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| [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84160] |
Wed, 12 May 2010 00:36  |
Gary Berry
Messages: 1002
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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A couple of weeks ago Larry and I replaced the transmission in his
76 PB. When we fired up the engine, there was a lot of clanging and
banging. We turned the engine off, and there was a sound like a turbo
was spinning down. It looks like we might have destroyed the pump.
When we installed the new trans, the torque Converter (TC) was as far
into the case as we could get. When we installed the trans, the TC was
up against the flexplate. We turned them separately from each other to
align the flexplate to TC bolt holes. Evidently there needs to be more
room between the TC and the flexplate when installing, but how do you
get more room?. I removed the new trans today. Both the original trans
and the new trans are sitting side-by-side with the TCs as far into
the case as I can get them. I took a straight edge and laid it across
each of the cases and measured to one of the bolt holes on the TC.
They both measured at 1". So, I'm confused. My question is how far
from the flexplate is the TC when you bolt up the trans to the engine
block? Also, is there a good transmission fellow in the Pacific
NorthWest that works on the 425 trans? I have 17 days to get this
running and movable. If I don't have a place to go by Saturday, then
I'm reinstalling the old one (it worked OK, but the fluid was turning
brown). If that doesn't work, Larry is having the local wrecking yard
come out and pick this up and take it away.He's done. I'm just trying
to save it. Let me know.
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84162 is a reply to message #84160] |
Wed, 12 May 2010 01:22  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Gary Berry wrote on Wed, 12 May 2010 00:36 |
A couple of weeks ago Larry and I replaced the transmission in his
76 PB. When we fired up the engine, there was a lot of clanging and
banging. We turned the engine off, and there was a sound like a turbo
was spinning down. It looks like we might have destroyed the pump.
When we installed the new trans, the torque Converter (TC) was as far
into the case as we could get. When we installed the trans, the TC was
up against the flexplate. We turned them separately from each other to
align the flexplate to TC bolt holes. Evidently there needs to be more
room between the TC and the flexplate when installing, but how do you
get more room?. I removed the new trans today. Both the original trans
and the new trans are sitting side-by-side with the TCs as far into
the case as I can get them. I took a straight edge and laid it across
each of the cases and measured to one of the bolt holes on the TC.
They both measured at 1". So, I'm confused. My question is how far
from the flexplate is the TC when you bolt up the trans to the engine
block? Also, is there a good transmission fellow in the Pacific
NorthWest that works on the 425 trans? I have 17 days to get this
running and movable. If I don't have a place to go by Saturday, then
I'm reinstalling the old one (it worked OK, but the fluid was turning
brown). If that doesn't work, Larry is having the local wrecking yard
come out and pick this up and take it away.He's done. I'm just trying
to save it. Let me know.
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
|
You have me confused with your posting. The torque converter is up against and bolted to the flex plate. There should be no room between them. I think you have something else wrong probably inside the trans. Why don't you get Manny to ship you a rebuilt TC and trans?
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84163 is a reply to message #84160] |
Wed, 12 May 2010 05:01 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I've had this happen before but usually it occurs when you don't
properly register the TC in the front pump of the trans. With the TC
slipped onto the front of the trans, gently turn it untill you feel it
"register" into the pump. Each time you turn the TC, gently pull it
towards you about 1/2", turn it an inch or two, then push it into the
trans. The two large notches on the neck of the converter have to
slip into two mating notches on the front pump. If you don't pull it
slightly towards you whle you index the TC, it has a tendency to turn
the pump and you neve get it lined up. When it locks into those two
large notches in the pump, you will definitely feel it and the TC in
this position will be about 1/3 from the flex plate when you bolt up
the trans to the engine. Once you have the trans bolted up, then move
the converter up against the flexplate and bolt it up.
Failure to get the converter registered into the trans pump usually
lets it stick out just far enough past the bell housing far enough to
keep you from being able to tighten down the bolts holding the trans
to the engine. That's how so many of those bell housings get cracked.
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago Larry and I replaced the transmission in his
> 76 PB. When we fired up the engine, there was a lot of clanging and
> banging. We turned the engine off, and there was a sound like a turbo
> was spinning down. It looks like we might have destroyed the pump.
> When we installed the new trans, the torque Converter (TC) was as far
> into the case as we could get. When we installed the trans, the TC was
> up against the flexplate. We turned them separately from each other to
> align the flexplate to TC bolt holes. Evidently there needs to be more
> room between the TC and the flexplate when installing, but how do you
> get more room?. I removed the new trans today. Both the original trans
> and the new trans are sitting side-by-side with the TCs as far into
> the case as I can get them. I took a straight edge and laid it across
> each of the cases and measured to one of the bolt holes on the TC.
> They both measured at 1". So, I'm confused. My question is how far
> from the flexplate is the TC when you bolt up the trans to the engine
> block? Also, is there a good transmission fellow in the Pacific
> NorthWest that works on the 425 trans? I have 17 days to get this
> running and movable. If I don't have a place to go by Saturday, then
> I'm reinstalling the old one (it worked OK, but the fluid was turning
> brown). If that doesn't work, Larry is having the local wrecking yard
> come out and pick this up and take it away.He's done. I'm just trying
> to save it. Let me know.
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84164 is a reply to message #84160] |
Wed, 12 May 2010 05:01 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
|
|
Gary,
I've had this happen before but usually it occurs when you don't
properly register the TC in the front pump of the trans. With the TC
slipped onto the front of the trans, gently turn it untill you feel it
"register" into the pump. Each time you turn the TC, gently pull it
towards you about 1/2", turn it an inch or two, then push it into the
trans. The two large notches on the neck of the converter have to
slip into two mating notches on the front pump. If you don't pull it
slightly towards you whle you index the TC, it has a tendency to turn
the pump and you neve get it lined up. When it locks into those two
large notches in the pump, you will definitely feel it and the TC in
this position will be about 1/3 from the flex plate when you bolt up
the trans to the engine. Once you have the trans bolted up, then move
the converter up against the flexplate and bolt it up.
Failure to get the converter registered into the trans pump usually
lets it stick out just far enough past the bell housing far enough to
keep you from being able to tighten down the bolts holding the trans
to the engine. That's how so many of those bell housings get cracked.
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago Larry and I replaced the transmission in his
> 76 PB. When we fired up the engine, there was a lot of clanging and
> banging. We turned the engine off, and there was a sound like a turbo
> was spinning down. It looks like we might have destroyed the pump.
> When we installed the new trans, the torque Converter (TC) was as far
> into the case as we could get. When we installed the trans, the TC was
> up against the flexplate. We turned them separately from each other to
> align the flexplate to TC bolt holes. Evidently there needs to be more
> room between the TC and the flexplate when installing, but how do you
> get more room?. I removed the new trans today. Both the original trans
> and the new trans are sitting side-by-side with the TCs as far into
> the case as I can get them. I took a straight edge and laid it across
> each of the cases and measured to one of the bolt holes on the TC.
> They both measured at 1". So, I'm confused. My question is how far
> from the flexplate is the TC when you bolt up the trans to the engine
> block? Also, is there a good transmission fellow in the Pacific
> NorthWest that works on the 425 trans? I have 17 days to get this
> running and movable. If I don't have a place to go by Saturday, then
> I'm reinstalling the old one (it worked OK, but the fluid was turning
> brown). If that doesn't work, Larry is having the local wrecking yard
> come out and pick this up and take it away.He's done. I'm just trying
> to save it. Let me know.
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84175 is a reply to message #84163] |
Wed, 12 May 2010 07:27 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I vote with Steve on this one. When I installed my freshly rebuilt engine,
transmission, and converter back in '98, just after getting the GMC -- when
I knew NOTHING about them, I had trouble getting the bell housing to seat.
Before cracking the bell housing, I backed off and eventually seated the
converter correctly, as described by Steve.
9000 miles later, 3 miles west of Sheridan, WY, the torque converter started
leaking like crazy. Darryl Winterfeldt and I discovered that the converter
was cracked around the output shaft. I'll always suspect my ignorance
caused that failure.
At Bean Station I helped JR Slaten R&R his transmission. His massive leak
was exactly like mine and from the same location. Bill Bramlett was also
helping (well, actually, as always, LEADING); he reported having only seen
that failure a couple of times during his 60+ years of professional
mechanicing.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 6:01 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>wrote:
> Gary,
> I've had this happen before but usually it occurs when you don't
> properly register the TC in the front pump of the trans. With the TC
> slipped onto the front of the trans, gently turn it untill you feel it
> "register" into the pump. Each time you turn the TC, gently pull it
> towards you about 1/2", turn it an inch or two, then push it into the
> trans. The two large notches on the neck of the converter have to
> slip into two mating notches on the front pump. If you don't pull it
> slightly towards you whle you index the TC, it has a tendency to turn
> the pump and you neve get it lined up. When it locks into those two
> large notches in the pump, you will definitely feel it and the TC in
> this position will be about 1/3 from the flex plate when you bolt up
> the trans to the engine. Once you have the trans bolted up, then move
> the converter up against the flexplate and bolt it up.
> Failure to get the converter registered into the trans pump usually
> lets it stick out just far enough past the bell housing far enough to
> keep you from being able to tighten down the bolts holding the trans
> to the engine. That's how so many of those bell housings get cracked.
>
> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A couple of weeks ago Larry and I replaced the transmission in his
> > 76 PB. When we fired up the engine, there was a lot of clanging and
> > banging. We turned the engine off, and there was a sound like a turbo
> > was spinning down. It looks like we might have destroyed the pump.
> > When we installed the new trans, the torque Converter (TC) was as far
> > into the case as we could get. When we installed the trans, the TC was
> > up against the flexplate. We turned them separately from each other to
> > align the flexplate to TC bolt holes. Evidently there needs to be more
> > room between the TC and the flexplate when installing, but how do you
> > get more room?. I removed the new trans today. Both the original trans
> > and the new trans are sitting side-by-side with the TCs as far into
> > the case as I can get them. I took a straight edge and laid it across
> > each of the cases and measured to one of the bolt holes on the TC.
> > They both measured at 1". So, I'm confused. My question is how far
> > from the flexplate is the TC when you bolt up the trans to the engine
> > block? Also, is there a good transmission fellow in the Pacific
> > NorthWest that works on the 425 trans? I have 17 days to get this
> > running and movable. If I don't have a place to go by Saturday, then
> > I'm reinstalling the old one (it worked OK, but the fluid was turning
> > brown). If that doesn't work, Larry is having the local wrecking yard
> > come out and pick this up and take it away.He's done. I'm just trying
> > to save it. Let me know.
> >
> > --
> > Gary and Diana Berry
> > 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84204 is a reply to message #84162] |
Wed, 12 May 2010 11:21 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
You need to spin the converter as you push it in.
It will drop back by doing it this way.
This is a common amature problem.
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Gary Berry wrote on Wed, 12 May 2010 00:36
>> A couple of weeks ago Larry and I replaced the transmission in his
>> 76 PB. When we fired up the engine, there was a lot of clanging and
>> banging. We turned the engine off, and there was a sound like a turbo
>> was spinning down. It looks like we might have destroyed the pump.
>> When we installed the new trans, the torque Converter (TC) was as far
>> into the case as we could get. When we installed the trans, the TC was
>> up against the flexplate. We turned them separately from each other to
>> align the flexplate to TC bolt holes. Evidently there needs to be more
>> room between the TC and the flexplate when installing, but how do you
>> get more room?. I removed the new trans today. Both the original trans
>> and the new trans are sitting side-by-side with the TCs as far into
>> the case as I can get them. I took a straight edge and laid it across
>> each of the cases and measured to one of the bolt holes on the TC.
>> They both measured at 1". So, I'm confused. My question is how far
>> from the flexplate is the TC when you bolt up the trans to the engine
>> block? Also, is there a good transmission fellow in the Pacific
>> NorthWest that works on the 425 trans? I have 17 days to get this
>> running and movable. If I don't have a place to go by Saturday, then
>> I'm reinstalling the old one (it worked OK, but the fluid was turning
>> brown). If that doesn't work, Larry is having the local wrecking yard
>> come out and pick this up and take it away.He's done. Â I'm just trying
>> to save it. Let me know.
>>
>> --
>> Gary and Diana Berry
>> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
>
> You have me confused with your posting. Â The torque converter is up against and bolted to the flex plate. Â There should be no room between them. Â I think you have something else wrong probably inside the trans. Â Why don't you get Manny to ship you a rebuilt TC and trans?
>
> Ken B.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84220 is a reply to message #84169] |
Wed, 12 May 2010 13:03 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Gary Casey wrote on Wed, 12 May 2010 05:53 |
No, I think Ken is wrong on this one. When bolted to the engine, the torque converter should have some end play. I forgot how much, but I think maybe .050. The converter should spin easily when the bell housing is bolted tight. The converter swells when running and it needs the clearance. Then the converter can be pulled forward to bolt to the flex plate. Cracked or broken flex plates are not unusual. The reason the converter is out too far is usually that the converter isn't engaging the pump correctly. Bolting it up then will result in a huge force on the pump, destroying it in rapid fashion.
Gary
You have me confused with your posting. The torque converter is up against and bolted to the flex plate. There should be no room between them. I think you have something else wrong probably inside the trans. Why don't you get Manny to ship you a rebuilt TC and trans?
Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
Yes I am wrong. I thought he was wanting to install some kind of spacer between the TC and the flex plate. I missed the fact that he simply wanted the TC placed farther back on the pump prior to installing the trans.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84548 is a reply to message #84544] |
Fri, 14 May 2010 11:15 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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If you cut it, have lots of kitty litter and rags standing by.
There's at least a quart of fluid in that thing. It should lift out
like Manny says whether or not the pump is bad Gary.
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Manny;
>
> Thanks for the tip. I'll go over and give it a try. I think at this
> point we know the pump is bad. Since the TC won't come off, will the
> trans be unable to be fixed? Do I just toss it at this point? Can I
> some how cut the TC in half to remove it? Just wondering what are my
> options? On the old transmission, what would be holding the TC from
> coming off? Thanks..
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Manny Trovao <mannystrans@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I use a pair of welding vise grips on the hub and pull straight up.
>> On the tranny just removed, the converter may not come out if the pump
>> is damaged.
>>
>> --
>> Manny Trovao
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84553 is a reply to message #84551] |
Fri, 14 May 2010 11:58 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Manny, it's all your fault.
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Manny Trovao <mannystrans@gmail.com> wrote:
> Steve,
> Not really.
> Once the neck of the converter where it engages the pump gets mangled
> up, the stator tube can't slide out.
>
>
>
> --
> Manny Trovao
> mannystrans@hughes.net
> Manny's Trans / Power Drive
> San Jose, California
> 408-937-1583
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Tranny Problem [message #84562 is a reply to message #84559] |
Fri, 14 May 2010 12:52 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I was just horsing around.
I'll take what you said under advisement.
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey JimK;
>
> Â I take exception to this! None of this is Manny's fault. Just stay
> out of it unless you have something constructive to say for a
> change....
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Manny, it's all your fault.
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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