Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 24 volts to starter? (Frozen engine)
| 24 volts to starter? [message #93979] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 11:03  |
edelbach
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2004
Location: Ringoes, New Jersey
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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It was suggested that I could try hooking up 2 12-volt batteries in series in order to get my stuck engine to turn over. Has anyone tried that and if so, did it work?
As long as I didn't keep the starter energized for too long, I don't think it would be damaged.
I intend to remove all fuses and have 12-volts go to the solenoid and 24-volts only go to the starter and nothing else.
I have already put a mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and a rust breaking liquid into the cylinders and let it soak for a few weeks. Didn't fill them up completely but that will be my next step if the 24-volts don't work.
Any thoughts to share? Thanks.
Ralph, '74 Glacier, Ringoes, NJ
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| Re: [GMCnet] 24 volts to starter? [message #93985 is a reply to message #93979] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 11:33  |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Ralph
Try a 50% mix of acetone and auto trans fluid in the cylinders...you don't
want to break any rings..let sit a week or so and then try back and forth on
the front harmonic balancer nut with a breaker bar and length of
pipe...plugs out of course..lol Fill the cylinders to cover the piston.
Worked for me 25 years ago on a B-18 Volvo engine and drove it for 50,000
afterwards
Mike in NS
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:03 PM, RalphEdel <edelbach@tcnj.edu> wrote:
>
>
> It was suggested that I could try hooking up 2 12-volt batteries in series
> in order to get my stuck engine to turn over. Has anyone tried that and if
> so, did it work?
>
> As long as I didn't keep the starter energized for too long, I don't think
> it would be damaged.
>
> I intend to remove all fuses and have 12-volts go to the solenoid and
> 24-volts only go to the starter and nothing else.
>
> I have already put a mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and a rust breaking
> liquid into the cylinders and let it soak for a few weeks. Didn't fill them
> up completely but that will be my next step if the 24-volts don't work.
>
> Any thoughts to share? Thanks.
>
> Ralph, '74 Glacier, Ringoes, NJ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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| Re: [GMCnet] 24 volts to starter? [message #93986 is a reply to message #93979] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 11:36 |
Ken Coit
Messages: 151
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I like a little more control myself. Block up the beast and crawl under with
a 1-1/8" socket to apply to the crank nut. Then you can feel what's going on
and perhaps keep from doing any more damage. Just rocking it back and forth
and letting it soak some more will be helpful.
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:03 PM, RalphEdel <edelbach@tcnj.edu> wrote:
>
>
> It was suggested that I could try hooking up 2 12-volt batteries in series
> in order to get my stuck engine to turn over. Has anyone tried that and if
> so, did it work?
>
> As long as I didn't keep the starter energized for too long, I don't think
> it would be damaged.
>
> I intend to remove all fuses and have 12-volts go to the solenoid and
> 24-volts only go to the starter and nothing else.
>
> I have already put a mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and a rust breaking
> liquid into the cylinders and let it soak for a few weeks. Didn't fill them
> up completely but that will be my next step if the 24-volts don't work.
>
> Any thoughts to share? Thanks.
>
> Ralph, '74 Glacier, Ringoes, NJ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Ken Coit, ND7N
Raleigh, NC
Parfait Royale
1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
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| Re: [GMCnet] 24 volts to starter? [message #93990 is a reply to message #93979] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 11:53 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Ralph,
You may also have valves that are stuck -- varnihs build-up on the stems.
As mentioned by others, soak and use a breaker bar for better control. It is sometimes suggested that you must be able to rotate the engine twice by bar before putting the starter to it.
Dennis Sexton
73 PD 230
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: RalphEdel <edelbach@TCNJ.EDU>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 30, 2010 11:03 am
Subject: [GMCnet] 24 volts to starter?
It was suggested that I could try hooking up 2 12-volt batteries in series in
rder to get my stuck engine to turn over. Has anyone tried that and if so, did
t work?
As long as I didn't keep the starter energized for too long, I don't think it
ould be damaged.
I intend to remove all fuses and have 12-volts go to the solenoid and 24-volts
nly go to the starter and nothing else.
I have already put a mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and a rust breaking liquid
nto the cylinders and let it soak for a few weeks. Didn't fill them up
ompletely but that will be my next step if the 24-volts don't work.
Any thoughts to share? Thanks.
Ralph, '74 Glacier, Ringoes, NJ
______________________________________________
MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: 24 volts to starter? [message #93993 is a reply to message #93979] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 12:00 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| edelbach wrote on Fri, 30 July 2010 12:03 |
It was suggested that I could try hooking up 2 12-volt batteries in series in order to get my stuck engine to turn over. Has anyone tried that and if so, did it work?
As long as I didn't keep the starter energized for too long, I don't think it would be damaged.
I intend to remove all fuses and have 12-volts go to the solenoid and 24-volts only go to the starter and nothing else.
I have already put a mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and a rust breaking liquid into the cylinders and let it soak for a few weeks. Didn't fill them up completely but that will be my next step if the 24-volts don't work.
Any thoughts to share? Thanks.
Ralph, '74 Glacier, Ringoes, NJ
|
Ralph,
You can do that, I have often used 6V starters on 12Vs because the system was being converted and have done other such things in a long time of dealing with other people's engines.
You might get the engine to turnover, but if it does it may do a great deal damage and never be a usable cylinder block - let alone a dependable engine.
I have to fight this all the time. People think that if they can get an engine to turn over, then running could not be far behind that . . .
-WRONGO-
This is the sort of thing that I deal with in yard boats all the time. If the rings are stuck in the bores (good possibility if it was stored wrong), then at least one if not more valves are also likely to be stuck open and when the moving piston closes them, it is bad. If the rings have corroded in the bores and you force them to move, the rust will carve up the cylinder walls.
As of this moment, all you know is that the crankshaft will not turn with the starter. There are numerous reasons this can happen, none are good, but some are much less expensive to repair than others. Before you do untold damage to an engine that maybe very salvageable, please, do more diagnosis.
If you feel that this path has promise, there is only one way to proceed. Remove the cylinder head covers and the rocker arms and look at the stem heights. If any do not line up with the others, it is probably a stuck open (exhaust) valve. Try tapping it with a soft hammer. It may close - they often do. Now you can remove all the spark plugs and FILL the cylinders with power steering fluid (ATF will do) and let that sit at least a day.
Next - remove the FEAD (Front Engine Accessory Drive) belts and get either a crankshaft turner (a tool that bolts on the front of the crank) or a strap wrench to put on the sheaves and try shaking the crank both ways. If you get it loose, you still are not out of the woods, but you are near a small clearing.
I take it that the engine is in a coach at this time. In that case, removing the manifolds and cylinder heads will be very doable and will reveal a great deal.
The short answer is probably -
Pull the engine, get it right and put it back. It is very seldom that someone gets in more trouble by taking more apart than was needed. Gaskets are always cheaper than castings.
I've been at this stuff a while (you might have guessed) and rather than clutter the forum, if you have other questions write me at mattcolie at gmail dot com. If you would like to voice chat, send me a number and times. I have a VOIP line so teh call is no additional cost.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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