Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Engine oil cooler lines
| Engine oil cooler lines [message #87288] |
Fri, 04 June 2010 14:11  |
Wander Inn
Messages: 100
Registered: January 2010
Location: Phoenix Az.
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Engine oil to the cooler, In the bottom out the top
or in the top out the bottom. Why? thanks
Mike
Mike & Chris Hughes
1977 Kingsley
Phoenix, Az.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler lines [message #87327 is a reply to message #87321] |
Fri, 04 June 2010 20:53  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Mike,
Are you sure, I was thinking that they ran the oil into the top of the oil
cooler in the radiator so that the return trip would be "downhill" which
would speed up the flow and enable the oil to remove more heat from the
engine? <VBG> ;-)
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
As a dear friend used to say, "It don't make no never mind." (While I never
really was sure what it meant, I always took it to mean that the issue was
not of much consequence.)
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Engine oil cooler lines [message #87340 is a reply to message #87321] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 01:15 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| mcolie wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 17:52 |
| Wander Inn wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 15:11 |
Engine oil to the cooler, In the bottom out the top
or in the top out the bottom. Why? thanks
Mike
|
Mike,
Engine radiators go in to top because that is where the hot coolant (of a passcar motor) comes out. They are also arranged that way so the cap can be an air vent for the system.
Matt
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Years ago, there was no water pump on many engines. They ran on the thermosyphon principle. Hot water rises and cool falls, so it rose in the engine and fell as it cooled in the radiator. John Deere had no water pump on some models through the early 50s, even their first diesel, but under the high pressure of the pump it probably does not matter.
If I had designed the oil cooler it would be hot in the top and cooler out the bottom.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: Engine oil cooler lines [message #87354 is a reply to message #87288] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 07:27 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
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| Wander Inn wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 15:11 |
Engine oil to the cooler, In the bottom out the top
or in the top out the bottom. Why? thanks
Mike
|
Mike,
All of the heat exchangers I have ever seen, the flow goes in the bottom and out the top. This eliminates any air pockets in the system. Personally I wouldn't do it any other way.
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler lines [message #87365 is a reply to message #87354] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 10:24 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Gene,
I think you're talking about the pump, not the heat exchanger. More
coffee please!
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Gene Dotson <shawnee@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
> Wander Inn wrote on Fri, 04 June 2010 15:11
>> Engine oil to the cooler, In the bottom out the top
>> or in the top out the bottom. Why? thanks
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> Mike,
>
> All of the heat exchangers I have ever seen, the flow goes in the bottom and out the top. This eliminates any air pockets in the system. Personally I wouldn't do it any other way.
> --
> Gene Dotson
> 74 Canyonlands
> www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler lines [message #87369 is a reply to message #87365] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 10:39 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:24 AM, Steven Ferguson wrote:
> Gene,
> I think you're talking about the pump, not the heat exchanger. More
> coffee please!
>
> On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Gene Dotson <shawnee@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> All of the heat exchangers I have ever seen, the flow goes in the bottom and out the top. This eliminates any air pockets in the system. Personally I wouldn't do it any other way.
>> --
>> Gene Dotson
>> 74 Canyonlands
>> www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
>
Sure sounds to me that he is speaking about heat exchangers, not pumps.
As a Chemical Engineer, Gene is talking about industrial heat exchangers used in Chemical plants and power plants.
A radiator is a heat exchanger.
However automotive radiators go into the top and out the bottom. That is because a low radiator would cause the pump to suck air if it were drawing from the top of a radiator that is low on coolant.
The transmission cooler and the oil cooler that are built into the GMC radiator are also heat exchangers and Genes message would apply to those.
However, GM fed them to the top and out the bottom. Probably because the radiator coolant is cooler at the right bottom. With their design it really doesn't matter how they are fed because they can't trap air as there are no passages that would cause a trap.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler lines [message #87393 is a reply to message #87365] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 13:54 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
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Steve,
I was talking about the oil and transmission coolers. There is no advantage to going from top to bottom on the coolers and could possibly have a disadvantage. When you feed from the bottom you are always sure the cooler is completely full, feed from the top then probably it will be. I like to know for sure, not probably. The radiator has a vent on top of the radiator (radiator cap) that vents off any entrapped air so there it doesn't make any difference. The radiator, coolers, A/C condenser, evaporator, heater are all heat exchangers as well as the water heater if you use engine coolant to heat it. It could still be possible for entrapped air in the coolers depending on the flow rate through the coolers. If it is very high flow it could be OK, if not you reduce the efficiency of the cooler. So why take the chance?
In the original radiator and coolers possibly it might not make a difference. In the Aluminum radiator which has larger and wider coolers I would not take the chance on filling the cooler from the top.
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler lines [message #87457 is a reply to message #87393] |
Sat, 05 June 2010 20:32 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Thanks Gene and Emery.
Guess I'll go have that coffee now.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Gene Dotson <shawnee@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
> Steve,
>
> I was talking about the oil and transmission coolers. There is no advantage to going from top to bottom on the coolers and could possibly have a disadvantage. When you feed from the bottom you are always sure the cooler is completely full, feed from the top then probably it will be. I like to know for sure, not probably. The radiator has a vent on top of the radiator (radiator cap) that vents off any entrapped air so there it doesn't make any difference. The radiator, coolers, A/C condenser, evaporator, heater are all heat exchangers as well as the water heater if you use engine coolant to heat it. It could still be possible for entrapped air in the coolers depending on the flow rate through the coolers. If it is very high flow it could be OK, if not you reduce the efficiency of the cooler. So why take the chance?
>
> In the original radiator and coolers possibly it might not make a difference. In the Aluminum radiator which has larger and wider coolers I would not take the chance on filling the cooler from the top.
> --
> Gene Dotson
> 74 Canyonlands
> www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: Engine oil cooler lines [message #87552 is a reply to message #87519] |
Sun, 06 June 2010 16:41 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| Wander Inn wrote on Sun, 06 June 2010 09:32 |
Thanks for the advice.
I'm going to plumb mine in the bottom
and out the top.
Mike
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As am I. Thanks for all who contributed.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler lines [message #87596 is a reply to message #87360] |
Mon, 07 June 2010 02:25 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| k2gkk wrote on Sat, 05 June 2010 09:54 |
In engine coolant systems, does not the thermostat
at the top of the engine keep coolant from circulating
FROM the engine TO the TOP of the radiator until
that coolant reaches the desired temperature?
* Mac Macdonald *
* USAF, Retired *
* Oklahoma City *
** "Money Pit" **
* '76 ex - P.B. *
|
Yes, but on several newer GM engines they are putting the thermostat in the bottom hose on the engine coolant intake side. I have seen this on the in-line 2.8, 2.9, 3.5, 3.7 and v8 5.4 liter engines. There may be more. Also they are using 180 degree not 195 thermostats.
On these engines the coolant is also continuously circulated through the engine with the thermostat open or closed just like the Olds 455 that we have. I do not know about the 403 circulation.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Engine oil cooler lines [message #87598 is a reply to message #87288] |
Mon, 07 June 2010 05:53 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
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Ken, I'm pretty sure the lower hose is OUT of the engine because they are revese flow. Heads first, block second. Am at the truck plant this morning and will confirm,,,,,PL,,,(I relize it doesn't make sense to suck on the upper hose.)
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