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| [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #84982] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 14:32  |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
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I have a question. When removing my radiator, there were 2 sets of lines; 1 going to the radiator & 1 going to a separate cooler mounted in front of the radiator. Which is which? I assume that the one in the radiator is from the transmission, but it has hoses with crimped-on ends. They appear to be high-pressure, which supports my assumption. The other cooler has rubber lines & hose clamps.I can't get far enough under it to trace it. The hydraulic hoses connect to steel lines. Do I need to get them made locally or are they available & for how much?
Just wanting to insure that my assumptions are correct before proceeding.
Richard & Carol Brown
PO Box 941
Lindale, TX. 75771
1974 GMC Eleganza SE (DILLIGAF)
wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net
(903)881-0192
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85012 is a reply to message #84982] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 19:55  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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Can you trace them back to the trans or the engine oil filter addaptor?
Can you disconnect in front and see if you get trans Dexron or engine oil?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85016 is a reply to message #84982] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 20:07 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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The oil cooler lines go on the passenger side of the engine. JimK has them if you want to replace them.
The transmission cooler lines run along the driver's side of the engine (obviously, the side the transmission is on).
That might help to ID the lines.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85019 is a reply to message #84982] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 20:52 |
Dennis S
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Registered: November 2005
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The hoses going to the back top right of the radiator are for the oil cooler. These lines trypically have crimped ends and the hose is braided. The transmission cooler is in the lower right of the radiator. These lines are steel. It is fairly common for an add-on cooler to be installed in front of the radiator is series with the transmission cooler in the radiator.
Dennis
| Richard Brown wrote on Mon, 17 May 2010 14:32 |
I have a question. When removing my radiator, there were 2 sets of lines; 1 going to the radiator & 1 going to a separate cooler mounted in front of the radiator. Which is which? I assume that the one in the radiator is from the transmission, but it has hoses with crimped-on ends. They appear to be high-pressure, which supports my assumption. The other cooler has rubber lines & hose clamps.I can't get far enough under it to trace it. The hydraulic hoses connect to steel lines. Do I need to get them made locally or are they available & for how much?
Just wanting to insure that my assumptions are correct before proceeding.
Richard & Carol Brown
PO Box 941
Lindale, TX. 75771
1974 GMC Eleganza SE (DILLIGAF)
wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net
(903)881-0192
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85036 is a reply to message #84982] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 22:21 |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
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I'll look tomorrow. By the time we got it out of there, we were too tired & hot to care. We removed both radiator & cooler & locked them away so they wouldn't get stolen while it's down. Lots of copper thieves around here. I plan on flushing out both of them anyway. I would've figured that the transmission cooler would be in the radiator like everything else GM made, but it seems that you can't assume anything on these things.
Richard & Carol Brown
PO Box 941
Lindale, TX. 75771
1974 GMC Eleganza SE (DILLIGAF)
wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net
(903)881-0192
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85046 is a reply to message #85036] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 23:19 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Richard,
The OEM transmission cooler WAS in the bottom of the right radiator tank.
And the OEM engine oil cooler WAS above the transmission cooler in the
right radiator tank. Where those coolers are now can only be determined by
following the lines from the top, left rear of the transmission to its
cooler, and from the oil filter adapter on the right side of the engine to
the engine oil cooler.
If either the transmission or engine oil cooler in the radiator has been
bypassed, think very carefully about whether you want to re-connect it. If
it was eliminated because of a transmission or engine failure it may be
contaminated. If it's contaminated, you may not be able to clean it
adequately to protect your current machinery. Jim Kanomata will not
reconnect in internal cooler after an engine failure until it's been removed
from the radiator and cleaned by a "professional cooler cleaner".
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Richard Brown <wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net
> wrote:
> I'll look tomorrow. By the time we got it out of there, we were too tired &
> hot to care. We removed both radiator & cooler & locked them away so they
> wouldn't get stolen while it's down. Lots of copper thieves around here. I
> plan on flushing out both of them anyway. I would've figured that the
> transmission cooler would be in the radiator like everything else GM made,
> but it seems that you can't assume anything on these things.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85049 is a reply to message #84982] |
Mon, 17 May 2010 23:31 |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
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That must be it, I guess. The oil cooler must be where I'd expect the transmission lines to hook up. The transmission has a separate cooler mounted low in front of the radiator on the driver's side. I'm not sure I like this setup. I'd prefer to keep the oil between 160° and 180°. The hotter the oil gets, the faster it breaks down, however if I remember correctly the oil lubricates best above 160°. Maybe things have changed from my days as a Machinist's Mate. The transmission would benefit from heating up quickly since the fluid works best at a certain temp & viscosity. My radiator only has one set of connections for cooling lines, but perhaps I can get another one installed at a later time. I will get the one in the radiator flushed when it gets repaired & I'll blow out & flush the other one before I reinstall it.
Richard & Carol Brown
PO Box 941
Lindale, TX. 75771
1974 GMC Eleganza SE (DILLIGAF)
wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net
(903)881-0192
_______________________________________________
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85055 is a reply to message #84982] |
Tue, 18 May 2010 02:02 |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
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Folks, are you sure that the stock radiator on a 74 GMC has 2 coolers in the right tank of the radiator? I just went back out there and looked to verify what I remembered. There is only 1 cooler there. The radiator hasn't been taken apart to remove the transmission cooler. It appears that the radiator never had any but the one for oil.
That being said, I can only see 2 reasons; the way it is now is stock for this coach, or the radiator in this coach isn't stock. To me, this means that there IS a radiator from another vehicle that fits, even if it only does so with the addition of an external transmission cooler. Do radiators have part numbers on them? If so, maybe I can cross the number to find out what it came off of. The radiator fit correctly without modifying the rubber mounts, so it must be the correct size. if I can find out, it may be that ordering a core for our radiators may be cheaper if they are ordered for the other vehicle. At a lot of places, a common part for a Chevrolet or a Cadillac can have different prices, even tho they are the same exact part. That is how salvage yards make money. They look up the part in their Hollander Interchange Manual & find the part by it's Hollander number, but charge according to what you ask for. I have called parts stores for quotes on
the same part, but asked for the part from 2 different makes. They quoted 2 different prices. Besides, it would be good if someone is traveling & damages a radiator away from home to have a more common radiator to ask for, like one from a school bus for example. The more of something made, the cheaper it is, as well as easier to find. (For instance, the easiest way to put 4-wheel disc brakes on an early Mustang is to buy a rear axle from a 77-80 Lincoln Versailles that came with factory 4-wheel disc brakes standard.)
I'd rather have what is supposed to be in it, but it's always good to have options.I'd rather sleep in my bed at home after a trip than in the parking lot of a garage or a hotel any day while waiting for parts. Plus when you get home you can order the correct radiator from either of the Jims and keep the parts that got you home to help someone else get home.
That's just my way of thinking. I don't expect anyone else to do it.
Richard & Carol Brown
PO Box 941
Lindale, TX. 75771
1974 GMC Eleganza SE (DILLIGAF)
wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net
(903)881-0192
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85057 is a reply to message #85055] |
Tue, 18 May 2010 03:07 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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| Richard Brown wrote on Tue, 18 May 2010 02:02 |
Folks, are you sure that the stock radiator on a 74 GMC has 2 coolers in the right tank of the radiator? I just went back out there and looked to verify what I remembered. There is only 1 cooler there. The radiator hasn't been taken apart to remove the transmission cooler. It appears that the radiator never had any but the one for oil.
SNIP
Richard & Carol Brown
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All GMC motorhomes and transmodes came with a radiator that had cooling for BOTH the oil system and the transmission. As to re-core see this info:
http://www.gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/radiator.html#core
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85058 is a reply to message #84982] |
Tue, 18 May 2010 06:06 |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
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Just a quick comment about oil temperatures: The oil doesn't have a temperature where it "lubricates best." Below maybe 200F transmission oil and especially engine oil can collect enough water to cause corrosion of the steel parts, so you would certainly like to keep the oil above 180 and preferably above 200. The viscosity drops as the temperature goes up, so higher temperatures mean less friction and better fuel economy and this is true of both the engine and transmission. In the transmission the torque converter efficiency especially will increase with higher temperatures. I consider a transmission oil temperature of between 200 and 240 to be normal and during a hill climb I wouldn't worry if it got over 250. Engine oil temperatures should perhaps run between 190 and 220 or so. when the oil approaches 300 it will start to oxidize at a higher rate and operation over 300 for any length of time will demand an early oil change. I learned once that
in an engine the oil temperature will increase about 50 degrees as it passes through a main bearing and in the transmission the oil in a clutch will increase in temperature 100 degrees during a full-throttle upshift. Of course, it immediately cools back down, so it doesn't create a problem(don't repeat full-throttle shifts in rapid succession). Synthetic engine oil won't oxidize or evaporate quite as fast at high temperatures, so a higher engine oil temperature could be tolerated. In short, my opinion is that trying to hold either temperature below 200 has no advantage and is detrimental to fuel economy.
previous post:
That must be it, I guess. The oil cooler must be where I'd expect the transmission lines to hook up. The transmission has a separate cooler mounted low in front of the radiator on the driver's side. I'm not sure I like this setup. I'd prefer to keep the oil between 160? and 180?. The hotter the oil gets, the faster it breaks down, however if I remember correctly the oil lubricates best above 160?. Maybe things have changed from my days as a Machinist's Mate. The transmission would benefit from heating up quickly since the fluid works best at a certain temp & viscosity. My radiator only has one set of connections for cooling lines, but perhaps I can get another one installed at a later time. I will get the one in the radiator flushed when it gets repaired & I'll blow out & flush the other one before I reinstall it.
Richard & Carol Brown
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #85066 is a reply to message #85049] |
Tue, 18 May 2010 07:43 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
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Maybe this diagram showing the oil cooler hook up will help ..
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=11675&cat=4028
Dennis
| Richard Brown wrote on Mon, 17 May 2010 23:31 |
That must be it, I guess. The oil cooler must be where I'd expect the transmission lines to hook up. The transmission has a separate cooler mounted low in front of the radiator on the driver's side. I'm not sure I like this setup. I'd prefer to keep the oil between 160° and 180°. The hotter the oil gets, the faster it breaks down, however if I remember correctly the oil lubricates best above 160°. Maybe things have changed from my days as a Machinist's Mate. The transmission would benefit from heating up quickly since the fluid works best at a certain temp & viscosity. My radiator only has one set of connections for cooling lines, but perhaps I can get another one installed at a later time. I will get the one in the radiator flushed when it gets repaired & I'll blow out & flush the other one before I reinstall it.
Richard & Carol Brown
PO Box 941
Lindale, TX. 75771
1974 GMC Eleganza SE (DILLIGAF)
wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net
(903)881-0192
_______________________________________________
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #244924 is a reply to message #244922] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 22:57 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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""The inner line (closest to the torque converter) is from the torque
converter to the cooler. Somewhere in the manual there's a picture with
arrows.
Ken H.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Sean Kidd wrote:
>
>
> Anyone know which trans cooling line is supply/return? Thanks in advance.""
Didn't Rob M just post that in the pic site?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #244930 is a reply to message #244924] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 23:55 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bob,
That was the oil cooler lines, however, not to disappoint, here you go!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/random-photos/p53992-transmission-cooler-lines.html
I found the text under the cooler MOST interesting; GMC noted it was OK to clean the cooler!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
The inner line (closest to the torque converter) is from the torque converter to the cooler. Somewhere in the manual there's a
picture with arrows.
Ken H.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Sean Kidd wrote:
Didn't Rob M just post that in the pic site?
--
Bob
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #244995 is a reply to message #244930] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 12:06 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| USAussie wrote on Mon, 24 March 2014 22:55 |
Bob,
That was the oil cooler lines, however, not to disappoint, here you go!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/random-photos/p53992-transmission-cooler-lines.html
I found the text under the cooler MOST interesting; GMC noted it was OK to clean the cooler!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
The inner line (closest to the torque converter) is from the torque converter to the cooler. Somewhere in the manual there's a
picture with arrows.
Ken H.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Sean Kidd wrote:
Didn't Rob M just post that in the pic site?
--
Bob
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Very good Rob. I wonder if anyone has cut an old GMC radiator apart ot see what the coolers look like. Some coolers are just a simple loop in and out and I imagine those can be easily flushed after a failure. More complicated coolers may never be able to be totally flushed
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #245029 is a reply to message #244995] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 15:58 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
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Trichlorethylene will flush them.
| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Tue, 25 March 2014 12:06 |
| USAussie wrote on Mon, 24 March 2014 22:55 |
Bob,
That was the oil cooler lines, however, not to disappoint, here you go!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/random-photos/p53992-transmission-cooler-lines.html
I found the text under the cooler MOST interesting; GMC noted it was OK to clean the cooler!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
The inner line (closest to the torque converter) is from the torque converter to the cooler. Somewhere in the manual there's a
picture with arrows.
Ken H.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Sean Kidd wrote:
Didn't Rob M just post that in the pic site?
--
Bob
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Very good Rob. I wonder if anyone has cut an old GMC radiator apart ot see what the coolers look like. Some coolers are just a simple loop in and out and I imagine those can be easily flushed after a failure. More complicated coolers may never be able to be totally flushed
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| Re: [GMCnet] Radiator cooling lines [message #245033 is a reply to message #85058] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 16:12 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
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I'm going to address the transmission temp statement...my FSM says 170 is normal. I've seen graphs that show expected transmission life at different temps and once you go over 200 you are 1/2 lifing the transmission.
Maybe your manual says different.
| Gary Casey wrote on Tue, 18 May 2010 06:06 |
Just a quick comment about oil temperatures: The oil doesn't have a temperature where it "lubricates best." Below maybe 200F transmission oil and especially engine oil can collect enough water to cause corrosion of the steel parts, so you would certainly like to keep the oil above 180 and preferably above 200. The viscosity drops as the temperature goes up, so higher temperatures mean less friction and better fuel economy and this is true of both the engine and transmission. In the transmission the torque converter efficiency especially will increase with higher temperatures. I consider a transmission oil temperature of between 200 and 240 to be normal and during a hill climb I wouldn't worry if it got over 250. Engine oil temperatures should perhaps run between 190 and 220 or so. when the oil approaches 300 it will start to oxidize at a higher rate and operation over 300 for any length of time will demand an early oil change. I learned once that
in an engine the oil temperature will increase about 50 degrees as it passes through a main bearing and in the transmission the oil in a clutch will increase in temperature 100 degrees during a full-throttle upshift. Of course, it immediately cools back down, so it doesn't create a problem(don't repeat full-throttle shifts in rapid succession). Synthetic engine oil won't oxidize or evaporate quite as fast at high temperatures, so a higher engine oil temperature could be tolerated. In short, my opinion is that trying to hold either temperature below 200 has no advantage and is detrimental to fuel economy.
previous post:
That must be it, I guess. The oil cooler must be where I'd expect the transmission lines to hook up. The transmission has a separate cooler mounted low in front of the radiator on the driver's side. I'm not sure I like this setup. I'd prefer to keep the oil between 160? and 180?. The hotter the oil gets, the faster it breaks down, however if I remember correctly the oil lubricates best above 160?. Maybe things have changed from my days as a Machinist's Mate. The transmission would benefit from heating up quickly since the fluid works best at a certain temp & viscosity. My radiator only has one set of connections for cooling lines, but perhaps I can get another one installed at a later time. I will get the one in the radiator flushed when it gets repaired & I'll blow out & flush the other one before I reinstall it.
Richard & Carol Brown
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