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| [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95700] |
Fri, 13 August 2010 14:01  |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Netters
Right now I have limited access to the internet and can't really read all of
the info available on clutch fans at the moment.
I am at a wedding in Quebec where the Bride is French, the Groom is Spanish
speaking from Chile, and the Best Man (that's Me, Moi, and Mi).....I thought
clutch fans was a confusing issue until I got here and tried to carry on a
conversation....[get to the point !}
My question is, do fans come on at a predetermined temp and can you order
one, say to come on at 192 and 1/2 degrees ? When should they shut off...
when the temp matches the thermostat rating?
Just wondering.......
Thanks
Gracias
Merci
Mike from NS.....
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95701 is a reply to message #95700] |
Fri, 13 August 2010 14:29  |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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""My question is, do fans come on at a predetermined temp and can you order
one, say to come on at 192 and 1/2 degrees ? When should they shut off...
when the temp matches the thermostat rating?
""
Wow-that's going to be quite a ceremony!!!
As far as the fan clutch, I think were're lucky if we can nail it within 10 or 15 degrees even with a single part number. I think that's a large part of our frustration here. I still wouldn't rule out the possiblity of a modification that could allow us to adjust them on an individual basis--but that's a whole other thread  Enjoy!!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95715 is a reply to message #95701] |
Fri, 13 August 2010 17:53 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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I agree with you Bob.
As far as adjustment. Chuck Aulger tried it, I've tried it. No joy!
Moving, stretching, or shortening that bimetallic spring only makes
it work less effectively.
Maybe the light's brighter in someone elses shop?
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> ""My question is, do fans come on at a predetermined temp and can you order
> one, say to come on at 192 and 1/2 degrees ? When should they shut off...
> when the temp matches the thermostat rating?
> ""
>
> Wow-that's going to be quite a ceremony!!!
>
> As far as the fan clutch, I think were're lucky if we can nail it within 10 or 15 degrees even with a single part number. I think that's a large part of our frustration here. I still wouldn't rule out the possiblity of a modification that could allow us to adjust them on an individual basis--but that's a whole other thread :) Enjoy!!
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95745 is a reply to message #95715] |
Fri, 13 August 2010 20:08 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""As far as adjustment. Chuck Aulger tried it, I've tried it. No joy!
Moving, stretching, or shortening that bimetallic spring only makes
it work less effectively.
Maybe the light's brighter in someone elses shop?
""
Well bummer!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95747 is a reply to message #95745] |
Fri, 13 August 2010 20:18 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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I think that "It is whut it is" kinda covers it. The aftermarket replacement
OE parts market is in total disarray, and the SEMA guys are almost as bad.
If they can't injection mold it out of plastic, it pretty much goes
offshore. BS for sure.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> ""As far as adjustment. Chuck Aulger tried it, I've tried it. No joy!
> Moving, stretching, or shortening that bimetallic spring only makes
> it work less effectively.
> Maybe the light's brighter in someone elses shop?
> ""
>
> Well bummer!
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95790 is a reply to message #95787] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 08:06 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Ken,
I did some research on those and they are quite costly. There is
nothing that is a direct fit and most of the units are for much
heavier duty applications. With the relatively small size of our fans
one of those should last just about forever though.
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 5:53 AM, Ken Coit <ktcoit@gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone fitted an electric/magnetic clutch and thermostat to the water
> pump?
>
> Are they reliable?
>
>
> --
> Ken Coit, ND7N
> Raleigh, NC
> Parfait Royale
> 1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95792 is a reply to message #95790] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 08:17 |
Ken Coit
Messages: 151
Registered: November 2005
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They were costly.
Here's a link to one for $130:
http://www.amazon.com/2002-2006-Chevrolet-TrailBlazer-Electric-Clutch/dp/B0036ZZQIM
That would give us the ability to fine tune fan operation relative to the
coolant temperature, rate of change, etc.
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>wrote:
> Ken,
> I did some research on those and they are quite costly. There is
> nothing that is a direct fit and most of the units are for much
> heavier duty applications. With the relatively small size of our fans
> one of those should last just about forever though.
>
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 5:53 AM, Ken Coit <ktcoit@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone fitted an electric/magnetic clutch and thermostat to the water
> > pump?
> >
> > Are they reliable?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ken Coit, ND7N
> > Raleigh, NC
> > Parfait Royale
> > 1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Ken Coit, ND7N
Raleigh, NC
Parfait Royale
1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95795 is a reply to message #95792] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 08:47 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Ken, THANKS for that application information. I've been trying to find
something like that. But, that link's broken.
Here's the RockAuto photo of the 4 Seasons version for $257.79. The Dorman
version is only $130.79.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1312804
BIG Problem: It's for reverse rotation. We may have trouble finding one
that's not since everything's got serpentine belts these days. I'd spring
for one if I still ran my 455 w/serpentine but on the Cad I don't have to
run the WP backward.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Ken Coit <ktcoit@gmail.com> wrote:
> They were costly.
>
> Here's a link to one for $130:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/2002-2006-Chevrolet-TrailBlazer-Electric-Clutch/dp/B0036ZZQIM
>
> That would give us the ability to fine tune fan operation relative to the
> coolant temperature, rate of change, etc.
>
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95799 is a reply to message #95795] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 09:32 |
Ken Coit
Messages: 151
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 0
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My understatement: "That does make it a bit more complicated."
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Ken, THANKS for that application information. I've been trying to find
> something like that. But, that link's broken.
>
> Here's the RockAuto photo of the 4 Seasons version for $257.79. The Dorman
> version is only $130.79.
> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1312804
>
> BIG Problem: It's for reverse rotation. We may have trouble finding one
> that's not since everything's got serpentine belts these days. I'd spring
> for one if I still ran my 455 w/serpentine but on the Cad I don't have to
> run the WP backward.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Ken Coit <ktcoit@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > They were costly.
> >
> > Here's a link to one for $130:
> >
> >
> http://www.amazon.com/2002-2006-Chevrolet-TrailBlazer-Electric-Clutch/dp/B0036ZZQIM
> >
> > That would give us the ability to fine tune fan operation relative to the
> > coolant temperature, rate of change, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Ken Coit, ND7N
Raleigh, NC
Parfait Royale
1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95816 is a reply to message #95792] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 12:44 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""They were costly.
Here's a link to one for $130:
http://www.amazon.com/2002-2006-Chevrolet-TrailBlazer-Electric-Clutch/dp/B0036ZZQIM
That would give us the ability to fine tune fan operation relative to the
coolant temperature, rate of change, etc.
""
I've been looking at those and I suspect it may take a bit of research to find the correct mounting interfaces and rotation, but the right one may exist. They are available as you show for about double of a Hayden 2797. What I don't know is what kind of signal they recieve--is it a straight 12V on off, pulse width modulated, variable voltage? A little reseach could figure that out quickly. Now that I have a clutch that works correctly for me and my driving style, I'm going to keep it simple, but it is interesting.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95831 is a reply to message #95830] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 13:33 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Ken--the pulse width modulation may be a bit difficult for us, esp us who are running with no computers. On the other hand there's a hint there that 12V on or off can cause the clutch to be fully on or fully off which aint all bad either. I think we need Ken H to add this to his list of assignments
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95853 is a reply to message #95700] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 17:58 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I think Bob deK needs to pester a company called Horton about fan clutches for Uhaul's trucks. Horton makes the on or off fan clutch used on a lot of International school bus chassis, years 2001 to 2004 at least, may also be used on International trucks. I know when some specific relay mounted on the engine side of the firewall fails, the clutch doesn't engage so it may not be Pulse width.
DAVE KING
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95873 is a reply to message #95831] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 20:36 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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On this site there's a good dissertation on the directly controlled viscous
clutches:
http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=19604
<http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=19604>It doesn't really
describe the operation, but that's available from GM manuals on several
sites. Basically, the clutch valve is closed by 12 V Pulse Width Modulation
(PWM) to vary the "tightness" of the clutch. A Hall Effect sensor feeds a 5
V speed signal to the ECU, which monitors that speed, engine temperature,
air conditioner head pressure, and other parameters. Based on all those
parameters and the software, the ECU varies that control PWM.
I second the motion for Bob de K to ping Horton. They seem to be one of the
leaders of the industry and to have the broadest range of products of
anyone; they might have something close enough for us to adapt.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken Coit wrote on Sat, 14 August 2010 12:13
> > Here's a clue about how at least some of them use Pulse Width Modulation:
> >
> > http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=28179
> >
> > I hope I can stay away from it too. I 'm not even close to knowing.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ken Coit, ND7N
> > Raleigh, NC
> > Parfait Royale
> > 1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
> Thanks Ken--the pulse width modulation may be a bit difficult for us, esp
> us who are running with no computers. On the other hand there's a hint there
> that 12V on or off can cause the clutch to be fully on or fully off which
> aint all bad either. I think we need Ken H to add this to his list of
> assignments :)
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] On/Off clutch fan [message #95881 is a reply to message #95853] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 22:12 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| kingd wrote on Sat, 14 August 2010 16:58 |
I think Bob deK needs to pester a company called Horton about fan clutches for Uhaul's trucks. Horton makes the on or off fan clutch used on a lot of International school bus chassis, years 2001 to 2004 at least, may also be used on International trucks. I know when some specific relay mounted on the engine side of the firewall fails, the clutch doesn't engage so it may not be Pulse width.
DAVE KING
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I'm certainly open to that!! I need to have some excitement!! On the other hand, I've never heard of them.. More to come
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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