Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia
| [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #90657] |
Thu, 01 July 2010 10:10  |
Tom Crook
Messages: 4
Registered: March 2004
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Thanks to Paragon Motor Club and Jim Bounds I am now on my way to Inland Truck for a motor replacement. I am (was) running a fairly new Jasper engine, set up by Jim. I have no idea what happened except that I changed over to synthetic motor oil (Royal Purple 10w-40) before I left Tennessee. It was a catastrophic failure and I think the block is gone as well.
Oh well, another adventure in my GMC. 10 years and this is the first time I have been stranded, not too bad considering.
Tom
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #90661 is a reply to message #90657] |
Thu, 01 July 2010 10:27  |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Tom,
Thanks for the update.. Please come back with "the rest of the story" when you know more. We would all benefit from knowing what may have caused such a failure as well as from knowing how well the motor replacement goes.
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Crook <tc@cfe.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 10:10 am
Subject: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia
Thanks to Paragon Motor Club and Jim Bounds I am now on my way to Inland Truck
or a motor replacement. I am (was) running a fairly new Jasper engine, set up
y Jim. I have no idea what happened except that I changed over to synthetic
otor oil (Royal Purple 10w-40) before I left Tennessee. It was a catastrophic
ailure and I think the block is gone as well.
Oh well, another adventure in my GMC. 10 years and this is the first time I
ave been stranded, not too bad considering.
Tom
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #90751 is a reply to message #90657] |
Thu, 01 July 2010 19:48 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Tom,
Be sure to let us know details of Inland Truck, like their GMC experience,
whether they have the GMC-unique tools needed (like the engine gantry), etc.
If they do well by you, we need to add them to the support list at bdub.net
Ken H.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Tom Crook <tc@cfe.com> wrote:
> Thanks to Paragon Motor Club and Jim Bounds I am now on my way to Inland
> Truck for a motor replacement. I am (was) running a fairly new Jasper
> engine, set up by Jim. I have no idea what happened except that I changed
> over to synthetic motor oil (Royal Purple 10w-40) before I left Tennessee.
> It was a catastrophic failure and I think the block is gone as well.
>
> Oh well, another adventure in my GMC. 10 years and this is the first time
> I have been stranded, not too bad considering.
>
> Tom
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #91040 is a reply to message #90751] |
Sun, 04 July 2010 07:21 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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Senior Member |
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Inland Truck came highly recommended by folks I contacted in the area, I rely on finding shops like this from experiences of other GMC owners and these folks had done work on our coach before. I called and talked with them at length before getting them with Tom. We will be working closely with them, they welcomed the input (sometimes shops will not listen) and I had a good feeling about their ability. We'll see but everything will be done to assist them with the project.
The new motor will be a roller cam design, we have had good feedback after the motors are in, set up and broken in. We did have some issues on a few motors on initial breakin and there were some mistakes made which showed up right away. Responsibility was taken but more than that, things were learned and our motor design grew from that discovery. I am not one to hide issues, thats how you learn. Today, with over 68 motors on the road, after the initial install and breaking, I feel Tom will have the best of the best. This will be the 2nd motor from a new nationwide performance builder supplier we are working with. We have learned more things about the 455 motor and now this latest greatest design I feel will be even more tailored for the GMC and should be more reliable-- I know the integrity of the build and the parts will be, our builders a most interested in putting together a motor that will stay together. We will dyno the motor
before it leaves for Tom;s coach so we will know it's pedigree, will be the same basic design as Neil's but with a few refinements.-- it's never looked on as a good thing to lunch a motor but we'll work hard to make Tom;s coach fix better than it ever was.
I too am most interested in what will be learned in the old motor teardown-- as I said, this is how we learn things. Will be working closely with them on that.
----- Original Message ----
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 8:48:14 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia
Tom,
Be sure to let us know details of Inland Truck, like their GMC experience,
whether they have the GMC-unique tools needed (like the engine gantry), etc.
If they do well by you, we need to add them to the support list at bdub.net
Ken H.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Tom Crook <tc@cfe.com> wrote:
> Thanks to Paragon Motor Club and Jim Bounds I am now on my way to Inland
> Truck for a motor replacement. I am (was) running a fairly new Jasper
> engine, set up by Jim. I have no idea what happened except that I changed
> over to synthetic motor oil (Royal Purple 10w-40) before I left Tennessee.
> It was a catastrophic failure and I think the block is gone as well.
>
> Oh well, another adventure in my GMC. 10 years and this is the first time
> I have been stranded, not too bad considering.
>
> Tom
>
>
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #91074 is a reply to message #91059] |
Sun, 04 July 2010 15:16 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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My experience says the early oil change is a good idea after ANY major
change in oil. As an example: I had a USAF major with a PhD in Physics
working for me in Ohio. He drove a 10 year old Chevy wagon with 275,000+
miles on it. He serviced it religiously, changing the Quaker State oil
every 3000 miles.
One day he called me in a distraught state: "I got the oil changed in my
wagon and after a couple of hundred miles, the stuff on the stick looks like
thick gooey tar! What's wrong? Has my engine failed?...?"
My suggestions weren't very reassuring because I didn't expect such
longevity from a '65 anyway. I kind of figured the rings were so far gone
that blow by was really polluting the oil.
After the weekend, he came in all relieved: "They put something besides
Quaker State oil in the engine. I changed back to QS and put a couple of
hundred miles on the car this weekend and the oil's nice and clean again!"
He was still happily driving that car two years later when I transferred.
While I don't use QS, I still believe in sticking to one brand as much as
possible and being cautious if I do change.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 2:42 PM, MICHAEL FOSTER <mfoster356@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "after changing to synthetic on an older motor you need to change the oil
> and filter at 500 to 1000 miles. This is because the synthetic has a high
> detergent affect and will dissolve sludge and solids in the system. Failure
> to do so could lead to a catestrophic type failure."
> ...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #91098 is a reply to message #91074] |
Sun, 04 July 2010 20:11 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Back in the day - mid-late 1960's, I worked at my uncles taxi cab garage.
He had 32 cabs which every Saturday I changed oil and filter on 16 of them.
We used Quaker State Super Blend and Purolator filters. These cars (Dodge
Coronets w 225ci. slant six engines) averaged 1,300-1,500 miles per week.
That's miles on the odo - now add the fact that most taxi's engines ran
20-24 hours a day and a lot of the time it was running at idle at a taxi
stand - running the AC in summer and heat in winter. When it came time to
swap engines I loved to pull them apart. Everything that had metal to
metal contact looked like polished chrome. In the oil pan, valve cover and
even in the timing case there was a light grey silt type sludge. No heavy
tar build up.
One day a guy came in from one of the local oil refineries in Newark, NJ.
Shell, Hess, Esso (at the time) and Mobil were all located in Newark. He
never said what company he worked for but, made an offer to my uncle that
they would guarantee five taxi cabs engines if we let him use his secret
synthetic motor oil in the taxis. The oil came in gallon cans with a
generic looking blue label that read "Enduralube". I drained the oil and he
provided a plain wrapper filter and five quarts of Enduralube for each
vehicle. Our instructions were not to add anything but Enduralube if the
dip stick read low. He came by every two weeks - that's how we scheduled
the oil changes on the Enduro cars as we called them, he would change the
filter add one quart of Endurolube and be on his way taking the filter with
him. We never did a complete oil change - remove filter add quart and that
was it. Until, the oil pick up screens started to clog with - yes the grey
sludge/ Two engines went south. They took the two engines and replaced
them. Came back a week later and pulled the three remaining engines and
replaced them.
He never told us what they found, but on the brand new engines we did the
same process. They stopped the testing after some 300.000 odo miles. We
normally replaced the QS engines at about 125,000 odo miles.
I have used QS for close to 40 years and only recently change to synthetic
on my own cars. When switching to syn oils I use racing filters and changed
the oil at 500 and then again at 1,500. Then went to standard filters.
JWID,
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> My experience says the early oil change is a good idea after ANY major
> change in oil. As an example: I had a USAF major with a PhD in Physics
> working for me in Ohio. He drove a 10 year old Chevy wagon with 275,000+
> miles on it. He serviced it religiously, changing the Quaker State oil
> every 3000 miles.
>
> One day he called me in a distraught state: "I got the oil changed in my
> wagon and after a couple of hundred miles, the stuff on the stick looks
> like
> thick gooey tar! What's wrong? Has my engine failed?...?"
>
> My suggestions weren't very reassuring because I didn't expect such
> longevity from a '65 anyway. I kind of figured the rings were so far gone
> that blow by was really polluting the oil.
>
> After the weekend, he came in all relieved: "They put something besides
> Quaker State oil in the engine. I changed back to QS and put a couple of
> hundred miles on the car this weekend and the oil's nice and clean again!"
>
> He was still happily driving that car two years later when I transferred.
>
> While I don't use QS, I still believe in sticking to one brand as much as
> possible and being cautious if I do change.
>
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 2:42 PM, MICHAEL FOSTER <mfoster356@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> > "after changing to synthetic on an older motor you need to change the
> oil
> > and filter at 500 to 1000 miles. This is because the synthetic has a
> high
> > detergent affect and will dissolve sludge and solids in the system.
> Failure
> > to do so could lead to a catestrophic type failure."
> > ...
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #96419 is a reply to message #96409] |
Thu, 19 August 2010 11:32 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Thu, 19 August 2010 10:58 |
| Tom Crook wrote on Thu, 01 July 2010 10:10 |
Thanks to Paragon Motor Club and Jim Bounds I am now on my way to Inland Truck for a motor replacement. I am (was) running a fairly new Jasper engine, set up by Jim. I have no idea what happened except that I changed over to synthetic motor oil (Royal Purple 10w-40) before I left Tennessee. It was a catastrophic failure and I think the block is gone as well.
Oh well, another adventure in my GMC. 10 years and this is the first time I have been stranded, not too bad considering.
Tom
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Its been 6 weeks now. What ever happened? I hope you have your new engine and are on your way by now. Just checking. Let us know when you have time.
Dan
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why was there all this discussion about changing oil and sludge clogging up the engine? this was a "fairly new Jasper engine".
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #96425 is a reply to message #96419] |
Thu, 19 August 2010 11:50 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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-----Original Message-----
From: fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, Aug 19, 2010 11:32 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia
Its been 6 weeks now. What ever happened? I hope you have your new engine and
re on your way by now. Just checking. Let us know when you have time.
Dan
why was there all this discussion about changing oil and sludge clogging up the
ngine? this was a "fairly new Jasper engine".
--
red V
77 Royale RB 455
'cola, Fl
______________________________________________
Fred,
As often happens -- someone got off on theories of changing oil types and the affects of sludge clean-out and such -- only marginally related to the original topic.
Dennis Sexton
73 PD 230
Germantown, TN
USA
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #96468 is a reply to message #96425] |
Thu, 19 August 2010 22:05 |
LarryInSanDiego
Messages: 336
Registered: September 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Two of the things I've learned:
If a rod bearing goes, carefully look at the oil passage in that crank throw. It'll often be clogged, often the result of the oil filter clogging up. The filter bypass valve will open, and whatever crap the filter captured and held, now goes around the filter and continues through the system unemcumbered. Guess what's now the narrowest passage in the lube circuit? Yep, it's no longer filter media, but now it's the rod bearing clearance space. Plus it gets flung out harder than if it stayed in the main journal, so trash ends up in a traffic jam right at the rod journal/bearing interface.
Now that oil is restricted, it can no longer cool the journal and bearing as well as it once did. If you find the crank throw and rod big end blued, it can only be because it got really hot. Therefore, infrequent oil changes can result in rod knock.
Which brings us to what clogged the filter in the first place. If it's sludge (often caused by water not quite evaporating completely out of oil - ever wonder what butter is made of? Basically water and oil.), the engine likely didn't warm up completely. Frequent short local trips is one cause. 160* thermostats can be a contributing factor. How can water absorbed in oil quickly get out unless it's at a temperature close to it's boiling point?
There are other causes of course, but the combination of the above two are not that uncommon. I'd rather run an engine closer to 200* and just make sure I have an excellent cooling system than try to use a 160* thermostat as a crutch.
Larry Engelbrecht
San Diego, CA
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 03/07/73
[Updated on: Thu, 19 August 2010 22:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blown Engine in Columbia [message #96471 is a reply to message #96468] |
Thu, 19 August 2010 22:20 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Back in the late 1960's when Dow Corning was first making silicone and
packaging it for "Industrial Use Only" plain label packages many tubes
made it to the oval track engine builders. Many engines were starved for
oil and fried the bearings. Bits of silicone were found all over.
Originally the motor guys would put the silicone on pretty heavy and then
would torque the assemblies one time. The silicone would squeeze out break
off and get sucked into the oil pump.
It didn't take long to use the silicone as a make-a gasket. Apply the
silicone - partially set the assemblies to set the silicone like a gasket.
Then tighten - after the silicone sets up.
Now you know - the rest of the story!
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
Two of the things I've learned:
If a rod bearing goes, carefully look at the oil passage in that crank
throw. It'll often be clogged, often the result of the oil filter clogging
up. The filter bypass valve will open, and whatever crap clogged the filter
continues through the system. Guess what's now the narrowest passage in the
lube circuit? Yep, it's no longer filter media, but now it's the rod bearing
clearance space. Plus it gets flung out harder than if it stayed in the main
journal, so it ends at the rod journal/bearing interface.
Now that oil is restricted, it can't cool the journaland baering. If you
find the crank throw and rod big end blued, it can only be because it got
really hot. Therefore, infrequent oil changes can result in rod knock.
Which brings us to what clogged the filter in the first place. If it's
sludge (often caused by water not quite evaporating completely out of oil -
ever wonder what butter is made of? Basically water and oil.), the engine
likely didn't warm up completely. Frequent short local trips is one cause.
160* thermostats can be another. How can water absorbed in oil quickly get
out unless it's at a temperature close to it's boiling point?
There are other causes, but the combination of the above two are not that
incommon.
--
Larry Engelbrecht
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 030773
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