| [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93343] |
Mon, 26 July 2010 17:45  |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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This stuff is supposedly illegal in Oklahoma.
I hadn't paid attention (meaning saved) possible sources.
Suggestions for where to purchase (and prices if possible)
will be welcome.
Thanks!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93348 is a reply to message #93346] |
Mon, 26 July 2010 18:23  |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
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Thanks, Ken Burton, Ken Henderson, and Chip.
The price at Worthington Ag Parts is $6.25 per 6 oz can,
the lowest of those referrals I have received so far.
Do I also need to get the WN-401 "Refrigerant, Duracool
Recharge Kit for R134a install kit" from Worthington Ag
Parts as well, Ken?
How about the WN71428L and WN71428H low and high side
fittings?
I am NOT experienced here, at all.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: n9cv@comcast.net
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:06:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source
>
>
>
> Worthington Ag Parts
>
> http://www.worthingtonagparts.com/Low/catalog/InvMisc.Aspx
>
> Look at the bottom of this list.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93372 is a reply to message #93349] |
Mon, 26 July 2010 19:33 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
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Didn't work here either, at least as Ken sent it.
I went to the basic http://www.worthingtonagparts.com/Low/catalog/
site, clicked on "Search by Miscellaneous Category" then selected
"Air condition, refrgerant, etc.) and got to where I needed to go.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:24:04 -0700
> From: botiemad11@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source
>
> Doesn't work Ken.
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
>>
>>
>> Worthington Ag Parts
>>
>> http://www.worthingtonagparts.com/Low/catalog/InvMisc.Aspx
>>
>> Look at the bottom of this list.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93391 is a reply to message #93348] |
Mon, 26 July 2010 21:35 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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If you are just trying to charge it and you have an old R12 charge kit you can screw a Ford wheel lug nut(1/2" sae I believe) on the Duracool can and the R12 adapter to the other side of the nut and you will be able to use the existing fittings without converting to the 134 type. Works like a champ.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93402 is a reply to message #93372] |
Mon, 26 July 2010 22:59 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| k2gkk wrote on Mon, 26 July 2010 19:33 |
Didn't work here either, at least as Ken sent it.
I went to the basic http://www.worthingtonagparts.com/Low/catalog/
site, clicked on "Search by Miscellaneous Category" then selected
"Air condition, refrgerant, etc.) and got to where I needed to go.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
|
Yes It also does not work for me.
The above recommendation by Mac is how I got there. Then I copied the URL and posted it here.
Use Mac's recommendationabove.
Ken B.
Also look at the locations of their stores. If you are near one then just go in and buy it without having it shipped.
As far as what you need to install it. Well that depends on whether you have R-12 or R-134 fittings.
I have R-134 fittings and I normally use a refill device from Walmart that has a gauge on it and a trigger for turning off and on the refrigerant. When you squeeze the trigger the refrigerant flows. When you release the trigger, the refrigerant (Duracool or R-134) stops exiting the can and the gauge works to tell you how much you have on the low side of the system. They are about $14.00 at Walmart in the automotive section near the R-134. I could not find a picture of it on line but if you can not find it, I'll stop by Walmart and get a SKU number for you.
This device will work for R-134 or Duracool. I do not know about HC12 because I have never seen a can of the stuff. I assume HC12 uses the same connector on the can. You simply screw the can of R-134 or Duracool into the bottom of the pistol grip - gauge assembly, attach the hose to the R-134 type low side fitting and squeeze.
If you have R-12 fittings, you will need a device that accepts a R-134 style can with R-12 fittings on the hose to the low side of the AC system. The last time I did one with R-12 fittings I used my AC gauges with the appropriate adapter screwed on to it.
Let me know what type of fittings you have and we will come up with a recommendation.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93464 is a reply to message #93402] |
Tue, 27 July 2010 11:53 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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No the R12 fittings are different the attachment for the small can is a slide which wouldn't be used if you used it on a 134 can you would just use the threaded fitting and screw it into the nut. Thr R12 hose outlet fits(1/4" flair)the old R12 charge connections on the motorhome. If you use the 134 charge unit you need to add the 134 adapters to the motor home charge fittings.
Either way will work but I would rather not convert to the 134 adapters for me the quick connect seems to leak more readily when charging. Just my observations.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93590 is a reply to message #93464] |
Wed, 28 July 2010 02:13 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| roy1 wrote on Tue, 27 July 2010 11:53 |
No the R12 fittings are different the attachment for the small can is a slide which wouldn't be used if you used it on a 134 can you would just use the threaded fitting and screw it into the nut. Thr R12 hose outlet fits(1/4" flair)the old R12 charge connections on the motorhome. If you use the 134 charge unit you need to add the 134 adapters to the motor home charge fittings.
Either way will work but I would rather not convert to the 134 adapters for me the quick connect seems to leak more readily when charging. Just my observations.
Roy
|
I have adapters for my gauge set that will accept any of the above required connection combinations.
The question is what connector types are currently on the coach so we can make a recommendation as to what is needed.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93619 is a reply to message #93595] |
Wed, 28 July 2010 09:42 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| mcolie wrote on Wed, 28 July 2010 07:11 |
| roy1 wrote on Tue, 27 July 2010 12:53 |
No the R12 fittings are different the attachment for the small can is a slide which wouldn't be used if you used it on a 134 can you would just use the threaded fitting and screw it into the nut. The R12 hose outlet fits(1/4" flair)the old R12 charge connections on the motorhome. If you use the 134 charge unit you need to add the 134 adapters to the motor home charge fittings.
Either way will work but I would rather not convert to the 134 adapters for me the quick connect seems to leak more readily when charging. Just my observations.
Roy
|
Roy,
All you actually need is a NAPA NTE 783199 and a R-134a tapper. Yes, the r-12 cans were different and that is not a simple adaptation. The listed part number will let you connect you R-12 manifold to the R-134a/HC-12a can tapper and you are on your way. (Can you tell someone messes with this stuff all the time?)
Matt
|
Matt,
Mac is the one that originally asked the questions. I am waiting for his answer as to what he has on the coach before I make a recommendation. It sounds like he does not have a pressure gauge or gauges. Based on his answer we can come up with what he needs without a lot of excess stuff. He originally asked about some of the adapters / fittlings that Worthington and Duracool sell.
What Roy is up to I'm not sure.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93623 is a reply to message #93348] |
Wed, 28 July 2010 10:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| k2gkk wrote on Mon, 26 July 2010 18:23 |
Thanks, Ken Burton, Ken Henderson, and Chip.
The price at Worthington Ag Parts is $6.25 per 6 oz can,
the lowest of those referrals I have received so far.
Do I also need to get the WN-401 "Refrigerant, Duracool
Recharge Kit for R134a install kit" from Worthington Ag
Parts as well, Ken?
How about the WN71428L and WN71428H low and high side
fittings?
I am NOT experienced here, at all.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> From: n9cv@comcast.net
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:06:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source
>
>
>
> Worthington Ag Parts
>
> http://www.worthingtonagparts.com/Low/catalog/InvMisc.Aspx
>
> Look at the bottom of this list.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
|
Let me try to answer you questions on WN71428L and WN71428H
These two items are adapters that you screw on to existing R-12 fittings so you can attach R-134 style charging and monitoring hoses. If you still have R-12 style fittings then I would suggest that you need both of these. They will stay on the coach when you are done.
You can also buy these two fittings at WalMart or AutoZone and probably save a few dollars. They usually come in a bubble pack kit for $5.00 or $6.00. The kit includes both of them.
Once that kit, or the two Worthington adapters, are installed, you can use any R-134 charging hose. I recommended the charging hose with gauge from Walmart to charge your system with Duracool.
The WN401 from Worthington is way over priced in my opinion. Go to Walmart and get the hose with gauge assembly that I recommended for around $15.00 instead.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93624 is a reply to message #93619] |
Wed, 28 July 2010 10:11 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I'm pretty sure that my GMC is likely still R-12. There
appears to be some collision damage to the condenser and
nothing works, not even high fan.
I'm actually asking for two applications, the 76 coach
AND my Tundra fridge which IS R-134.
I don't have any gauges, but at one time did have the
capability to put R-12 into my long-gone 64 1/2 Mustang.
I doubt that I could find that hose/fitting in my
extremely cluttered garage now.
As I believe I have previously written, my days of "serious"
work on a vehicle was last on a 1950 Ford flathead convertible!
My main question was what I need to buy from Worthington
to accomplish both tasks.
Actually, since my wife's '02 Explorer A/C has become pretty
lame, I'd like to try the Dura-Cool there, also. That, of
course is a R-134 system.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Hamcall-K2GKK ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: n9cv@comcast.net
> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:42:14 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source
>
>
>
> mcolie wrote on Wed, 28 July 2010 07:11
>>
>> roy1 wrote on Tue, 27 July 2010 12:53
>>> No the R12 fittings are different the attachment for the small can is a slide which wouldn't be used if you used it on a 134 can you would just use the threaded fitting and screw it into the nut. The R12 hose outlet fits(1/4" flair)the old R12 charge connections on the motorhome. If you use the 134 charge unit you need to add the 134 adapters to the motor home charge fittings.
>>> Either way will work but I would rather not convert to the 134 adapters for me the quick connect seems to leak more readily when charging. Just my observations.
>>> Roy
>>
>> Roy,
>>
>> All you actually need is a NAPA NTE 783199 and a R-134a tapper. Yes, the r-12 cans were different and that is not a simple adaptation. The listed part number will let you connect you R-12 manifold to the R-134a/HC-12a can tapper and you are on your way. (Can you tell someone messes with this stuff all the time?)
>>
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Matt,
>
> Mac is the one that originally asked the questions. I am waiting for his answer as to what he has on the coach before I make a recommendation. It sounds like he does not have a pressure gauge or gauges. Based on his answer we can come up with what he needs without a lot of excess stuff. He originally asked about some of the adapters / fittings that Worthington and Duracool sell.
>
> What Roy is up to I'm not sure.
>
> Ken B.
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93714 is a reply to message #93619] |
Wed, 28 July 2010 21:16 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken
I was just offering a simple solution if one doesn't want to convert to 134 fitting adapters. I chose to leave my existing R12 fittings as is. I have the necessary equipment to charge either R12 or 134 but I prefer to just use the existing fittings with out adding a potential leak(piggy back adapters). Typically when using a 134 or Duracool can you would need to convert to the 134 adapters. I was just saying if you had an old R12 charge kit all you would need was a 1/2" nut to convert it to screw onto the 134 or Duracool can then the charge hose would fit the old motor home fitting with out making the 134 adapter conversion.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93743 is a reply to message #93367] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 00:06 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Well, I decided to install Duracool after work today. First of all, I couldn't find my outlet temperature gage meant just for this. So, I used my laser scanner which I realize is far from optimum for this. Regardless at 104 ambient, my existing 134 charge gave me a consistant 67F outlet temp which I always felt was pretty cold. I bled the system down to the point of 0 psi and started to charge with Duracool. I installed it very slowly and the system didn't start to cool till about 30 psi on the low side--much higher than what I've read. I kept measuring the outlet temps in small increments and it started to warm up as I inched up on 35 psi. Then i bled it back down to 30 psi. Regardless at 30 psi, it was at it's coldest at 54f outlet and that's 13f colder than the 134 charge. At this point I can only use it at a comparative point--13f colder. That's not bad, but I'm thinking maybe my reciever dryer may need to be replaced. My high side at best outlet temp was a bit over 200psi. Again, the laser temp senser was not a good way to read the temps, but the difference is pretty impressive. I'm still thinking I can do better.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93745 is a reply to message #93714] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 00:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| roy1 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2010 21:16 |
Ken
I was just offering a simple solution if one doesn't want to convert to 134 fitting adapters. I chose to leave my existing R12 fittings as is. I have the necessary equipment to charge either R12 or 134 but I prefer to just use the existing fittings with out adding a potential leak(piggy back adapters). Typically when using a 134 or Duracool can you would need to convert to the 134 adapters. I was just saying if you had an old R12 charge kit all you would need was a 1/2" nut to convert it to screw onto the 134 or Duracool can then the charge hose would fit the old motor home fitting with out making the 134 adapter conversion.
Roy
|
OK. Now I understand. I was getting confused on who was asking for what help.
Thanks
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93833 is a reply to message #93743] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 12:46 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Bob;
I would say that your filter dryer is not restricted. If it were your discharge would probably be even higher. I assume you are checking it at 1500 RPM. Keep in mind at 104 deg. with the coach not moving there might not be a lot of air moving over the condenser coil. If the liquid line is too hot to touch a fine spray of a garden hose on the condenser will likely bring down those pressures. I am presently running Duracool in mine and have found it can be so cold the coil starts to ice a 2nd evaporator sure would be nice as it would bump the low side pressure up some. I think you are where you should be considering the ambient temperature if the liquid line is real hot you just aren't moving enough air over the condenser.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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