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| Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #86623] |
Sun, 30 May 2010 15:34  |
psakw
Messages: 61
Registered: February 2010
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I don't have an overheating problem but she does run 200 to 205. I want a new clutch fan (old one loose) and have heard that the 15-4644 is noisy but I am undecided if I should get the 15-4298 or the 15-4223.
Which do you recommend?
Paul A
73 Sequoia 455 cu in
Key West, Florida
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #86650 is a reply to message #86623] |
Sun, 30 May 2010 18:32  |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Paul,
I have done more testing on these than anyone except the
manufacturers, and I'm not sure sometimes about that last part.
Nearly all spin at the same percentage of engine rpm when not engaged,
with the exception of the 2797 Hayden, it is much lower. However,
when engaged, the difference is so slight you should not be able to
hear the difference from one model to the next.
Go to GMCWS home page, then Tech, then Cooling System Basics or click here:
http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/Engine_Cooling_System_Basics_-_Steve_Ferguson.pdf
For more than you probably want to know.
It might be important to repeat here that if the waterpump dies a slow
death, it usually takes the fan clutch with it. A quick check for
leaking silicone fluid around the hub will let you know if the news is
good or bad.
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:34 PM, paul array <pumppal1@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I don't have an overheating problem but she does run 200 to 205. I want a new clutch fan (old one loose) and have heard that the 15-4644 is noisy but I am undecided if I should get the 15-4298 or the 15-4223.
>
> Which do you recommend?
>
> Paul A
> 73 Sequoia 455 cu in
> Key West, Florida
> _______________________________________________
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #86652 is a reply to message #86623] |
Sun, 30 May 2010 18:56 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Paul,
I didn't do a very good job answering that question. First, those
are not NAPA numbers and if they are AC Delco, they are not the
correct ones for the GMC 455 or 403.
Is the noise you are trying to avoid occuring when the fan clutch is
engaged, or disengaged?
All will make just about the same level of noise when engaged,
there's no way around that. If you look at my test results, the two
quietest when disengaged are the AC Delco 4949 and the Hayden 2797.
Having said that, I must add that fan noise when disengaged should be
nearly inaudible as the wind and engine noise drowns it out.
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:34 PM, paul array <pumppal1@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I don't have an overheating problem but she does run 200 to 205. I want a new clutch fan (old one loose) and have heard that the 15-4644 is noisy but I am undecided if I should get the 15-4298 or the 15-4223.
>
> Which do you recommend?
>
> Paul A
> 73 Sequoia 455 cu in
> Key West, Florida
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #86697 is a reply to message #86681] |
Mon, 31 May 2010 11:50 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| psakw wrote on Mon, 31 May 2010 10:25 |
Steve:
Thank you for answering. I read your articles and saw you at montgomery. In fact I think you did a talk and I lost the notes on that talk (got wet in the rain). Anyway, what I want is the part number of the one I need. Your testing was mainly on the ac delco 15-4644 and I understand it's good but some people have said that it is so noisy they cant talk in the cab.(all the time)
I have also heard that the better choice is the 15-4947 which transfers over to the Napa TEM-271305. Are they the same? and made by the same manufacturer.
Example: The 15-4644 is $105. The 15-4947 is $70. and the Napa TEM-271305 is $36.
Which one do you recommend without constant fan noise?
Paul A
73 Sequoia
Key West Florida
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A few years back I went through all of this noisy and failing to disengage clutch problems. I finally contacted engineers from Hayden and later AC Delco. It turns out that Hayden had lowered the turn on temperature of their clutches and bragged about it. This was causing my failure to turn off problems on 4 of their clutches (2 part numbers) that I tested.
After contacting a friend at AC-Delco he got me in touch with an AC-Delco engineer. That engineer questioned me on the diameter and pitch of the fan. He also wanted the GM part number of the original clutch. I got the fan information from Denny Allen and also a recommendation to use the 15-4208. I gave all of this to the engineer along with a question on using the 15-4644.
He came back with the same recommendation as Denny Allen which was to use the 15-4208. The 15-4208 has now been superceeded by the 15-4947.
On the 15-4644, he asked what belt widths were were using. I told him 7/16". He asked how the belt and water pump bearing wear was doing on coaches using the 15-4644. He said the minimum requirement for the 15-4644 was 1/2" wide belts. He said the 14-4644 was for a 2" bigger diameter and a 3/4" larger pitch fan than what are were using on a GMC.
Based on all of the above, I and many other GMCers are using the 15-4208 and 15-4947. I have had the 15-4208 installed for several years and I have been very happy with it. It also is much quieter than the 15-4644.
Cinnabar, Applied GMC (Jim K), and Emery Stora all recommend using the 15-4644.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #86723 is a reply to message #86714] |
Mon, 31 May 2010 14:47 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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They can tell me that the Hayden makes fan clutches for Delco, but
based on overall reliability, there must be something in the Delco
design that makes the Delco units more consistent.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On May 31, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>>
>>
>> Cinnabar, Applied GMC (Jim K), and Emery Stora all recommend using the 15-4644.
>>
>>
> Mine has now been on for about 7 years and still works well. Â If the temp raised to about 205 it comes on and stays on for a very short time. Â I can watch the needle on my temp gauge drop quickly. Â Then it is quiet again until I go up a steep hill in hot weather while towing my Geo Tracker.
>
> Prior to that I was replacing the Hayden 2797 about twice a year with the Pep Boys lifetime warranty. Â It was a real pain in the neck.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #86797 is a reply to message #86681] |
Tue, 01 June 2010 07:38 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Paul,
I don't see an answer to my questions as to which noise you are
referring to. Engaged, or disengaged?
The GMCMI Part Cross Reference Guide lists the following for the GMC
NAPA TEM 271305 This is a Hayden 2705 Unit
NAPA 271301 This is a Hayden 2797 (Severe Duty) Unit
Hayden clutch fans typically engage at lower ambient air temperatures
than OEM style fan clutches.
The Hayden 2797 engages at 180 deg +/- 10 deg ambient air temps
The Hayden 2705 engages at 175 deg +/- 10 deg ambient air temps
Here are some notes from my presentation.
Aftermarket companies also make replacements. Hayden, Murray, NAPA,
Torque-Flo etc.
Many of these are made by the same company and are marketed under
different brands. Also, AC Delco outsources some of it’s fan clutches
and Hayden is one of the sources. Torque-Flo (Autozone) fan clutches
are made by Hayden and the HD 2797 Torque-Flo is made in China.
I have not tested the 15-4208/4947 as suggested by Ken B. If this is
your choice, please post any feedback you may have after you install
it and get some miles on it.
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 8:25 AM, paul array <pumppal1@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Steve:
> Thank you for answering. I read your articles and saw you at montgomery. In fact I think you did a talk and I lost the notes on that talk (got wet in the rain). Anyway, what I want is the part number of the one I need. Your testing was mainly on the ac delco 15-4644 and I understand it's good but some people have said that it is so noisy they cant talk in the cab.(all the time)
> I have also heard that the better choice is the 15-4947 which transfers over to the Napa TEM-271305. Are they the same? and made by the same manufacturer.
> Example: The 15-4644 is $105. The 15-4947 is $70. and the Napa TEM-271305 is $36.
>
> Which one do you recommend without constant fan noise?
>
> Paul A
> 73 Sequoia
> Key West Florida
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
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| Re: Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #91081 is a reply to message #86623] |
Sun, 04 July 2010 16:41 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Not trying to dredge up an old topic, but I just read all this crap and went and looked at fan clutches since I need one. Napa, AZ, and Checker (now Orielly)'s clutches are all made by Hayden.
There are basically two types, standard duty 2705 and severe duty 2797. The 2705 matches my (OEM?) clutch physically, and the 2797 is twice the price and more beefy. Napa gives a year warranty, Checker gives a limited lifetime whatever the hell that means.
The Napa guys said that even the ones at the GM dealer will be Hayden or some other weird name I cannot remember.
Steve F gave a lot of information that made my head hurt.
Emery said the 2797 died after a year.
If I hadn't read this thread, I probably would have my new fan clutch installed and be happy right now.
All this crap brings me to the conclusion that Ignorance is bliss and too much information is a bitch!
I bought the 2705 and am keeping my OEM one as a spare.
As long as the damn thing spins and moves air when I need it, I am happy. Fan noise is a fact of life in a hot climate.
I've also made a decision about tires and will no longer read any topics about tires. Too much information about that too.
It's Sunday and it is past my nap time. Cant'cha tell?
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #91093 is a reply to message #86623] |
Sun, 04 July 2010 18:12 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Quite is good when it's supposed to be quite.
Loud --I don't care how loud it is when I need it to cool I want it to do the job pronto, right along with the associated drop in MPG --- it's better than overheating and/or a new motor.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #91094 is a reply to message #91081] |
Sun, 04 July 2010 19:02 |
rwbmitiopt@comcast.net
Messages: 189
Registered: April 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chris
One of my biggest rewards after completeing a GMC project is I don't have to suffer through the multiple responses on that particular subject. Don't get me wrong, most are trying to help and offer advice but if subscribers searched the archives or Gene Fishers site before asking a long hashed over subject we wouldn't have the fan clutch, tire, AC, etc wars. Can you tell I ALSO missed my nap or had one to many beers instead of napping. In the meantime Have a Great 4th!
Randall (fan of MRERF's site)
| Chr$ wrote on Sun, 04 July 2010 14:41 |
Not trying to dredge up an old topic, but I just read all this crap and went and looked at fan clutches since I need one. Napa, AZ, and Checker (now Orielly)'s clutches are all made by Hayden.
Steve F gave a lot of information that made my head hurt.
Emery said the 2797 died after a year.
If I hadn't read this thread, I probably would have my new fan clutch installed and be happy right now.
All this crap brings me to the conclusion that Ignorance is bliss and too much information is a bitch!
I bought the 2705 and am keeping my OEM one as a spare.
As long as the damn thing spins and moves air when I need it, I am happy. Fan noise is a fact of life in a hot climate.
I've also made a decision about tires and will no longer read any topics about tires. Too much information about that too.
It's Sunday and it is past my nap time. Cant'cha tell?
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Randall Burns
Sammamish WA
75 EX GB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #91121 is a reply to message #91081] |
Mon, 05 July 2010 06:35 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chris,
Sorry for hurting your head as sometimes that happens to me too.
Usually, a Ken H. dart.
Hang on to the old one unless you know it was bad.
1st of all, for our application, NAPA gets it's fan clutches from
Hayden. Unless you have a business acct. with NAPA you generally pay
substantially more for parts from them than you would other chain
stores.
Some of Hayden's fan clutches are made in the USA, some are not. If
it is in a Hayden box, it is made in the USA
Many of the HD application fan clutches in AC Delco boxes are made by
Hayden, and of course, many of these are made in China.
All of the Torque-Flo fan clutches for our application sold by
Autozone, are repackaged Haydens that are made in China.
I could go on..........
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Chris Choffat <cchoffataz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Not trying to dredge up an old topic, but I just read all this crap and went and looked at fan clutches since I need one. Napa, AZ, and Checker (now Orielly)'s clutches are all made by Hayden.
>
> There are basically two types, standard duty 2705 and severe duty 2797. The 2705 matches my (OEM?) clutch physically, and the 2797 is twice the price and more beefy. Napa gives a year warranty, Checker gives a limited lifetime whatever the hell that means.
>
> The Napa guys said that even the ones at the GM dealer will be Hayden or some other weird name I cannot remember.
>
> Steve F gave a lot of information that made my head hurt.
>
> Emery said the 2797 died after a year.
>
> If I hadn't read this thread, I probably would have my new fan clutch installed and be happy right now.
>
> All this crap brings me to the conclusion that Ignorance is bliss and too much information is a bitch!
>
> I bought the 2705 and am keeping my OEM one as a spare.
>
> As long as the damn thing spins and moves air when I need it, I am happy. Fan noise is a fact of life in a hot climate.
>
> I've also made a decision about tires and will no longer read any topics about tires. Too much information about that too.
>
> It's Sunday and it is past my nap time. Cant'cha tell?
>
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD, Quadra bag. The Engineer's Motorhome
> Scottsdale, AZ
>
> Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: Which Clutch Fan do you All Recommend? [message #91156 is a reply to message #86623] |
Mon, 05 July 2010 15:00 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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if it's a topic that has been talked to death you always have the option of not reading it......or do you..... see --you had to read it. At any rate, info is good especially for those newer to the GMC and as 'we' forget more than we remember now, it's a good reminder.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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