it. Again, the ground behind the dash is particularly vulnerable to faults. I connected direct from my battery to the panel ground on back. It helped a lot. I think the pros will ride in here, but that's my two cents, Best to you,
By the way, I also have a PD 45, and it has saved (I'm sure) my old Costco battery (of nearly seven years) of going to the junk pile. I also re-read your post and see that the engine battery makes the boost work. OK. If your alternator charges the battery as you stated, I'd say the diodes stand a good chance of being OK.
geo groth '73 260 Sequoia
Carson City Nevada 89703
[Updated on: Sun, 22 August 2010 16:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Darned Engine Battery [message #96850 is a reply to message #96820] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 18:04 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Dan,
Right, if your battery is at 12.4 VDC, it's probably OK.
I'm also having leakage (seepage) problems since installing the Cad500. I
just put the coolant back in yesterday after draining it when I though I'd
have to pull the intake manifold to find the "lost" pushrod. This time I
put some stop leak in it. Most of us are probably too reluctant to do that.
We forget that for many years it was routine at GMC, so I understand, to
put a couple of stop leak pellets in the radiator at the end of the
production line. The cellulose fiber they're made of seals the tiny leaks
without harming anything else. Bob De K. made some reference to such here
very recently.
As for that 180*F thermostat -- don't expect the engine to run any cooler.
Remember: Thermostats don't reduce temperature, they just keep it up where
it belongs -- which is 195*F for our engines. If engine condition, load,
and ambient conditions force the engine to reach above 195*F, it's going to
do it even if you put in a 165*F thermostat.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Ken. I now do not believe it is the battery. It checks 12.4. The
> fully charged one on my car checks 12.3 and it is new.
> Somewhere in there I have a bad connection, a real bad one and it is not
> the cables or the boost connections. I really have no clue at the moment. So
> hot I can not work anymore out there for a while.
> Has not been a good day. All of my intake coolant connections leak. Went to
> drain the radiator and the dang petcock has been cross threaded somehow.
> Just aint my day so I am stopping until tomorrow. I did get the 195
> thermostat out and replaced it with the "blow by" 180 Robt Shaw. She will
> run cool now. I figure we are going to get into some 100 degree weather on
> our trip this week. Will have to put the 195 back in for winter so we have
> heat.
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Darned Engine Battery [message #96854 is a reply to message #96803] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 18:37 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken, I'm confused as to why you drained coolant to remove the intake manifold. Caddys are dry,,,no coolant in the manifold.,,,and why did you think you lost a push rod??? Was that a longer one or one of the short ones??? What were the symptoms?? Inquiring minds wre wondering????best of luck,,PL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Darned Engine Battery [message #96862 is a reply to message #96854] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 19:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Paul,
Could be confusing, couldn't it?
While removing the rockers in preparation for the arrival and installation
of the 0.030" over-length pushrods, I lost control of #7 intake pushrod. It
disappeared into the depths of the engine. Into the lifter gallery? Thru a
drain-back hole into the crankcase??? Several different magnetic pickups
didn't rattle a thing. I even got scared of pulling a lifter out of its
bore. No one I knew had a bore scope except the plumber, whose probe was
too big, and a widow in NC who wouldn't know it if it bit her.
So I started preparing to remove the intake manifold by disconnecting the
throttle linkage and draining the radiator so I could remove the
over-the-top radiator hoses (there you go!). Then I decided to try one more
friend. One of his customers was standing there when I asked about a bore
scope and volunteered the name of garage that has one. A short drive, a
little begging, and a hefty deposit got me the loan of a bore scope.
After looking & looking & looking deep inside the engine, I was about ready
to pull the manifold. As I stuck the probe through the pushrod hole one
final time, I caught a glimpse of that shiny ball end with the hole in the
middle -- about 1/2" to the rear of where it should be, resting against the
rear of the block. The magnet on the wrong end of my carbide scribe lifted
the push rod out to where I could grab it. Wheeew!!!
What really disgusted me was losing #1 intake pushrod the same way while
reassembling with the long rods. I thought I was being really careful, but
it got away from me. Fortunately, it lodged in the symmetrical location to
#7, and the magnet lifted it right out. I think I'll start tying strings on
push rods! :-)
It sounds more like a Cadillac without all the tappet noise, but I haven't
driven it yet. Almost afraid to for fear my oil leak up front will be
worse. :-(
Probably tomorrow.
Ken H.
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken, I'm confused as to why you drained coolant to remove the intake
> manifold. Caddys are dry,,,no coolant in the manifold.,,,and why did you
> think you lost a push rod??? Was that a longer one or one of the short
> ones??? What were the symptoms?? Inquiring minds wre wondering????best of
> luck,,PL
> _______________________________________________
>
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Darned Engine Battery [message #96867 is a reply to message #96803] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 20:03 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 14:09 |
Will a bad battery cause the isolator to go into overload?
I have been cleaning the cables for 6 months to keep the engine battery going. Seemed to work everytime. I do not plug it into AC because of the solar, when parked in our drive.
Went out today, no engine, click and all lights go out. Like a bad connection. My 3 stage Vector wont charge the thing. So, I take cables off. Still wont charge it. It is a booger as I have to pull the dang inner fender, 3 battery tray. Voltage shows 12.4 on the battery but my house batteries show 13.5, as the solar is on them. That tells me I am not wired right somewhere, or I have a bad component. I wonder if the isolator is bad again?
For some reason it just does not seem to charge from the solar, PD 45, only the alternator. Seems I have had engine battery problems for 6 years on this coach and I can not figure it out. I lost an isolator 3 years ago. Last year I lost a combiner. My boost switch is wired to the engine battery so when I really have a dead battery I can not boost it. Shouldn't the boost be wired to the house batteries?
Oh well, I have cooled off now so I guess back out into the heat and pull the inner fender. Got to get ready for another trip on Wednesday.
Dan
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Dan,
I fight this sort of thing on other people's (of course, I don't have one) boats all the time.
The isolator should be rated for the maximum capability of the alternator and so, you should not be able to hurt it. Even still, it diagnoses with a VOM in a heartbeat. Disconnect it and see if it is still two (2) (one and one more) didodes in the same package and going the right way.
If your coach wiring has not been messed with, the engine battery only charges from the alternator - unless your Yandrina combiner is working.
To make the boost work with a dead engine battery, carry a cheezy little jumper lead and attach it to the switch terminal on the boost solenoid and the house battery terminal and wait a couple of minutes.
I am planning to have good instruments at DuQuoin, so if you are still having trouble, look me up.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Darned Engine Battery [message #96868 is a reply to message #96820] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 20:04 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Dan,
If you have a combiner and the house battery is at 13.5, then the combiner should close and connect the engine battery in parallel and you should see 13.5 on the engine battery too. Is the Green Combined light lit on the combiner?
Also, if you just put a voltmeter across the battery terminals without any load or charging current, you are reading the open-circuit voltage of the battery. It can read normal in that case but have a high internal resistance which causes it to "die" under load.
If you can't have someone turn the key to start while you read the voltage, then pull ON the headlights to put some load on the engine battery and then check your engine battery voltage. If its still up then the battery should be good, but if its dropped to say under 11.5v or so then you have a dead battery.
If the headlights look dim, but across the battery terminals you still have over 12V then use the voltmeter to look for your "loss" of voltage. Check voltage from battery Neg terminal to body and engine ground (should be zero volts). and follow positive line until you find your bad connection.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: Darned Engine Battery [message #96899 is a reply to message #96803] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 07:48 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I've experienced the sudden battery failure as well.
Back in 2005, I bought 2 new Chev pickups and a new Pontiac G6 on the same day. In 2009 I had the batteries fail in all 3 vehicles within maybe 2 months.
In each case there was no warning just tick tick tick. One pickup had about 250,000k's the other pickup was in the 80,000's.
Interestingly the car had only 50,000kms (thats about 30,000 miles). Paula had stopped to pickup a paper and when she tried to restart.. it was just tick-tick-tick, then the horn started to blow and other interesting events.. door locks open/close etc, (obviously the alarm system was messed up). She called me all frantic so I went down and boosted it, got it started and followed her home.
At home, shut it off after about 5 mins and tried to restart, completely dead. So I got out a commercial battery charging/maintenace system and disconnected the battery from the car and hooked it to this fancy $2,000 charger and left it overnight. Next day there was not enough charge to operate the dome light so I replaced the battery in it as well.
But was has ticked me to this day about the car is that since the battery died, the radio just display's "CD Error" for about 9 seconds out of 10, then displays the time/temp for about a second. I don't care about the CD player, I listen mostly to talk radio. The dealer says the radio needs replacement at a cost of about $900.00. So as I glance down to see the time and all I see is CD Error, I'm reminded why GM is no longer #1 auto maker.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
[Updated on: Mon, 23 August 2010 07:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Darned Engine Battery [message #96915 is a reply to message #96871] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 11:32 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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| g.winger wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 18:27 |
This probably won't help you, but I've noticed that batteries seem to just "Die". Others have noticed the same. 20-30 years ago they would crank slow and that would indicate they were about to expire. Now it seems they just quit! Just someyhing I noticed.,,,PL
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Same thing happened to me this past year in my 2 toyotas no problems at all then stone dead batterys that would not even try to take a charge?
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Darned Engine Battery [message #96919 is a reply to message #96915] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 11:49 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| roy1 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 10:32 |
| g.winger wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 18:27 |
This probably won't help you, but I've noticed that batteries seem to just "Die". Others have noticed the same. 20-30 years ago they would crank slow and that would indicate they were about to expire. Now it seems they just quit! Just someyhing I noticed.,,,PL
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Same thing happened to me this past year in my 2 toyotas no problems at all then stone dead batterys that would not even try to take a charge?
Roy
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I have experienced the same thing, but blamed that failure mode to the heat in AZ. Sounds like newer batteries have a "newer" way of failing than I was used to.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Darned Engine Battery [message #96921 is a reply to message #96803] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 12:27 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Interesting discussion about battery failure. Same "sudden death" just happened to me a week and a half ago. One day of slightly slower than normal cranking and the next day I shut it off while doing some arrands and 10 minutes later, click. Tried to charge with a decent charger and no luck. Battery store said battery was "toast". Not the first time this has happened to me.
DAVE KING
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: Darned Engine Battery [message #96927 is a reply to message #96803] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 13:14 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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It's interesting that this seems to be happening this summer. My battery also just died suddenly after an admittedly hot summer up here in Chicago. Worked fine one day, then nothing. Also, would not take a charge and when tested was dead as a doornail.
I replaced it with a group 34/78 battery to take advantage of having both the top and the side terminals. I did the modification to the starter wiring as long as everything was apart, and now the coach turns over like it's coming off the starting line at the Indianapolis 500!
Next, I'll have to work on the neutral bypass switch.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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