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| clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #89445] |
Mon, 21 June 2010 18:35  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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I bought a complete Felpro gasket kit for the Revcon from a chain store. Then i acquired a turkey trey from another GMCer.
So the Felpro gasket is a felt/paper-like thing with a bead of rubber around the openings and the turkey trey is just stamped metal.
I'm leaning toward leaving everything the way it was and installing the turkey tray but I'm puzzled about how it forms a proper seal with just pressed metal.
I'd be grateful for some education
Thanks
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #89455 is a reply to message #89446] |
Mon, 21 June 2010 21:08  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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| mcolie wrote on Mon, 21 June 2010 18:51 |
I'm not at all sure I knew what your concern is here.
Matt
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How does the un-coated pressed tin form a good seal compared to the composite material of the Felpro gasket?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #89457 is a reply to message #89450] |
Mon, 21 June 2010 21:15 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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You can use some sealant on the 4 water passages as a back up.
The stamped metal will maintain enough tensile strength to maintain a good
seal.
There are 4 open/dimple holes that need to be finger pressed down to fit
well.
We always do a trial fit first before we smear any sealant on the water
passage area.
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> What Matt said. And, pitch the front and rear gaskets. RTV there, both
> sides,intake and engine, let set up a little while and slap it on.
> dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
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| Re: clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #89467 is a reply to message #89455] |
Mon, 21 June 2010 22:29 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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| hertfordnc wrote on Mon, 21 June 2010 22:08 |
| mcolie wrote on Mon, 21 June 2010 18:51 |
I'm not at all sure I knew what your concern is here.
Matt
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How does the un-coated pressed tin form a good seal compared to the composite material of the Felpro gasket?
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Not even close.
Dry embossed steel is a pretty poor gasket, but most were sold with at least a coating that deforms enough to effect a "micro-seal" that will prevent coolant leakage. Embossed steel gaskets that have to do any liquid seal are better off getting some sort of coating. Even still, embossed steel really only worked well between to heavy castings with lots of bolts. They just don't have the compliance to deal with even normal thermal cycling.
If you have the Fel-Pro side gaskets, use them alone in the head/manifold joint. If you have blocked off the cross-over, leave the metal out. If you do not want to block the cross-over, take a pair of shears and cut the pan so it fits without interfering with the essential sealing areas, and drill a 1/4~3/8 drain hole in the bottom. (You now have the kit I put in the McCord Catalog for all the GM, Mopar and Ford BB engines.)
Fel-Pro is now the aftermarket label for what used to be four different gasket companies, so I don't know what material that is. I can assure you it will have some initial creep (relaxation under load). So, I will suggest that you set the manifold and tension the fasteners in in four rounds to final and let it sit (over night at least) and then do another pass at final torque. This way the creep works for you.
Good Luck,
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91241 is a reply to message #91239] |
Tue, 06 July 2010 09:29 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
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Ken,
A little unclear about what you say has happened -- but if you have coolant on top of the manifold it may be coming from the upper radiator hose or the thermostat housing.
Dennis
| Ken Coit wrote on Tue, 06 July 2010 08:58 |
Why does this sound like something I did wrong and must do over? Maybe it
is those little green puddles on the intake manifold? I have drained the
coolant down below the manifold and will try again. Grrrrrrr.
Thanks for all the free and invaluable advice.
--
Ken Coit, ND7N
Raleigh, NC
Parfait Royale
1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91266 is a reply to message #91241] |
Tue, 06 July 2010 12:52 |
Ken Coit
Messages: 151
Registered: November 2005
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Hi Dennis,
There is definitely coolant on the top of the intake manifold next to the
thermostat housing. I will address that.
There is also coolant weeping up between the intake and the head on the
passengers side near #6 an 8 cylinders. I am afraid I am going to have to
pull the intake manifold to fix that, but I am going to re-torgue the bolts
first.
On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Dennis Sexton <dennisfsexton@aol.com>wrote:
>
>
> Ken,
> A little unclear about what you say has happened -- but if you have coolant
> on top of the manifold it may be coming from the upper radiator hose or the
> thermostat housing.
>
> Dennis
>
> Ken Coit wrote on Tue, 06 July 2010 08:58
> > Why does this sound like something I did wrong and must do over? Maybe
> it
> > is those little green puddles on the intake manifold? I have drained the
> > coolant down below the manifold and will try again. Grrrrrrr.
> >
> > Thanks for all the free and invaluable advice.
> > --
> > Ken Coit, ND7N
> > Raleigh, NC
> > Parfait Royale
> > 1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> --
> Dennis Sexton
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
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--
Ken Coit, ND7N
Raleigh, NC
Parfait Royale
1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91304 is a reply to message #91266] |
Tue, 06 July 2010 18:01 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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On the front leak, put some sealant on the bolt threads that hold the thermostat housing in place. The ends of those bolts go through the manifold and into the water passage area.
On the leak between 6 and 8, Did you check the heater hose connection on the rear of the manifold. I would check where it screws into the manifold and the actual hose connection. Did you replace the heater hose and use the right diameter hose?
My only guess after that is to re-torque the manifold.
This is one of those times I wish I had a radiator pressure tester. Pump it up (cold) and look for the leak. I keep looking for a cheap one on ebay.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91306 is a reply to message #91304] |
Tue, 06 July 2010 18:15 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 06 July 2010 18:01 |
This is one of those times I wish I had a radiator pressure tester. Pump it up (cold) and look for the leak. I keep looking for a cheap one on ebay.
|
I found mine on Craigslist, $30.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91360 is a reply to message #91315] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 02:57 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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| Ken Coit wrote on Tue, 06 July 2010 20:00 |
Thanks Ken.
I will take your advice on the the housing bolts and torque the intake
again. I can see that it is weeping between the intake and the head.
I knew there was another tool I needed.............
--
Ken Coit, ND7N
Raleigh, NC
Parfait Royale
1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
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If it is oozing out the top, it also could be oozing into the oil also. I would check the oil after running it a short time. I really think after torquing if it stops, it is time to get the cooling system pressure tested. 10 PSI would be enough.
I have watched a couple of those go for $60.00 on ebay. I'm still looking for a cheaper one. I guess I'll have to start looking on Craig's list.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91372 is a reply to message #91360] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 07:28 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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After Wally's and other's testing, I don't think 10 psi would be enough. We
now know that the pressure within the block can exceed that in the radiator
-- 25 psi+.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> If it is oozing out the top, it also could be oozing into the oil also. I
> would check the oil after running it a short time. I really think after
> torquing if it stops, it is time to get the cooling system pressure tested.
> 10 PSI would be enough.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91380 is a reply to message #91360] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 09:07 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 07 July 2010 02:57 |
I have watched a couple of those go for $60.00 on ebay. I'm still looking for a cheaper one. I guess I'll have to start looking on Craig's list.
|
Of course there is no free lunch. For the $30 cooling pressure tester I had to drive about 90 miles round trip. So that probably pushed my true cost very close to the $60 ebay price.
Side benefit I can't get from an ebay purchase, the tester pickup location was in my family's home town so I got in a side trip to visit all the relatives in the family plots and check out our future long term location.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91383 is a reply to message #91380] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 09:38 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Southworth <midlf@centurytel.net>
ide benefit I can't get from an ebay purchase, the tester pickup location was
n my family's home town so I got in a side trip to visit all the relatives in
he family plots and check out our future long term location.
--
teve Southworth
974 Glacier TZE064V100150
almyra WI
______________________________________________
So Steve,
Was there room to "take it all with you" :)
Dennis
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91391 is a reply to message #91383] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 10:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Are you implying that his plan may be like mine? I've been asked several
times if my GMC is for sale. My reply is always, "No, if the hole don't
cost too much, they'll probably bury me in it. "
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:38 AM, <dennisfsexton@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Southworth <midlf@centurytel.net>
>
> ... I got in a side trip to visit all the relatives in
> he family plots and check out our future long term location.
> --
> teve Southworth
> 974 Glacier TZE064V100150
> almyra WI
> ______________________________________________
> So Steve,
> Was there room to "take it all with you" :)
> Dennis
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91397 is a reply to message #91391] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 10:51 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Good one..
Perhaps we might call it IAIO -- "inordinate attachment to inanimate object"
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, Jul 7, 2010 10:09 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets
Are you implying that his plan may be like mine? I've been asked several
imes if my GMC is for sale. My reply is always, "No, if the hole don't
ost too much, they'll probably bury me in it. "
Ken H.
n Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:38 AM, <dennisfsexton@aol.com> wrote:
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Southworth <midlf@centurytel.net>
... I got in a side trip to visit all the relatives in
he family plots and check out our future long term location.
--
teve Southworth
974 Glacier TZE064V100150
almyra WI
______________________________________________
So Steve,
Was there room to "take it all with you" :)
Dennis
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MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
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_______________________________________________
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91409 is a reply to message #91391] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 13:19 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 07 July 2010 10:09 |
Are you implying that his plan may be like mine? I've been asked several
times if my GMC is for sale. My reply is always, "No, if the hole don't
cost too much, they'll probably bury me in it. "
Ken H.
|
No - according to the CFO my final internment will be in the 75 Vette. Doesn't cost as much to dig the hole and I bought it new.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] clueless about intake manifold gaskets [message #91420 is a reply to message #91266] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 15:01 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Coit wrote on Tue, 06 July 2010 13:52 |
Hi Dennis,
There is definitely coolant on the top of the intake manifold next to the thermostat housing. I will address that.
There is also coolant weeping up between the intake and the head on the passengers side near #6 an 8 cylinders. I am afraid I am going to have to pull the intake manifold to fix that, but I am going to re-torgue the bolts first.
--
Ken Coit, ND7N
|
Ken,
I carefully stayed out of this because I am no expert on the 455 engine.
BUT - after I looked through the books, and confirmed what I was thinking, I am more than a little worried about your leak between #6 & 8 at the head/intake joint. There does not appear to be any local coolant passage there. About the only leak path that could make sense would be if the manifold bolt hole was drilled into the jacket of the cylinder head. Or, there could be a defect in the casting that allows coolant to enter the bolt boss in the head. This defect would not be bad enough to scrap the head.
If that is the case, reestablishing the torque may be no help. you will have to drain the coolant down below the top of the cylinder block and remove that fastener and coat it with a sealant. (The white teflon thread sealant is a good choice.)
I would suggest that when that is complete and you have confirmed that the weep seems to have ceased, then change the oil. It almost certainly leaked down as well as up. Glycol is real bad for bearings, even in very small quantities.
Good Luck
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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