| Better Fuel Economy [message #95484] |
Thu, 12 August 2010 10:04  |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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Every body thats watched a stock car race knows that less air through the radiator/grill results in more speed(less drag). After WWII the air force experamented with "wing coulpling' of bombers with fighters because fighters didn't have the range. After lots of tests they developed shutters for the fighters intake to cut drag. Now the we(GM) have devoloped shutters on the new Chevy Cruze. Improves MPG by as much as 1/2 MPG. Electric motors shutter some of the opening to let less air through the grill/rad. opening. Of course we could only do this with no AC and when it was cool. But I've used mine in TX when it was 27 degrees and didn't have near enough heat. Just some thing I was dreaming about. The wing coupling was abandoned when they went with auto pilot for the fighter jet. Low bidder did not provide a meter for what the auto called for. When switched on the first time the fighter rolled 180 onto the wing of the bomber. First time testing with the 29 pressured and all perished. Very sad. Was then abandoned.,,,,,PL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Better Fuel Economy [message #95501 is a reply to message #95484] |
Thu, 12 August 2010 10:54  |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Just slightly before my time, the Packard Motor Car Co. had vertical slats
in front of the radiator that opened and closed as more or less air was
needed to flow through the radiator for cooling. Worked on a thermal spring
kind of set up. When the slats were closed the grill forced the air
around the hood for less drag. "Ask the man that owns one"..
Back in the day...
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>
> Every body thats watched a stock car race knows that less air through the
> radiator/grill results in more speed(less drag). After WWII the air force
> experamented with "wing coulpling' of bombers with fighters because fighters
> didn't have the range. After lots of tests they developed shutters for the
> fighters intake to cut drag. Now the we(GM) have devoloped shutters on the
> new Chevy Cruze. Improves MPG by as much as 1/2 MPG. Electric motors shutter
> some of the opening to let less air through the grill/rad. opening. Of
> course we could only do this with no AC and when it was cool. But I've used
> mine in TX when it was 27 degrees and didn't have near enough heat. Just
> some thing I was dreaming about. The wing coupling was abandoned when they
> went with auto pilot for the fighter jet. Low bidder did not provide a meter
> for what the auto called for. When switched on the first time the fighter
> rolled 180 onto the wing of the bomber. First time testing with the 29
> pressured and all per
> ished. Very sad. Was then abandoned.,,,,,PL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: Better Fuel Economy [message #95536 is a reply to message #95484] |
Thu, 12 August 2010 12:36 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| g.winger wrote on Thu, 12 August 2010 08:04 |
Every body thats watched a stock car race knows that less air through the radiator/grill results in more speed(less drag). After WWII the air force experamented with "wing coulpling' of bombers with fighters because fighters didn't have the range. After lots of tests they developed shutters for the fighters intake to cut drag. Now the we(GM) have devoloped shutters on the new Chevy Cruze. Improves MPG by as much as 1/2 MPG. .,,,,,PL
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Myth Busters did an interesting study with golf ball dents. A ball without dents could not be driven nearly as far. They covered a car with clay.. Drove it and then put dents in the clay to scale. They were probably four inches across. They put the removed clay in the car. The car got considerably better mileage. If I remember correctly, even better than it go without the clay.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Better Fuel Economy [message #95539 is a reply to message #95536] |
Thu, 12 August 2010 12:49 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Oh GOSH! How can we keep that news from the EPA? Else we'll only be able
to buy cars with warts all over! Maybe even be required to take a ball peen
hammer to those we have before we can register them!
Ken H.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:36 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
> ...
Myth Busters did an interesting study with golf ball dents. A ball without
> dents could not be driven nearly as far. They covered a car with clay..
> Drove it and then put dents in the clay to scale. They were probably four
> inches across. They put the removed clay in the car. The car got
> considerably better mileage. If I remember correctly, even better than it
> go without the clay.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Better Fuel Economy [message #95572 is a reply to message #95539] |
Thu, 12 August 2010 16:54 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""Oh GOSH! How can we keep that news from the EPA? Else we'll only be able
to buy cars with warts all over! Maybe even be required to take a ball peen
hammer to those we have before we can register them!
Ken H.
""
Maybe hail damaged cars should sell at a premium!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Better Fuel Economy [message #95596 is a reply to message #95536] |
Thu, 12 August 2010 20:10 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| George Beckman wrote on Thu, 12 August 2010 10:36 |
Myth Busters did an interesting study with golf ball dents. A ball without dents could not be driven nearly as far. They covered a car with clay.. Drove it and then put dents in the clay to scale. They were probably four inches across. They put the removed clay in the car. The car got considerably better mileage. If I remember correctly, even better than it go without the clay.
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The dimples on a golf balls are small omnidirectional Vortex Generators. Together, they create a thin boundary layer of turbulent air next to the skin of the golf ball. There is less resistance between this layer and the airflow than what a smooth ball would have.
Vehicles normally have a known airflow direction and you can use "real" generators rather than the "dents." You also can position them where they can do the most good rather than evenly spaced around the vehicle. There is a small mention on this page: <http://www.recumbents.com/car_aerodynamics/>
While I do think they could be useful to improve MPG on our GMC's there are many more useful ideas to be done first. The above has some, but JimK has the ones to be done first. <http://www.appliedgmc.com/images/gas_mileage.pdf>
For Automotive use they are discussed more on the rear of the vehicle, but could be used anywhere there is a change in body shape causing a high pressure area just before a low pressure area. (Like the curve in the front cap to the sides and roof.) More info:
<http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/performance/vortekz/vortekz.php>
<http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Blowing-the-Vortex-Part-4/A_3061/article.html>
On a side note: If you fill the dimples on a golf ball in a band around the ball, leaving the dimples on the "ends", you end up with a ball that naturally flies straight... REGARDLESS OF HOW POORLY IT IS HIT. They are not "legal" for use by golf rules.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Better Fuel Economy [message #95609 is a reply to message #95603] |
Thu, 12 August 2010 21:32 |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Karma: 0
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Who is going to be first to dimple their Pinewood racer.
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Better Fuel Economy [message #95652 is a reply to message #95536] |
Fri, 13 August 2010 06:34 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Kinda sounds like something you'd think a guy like Richard Petty would
come up with.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:36 AM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
>
> g.winger wrote on Thu, 12 August 2010 08:04
>> Every body thats watched a stock car race knows that less air through the radiator/grill results in more speed(less drag). After WWII the air force experamented with "wing coulpling' of bombers with fighters because fighters didn't have the range. After lots of tests they developed shutters for the fighters intake to cut drag. Now the we(GM) have devoloped shutters on the new Chevy Cruze. Improves MPG by as much as 1/2 MPG. .,,,,,PL
>
>
> Myth Busters did an interesting study with golf ball dents. A ball without dents could not be driven nearly as far. They covered a car with clay.. Drove it and then put dents in the clay to scale. They were probably four inches across. They put the removed clay in the car. The car got considerably better mileage. If I remember correctly, even better than it go without the clay.
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: Better Fuel Economy [message #95803 is a reply to message #95484] |
Sat, 14 August 2010 11:07 |
Dave Martin
Messages: 59
Registered: May 2010
Location: Ames Iowa Home Base
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| Quote: |
Every body thats watched a stock car race knows that less air through the radiator/grill results in more speed(less drag)
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...
I'm having a hard time understanding this physically.
It is like saying a glass window perpendicular to a stream of air has less drag than a window screen of the same size?
How can this be true? If true it is complex because as the mesh of the screen becomes coarser and coarser the drag must eventually decrease and go away since when there's no screen there's no drag.
On the other hand as the screen mesh becomes finer and finer all the gaps become full and it is equivalent to a piece of glass.
Can anyone point to some data showing the increase in drag?
I did a little searching on-line and found this...
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Low-Drag-Car-Aerodynamics/A_109778/article.html
| Quote: |
...the flows of cooling air through the radiator do create a lot of drag. On a car with a front radiator, a huge amount of air enters through the cooling duct opening, is forced to flow through the radiator, and then spills out untidily underneath the car. This turbulent movement of the radiator cooling air increases the Cd figure by as much as 10 per cent. For example, the radiator cooling airflow accounts for 8 per cent of the AU Ford Falcon’s drag. ...
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So it isn't the radiator itself that causes the extra drag, it is the modification of the air flow it creates; one effect is that the air ducted in through the grill for the radiator is usually forced downward, under the body - this in turn creates a barrier blocking the free flow of air under the body - in effect increasing the total frontal area!
This implies that ducts to guide the radiator air smoothly out the sides of the vehicle will decrease total drag.
A PO had attached vents to the sides of my GMC but didn't connect them to the engine compartment - maybe I'd be smart to connect them!
Dave (now in Iowa).
PS my usual solution to air drag problems is to drive slower!
[Updated on: Sat, 14 August 2010 12:39] Report message to a moderator |
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I can see it now, taped up grill, water spurting from in front of the windshield, and probably a yellow "rookie stripe" on the back bumper... 
bummer..... well .... if I had me one of them Mondello Motors 
I wonder what ground speed ... naw I`ll try new off set bushings instead.. thanks