Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » That littel green puddle...
| That littel green puddle... [message #83711] |
Sat, 08 May 2010 19:38  |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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So, today was the day to wake Jaws up from hibernation.
There was good news...no evidence of mice for months now. I vacuumed up the stink bugs that had made their way in, and took care of some little chores, including replacing the turn-signal cam (which gave me a chance to play with my recently bought steering lock plate compression tool) and mounting the Ragusa cruise controller on the old stalk. Then, I pulled off the air cleaner to check for mouse remains and to install new spark-plug-wire spacers as a preventative against spark induction. I replaced all the vacuum hoses with expensive orange silicone hoses that are never supposed to get hard and brittle. Everything looked fine...
...except...
...for that little green puddle on the top of the intake just to the left of the thermostat housing. GRRR! I've had that housing on and off several times, over the last coupla years, and each time I have installed it with the typical fiber gasket with a layer of high-temp silicone gasket sealant.
I recall reading some advice from Matt Colie (I think) that suggested silicone on both sides is a mistake, because it causes the gasket to shear with thermal stress and then leak. Is this my problem? It was never a problem before, but it was always an iron housing on an iron manifold before.
What have you guys done to seal your thermostat housing? I do NOT want to tighten it down much, and risk stripping the threads in the manifold. I'm strongly tempted to install studs as it is.
Rick "advice sought" Denney
'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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| Re: That littel green puddle... [message #83727 is a reply to message #83711] |
Sat, 08 May 2010 21:13  |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Rick, in Canada we can buy a special "sealer" (to use instead of or with a gasket)for cooling system uses. Maybe made by Permatex.
Dave King
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: That littel green puddle... [message #83732 is a reply to message #83727] |
Sat, 08 May 2010 21:54 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| kingd wrote on Sat, 08 May 2010 22:13 |
Rick, in Canada we can buy a special "sealer" (to use instead of or with a gasket)for cooling system uses. Maybe made by Permatex.
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I just checked, and I have some Permatex Super 300, which is in the category I call Black Goo sealer. Sound like the stuff?
I think it was Jesse that turned me on to the stuff. I just opened the lid, and had to use Channel Locks to do so, but the black goo is still black and still gooey.
Also, I received some offline advice, including to surface the stat housing (which is easy and I should have done it), and to make my own gasket for better coverage. I think I'll use studs, too, which will make it easier to use a home-made gasket with really tight-fitting holes for the bolts.
And then I'll just put the goo on one surface of the gasket.
Hopefully, that will do it.
Rick "still open to fresh suggestions" Denney
'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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| Re: [GMCnet] That littel green puddle... [message #83733 is a reply to message #83732] |
Sat, 08 May 2010 21:59 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Rick,
Following Matt's suggestion, I got a gasket that had peel off paper ( adhesive factory applied ). I used wet/dry sandpaper, a flat surface and smoothed down the thermostat sealing surface. Then just used a light lubricant on the dry side of the gasket. No leaks. This was with cast iron manifold.
Dennis
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Denney <rick@rickdenney.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 9:54 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] That littel green puddle...
kingd wrote on Sat, 08 May 2010 22:13
Rick, in Canada we can buy a special "sealer" (to use instead of or with a
asket)for cooling system uses. Maybe made by Permatex.
just checked, and I have some Permatex Super 300, which is in the category I
all Black Goo sealer. Sound like the stuff?
I think it was Jesse that turned me on to the stuff. I just opened the lid, and
ad to use Channel Locks to do so, but the black goo is still black and still
ooey.
Also, I received some offline advice, including to surface the stat housing
which is easy and I should have done it), and to make my own gasket for better
overage. I think I'll use studs, too, which will make it easier to use a
ome-made gasket with really tight-fitting holes for the bolts.
And then I'll just put the goo on one surface of the gasket.
Hopefully, that will do it.
Rick "still open to fresh suggestions" Denney
-
73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: That littel green puddle... [message #83806 is a reply to message #83732] |
Sun, 09 May 2010 17:25 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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I'm Ba-ack. . .
I post the trip report later.
Rick,
One of the important things is to have both sides flat and smooth.
Studs or screws make no real difference, use the one that will be easiest to assemble as that way you have one less fight.
Your memory is good about not gluing both sides. Thermal movement WILL HAPPEN, the only way to deal with it is let it happen and try to make the system happy to live with it. If the gasket is glued to both sides, it will shear.
Increased surface area is not worth chasing. Extra area means lower sealing load per unit area on the gasket.
I have a personal preference for sticking the gasket to the side that is easiest to remove and clean. <Yes, I am paranoid, but it serves me well.>
It sounds like you are basically on the right track.
And, How is the new job going??
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: That littel green puddle... [message #83827 is a reply to message #83806] |
Sun, 09 May 2010 19:29 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| mcolie wrote on Sun, 09 May 2010 18:25 |
I have a personal preference for sticking the gasket to the side that is easiest to remove and clean. <Yes, I am paranoid, but it serves me well.>...
...And, How is the new job going??
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In the end, I used studs. I figure the less the threads turn in that aluminum, the less likely they will be to wear the aluminum threads out. Plus, there are always the maximum number of aluminum threads engaged throughout the loading cycle during installation. The studs were a bit long on the top, but that was no problem for installation.
I applied the black gooey stuff (guaranteed not to harden, but not the exact same stuff Dave mentioned) between the neck and the top of the gasket only. There was some erosion on the gasket surface of the neck, perhaps from some prior leak. I smoothed that out rubbing on on sandpaper laying on a machined flat surface.
I think it will be fine now. Looking at the old bolts, I have a suspicion that they were bottoming out in the holes--yet another reason to use studs. I think I used that length because the next shorter size didn't engage enough threads. The iron manifolds are drilled through and the threads have to be sealed, as I recall. They are not in the aluminum manifold, so I think I'm adding using studs on the water neck to my recommendations for use of the aluminum manifold.
I'm going to let the goo set up before running it. (Read: I ran out of daylight anyway). All I did was fill the radiator back up.
Rick "hopefully done with this issue" Denney
'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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| Re: That littel green puddle... [message #83830 is a reply to message #83806] |
Sun, 09 May 2010 19:44 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| mcolie wrote on Sun, 09 May 2010 18:25 |
And, How is the new job going??
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Oops, forgot to respond to this one.
I took the job because I was ready to enter a new (and, I hope, final) phase of my career, to move back to the center of my specialty area in a role where I could have more influence than as a consultant. So far, that is happening even better than I hoped.
And I'm happy to report that I'm finally old enough to see only humor in the silliness that often accompanies working in the public sector. Not being ambitious for promotion (where they hired me, I have nowhere to go unless I want to go into--AAAAACK!--management) helps--there is really nothing to lose.
The commute to Baltimore half of each week is not as bad as I feared, either. It gives me time to listen to the news and think on the way in, and listen to Glenn Beck on the way home on XM-radio. That keeps me from going to sleep, heh.
But it's a more disciplined and much less flexible work environment than I had been used to, so very little playing on GMCnet compared to before.
The really good news is that I was able to negotiate for the maximum vacation rate, so I should be able to use the coach at least as much as before and hopefully more.
Rick "sorry for straying off-topic" Denney
'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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