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[GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83339] Thu, 06 May 2010 11:01 Go to next message
fbhtxak is currently offline  fbhtxak   United States
Messages: 191
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member

I highly recommend Jim's counsel on shock absorbers. His
characterization of how I use my GMCMh is correct. It has
never been subjected to the conditions he described that
result in physical failure of the Bilstein product.

My choice of the Bilstein brand was heavily influenced by
the ride control they provide on premium European cars.
Daimler AG (i.e., Mercedes Benz) used Bilstein and Sachs
shock absorbers on their products that I owned then (almost
20 years ago) and now. For a GMCMh used primarily on "super
slabs" or as a "boulevard cruiser", the ride control is
analogous to that of premium European automobiles.


Fred Hudspeth
'78 Royale - Tyler, TX
'82 Airstream Excella 28' Motorhome - Anchorage, Alaska





Message: 3
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 05:39:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get?
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID: <156840.15016.qm@web112720.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I was not going to get into the "shock wars" here but Fred
brought up an important point.? Yes, if the shock blows out,
Bilstein will honor their warranty and especially if you do
all the things they require and the shock was not
"mistreated".? They deen yanking the eyelet on the end apart
on the rear shock because it was subjected to too much
travel because our rear suspension uses the shock as stop
for?bogy travel.? This is the number one issue on their
shocks and something they do not cover.? You must know that
if you hit a huge pothole with the rear suspension and the
shock is overextended you will be hooped on the warranty.

Fred drives his coach as it should be, on the flat, good
road.? I know how he treats his machine, he understand the
limits but many of the coaches out there in the real world
see service that they should not and there is the rub I have
with Bilstein shocks.? Can't tell ya why other than to say
the eyelet on the KYB shoch is of better construction but
they do not rip out like the Bilsteins do.? Have never seen
KYB damage the way I heve from the Bilsteins.? Sorry but
that is a fact and in that folks used to come by wanting
their shocks warrantied.? Wanting to help my customers I
would trade them out, charge for the install and a couple of
bucks for shipping one way, sent them back and got no
satisfaction.? it only takes a dozen or so losses like that
to sour my opinion for Bilstein.? Maybe I should have shown
the customer the problem and refused to trade out their
shocks-- then I would be the bad guy!? My feeling is to just
stay away from them
alltogether.? i have to down them because when it was
important they did not support me.

Just like anything, if you do not support me do not expect
me to support you!? I inventory KYB shocks, not Bilstein!

Jim Bounds
--------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: Fred Hudspeth <fbhtxak@sbcglobal.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 2:29:07 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get?

This is NOT an endorsement for Bilstein shock absorbers.? I
noted, however, some concern about Bilstein's warranty
service.

I have found them to satisfactorily comply with the terms of
their warranty contract. I have had to replace two shock
absorbers in the almost twenty years since I installed them.
I replaced those two when they began to drip hydraulic fluid
on the garage floor. I replaced the first one in May '03 and
the second in Feb.'10. Bilstein readily complied with my
request for a replacement shock absorber on both occasions..

Here is the contact at Bilstein for warranty service:

Justin Diczhazy - (858)386-5951
Justin.Diczhazy@thyssenkrupp.com
ThyssenKrupp Bilstein of America
Customer Service Aftermarket Division
1402 Stowe Drive
Poway, CA 92604


The warranty contract provides for the customer to pay the
shipping charge to return the defective shock to Bilstein
(about $10 from Zip 75703 to 92064 in Feb.'10). Bilstein
pays the return shipping charge.

Fred Hudspeth
'78 Royale - Tyler, TX
'82 Airstream Excella 28' Motorhome - Anchorage, Alaska

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Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83343 is a reply to message #83339] Thu, 06 May 2010 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philipswanson is currently offline  philipswanson   United States
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Registered: January 2004
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Senior Member
I live relatively close to the Bilstein plant in Poway and have been taking shocks back on warranty over the course of many years. I can tell you that our shocks are no longer manufactured at that plant. When a shock is returned there, if the ends are not ripped out and you have proper proof of retail purchase, they will normally just rebuild it for you. If they can't rebuild it, it takes up to two months for them to get a replacement. They feel the same way about us that we do about them. We have been a PITA for them too and they hate the GMC rear suspension. They feel too many of us run around with coaches too high or low. Also, if you ever lower the coach with low air in the bags, these shocks extend and lock up almost every time. Bottom line is don't use Bilsteins, at least on the rear because the stroke was designed too short for this application. They seem to last a long time if you maintain proper ride height at all times. But who does?
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83385 is a reply to message #83339] Thu, 06 May 2010 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
Senior Member
I have the Bilsteins and they ride great and I haven't broken any yet. However, I wish they had just a touch more control stiffness though. I also put them on my 97 Tahoe and got the 'comfort ride' verision and with I had bought the stiffer 'handling' version as there is a choice of 2 settings for this vehicle. On the GMC the rears with 4 seem to have enough control, but if I had to do again I'd try KYBs up front for ride reasons.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83399 is a reply to message #83385] Thu, 06 May 2010 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philipswanson is currently offline  philipswanson   United States
Messages: 282
Registered: January 2004
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Senior Member
I went to Bilstein today and spoke with one of their engineers. According to him, the #1 reason the rear shocks break is jacking up the rear of the coach without letting the air out of the bags and not installing blocks between the boogie and center mount. When the coach is jacked up in the rear and the wheels are left to hang freely with air pushing from the bag as well, the shocks are compressed to the point that the retaining ring and/or body fail. Wes Caughlin talked about this in detail back in June 2004 in the Cinnabar newsletter #40 which I highly recommend re-reading. I am not defending Bilsteins, but this is their view.
I am sure this is not good for any shock regardless of brand.

Phil Swanson
77GMCPB
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83404 is a reply to message #83399] Thu, 06 May 2010 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
If you have a shock that cannot handle a normal lifting without
failing, then it should not be on the market with a Lifetime warranty.
We use a metal plate to support the boggie arms when we lift the coach
as it saves us lifting,still they manage to fail on majority.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Phil Swanson <woodyman1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> I went to Bilstein today and spoke with one of their engineers.  According to him, the #1 reason the rear shocks break is jacking up the rear of the coach without letting the air out of the bags and not installing blocks between the boogie and center mount.  When the coach is jacked up in the rear and the wheels are left to hang freely with air pushing from the bag as well, the shocks are compressed to the point that the retaining ring and/or body fail.  Wes Caughlin talked about this in detail back in June 2004 in the Cinnabar newsletter #40 which I highly recommend re-reading.  I am not defending Bilsteins, but this is their view.
> I am sure this is not good for any shock regardless of brand.
>
> Phil Swanson
> 77GMCPB
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83406 is a reply to message #83404] Thu, 06 May 2010 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles is currently offline  Charles   United States
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Jim,
I wondered if Phil asked Bilstein why their shocks fail
and KYB's don't? Back to stroke length. You
can only stretch a Band-Aid so far before it will break.
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Kanomata" <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get?


> If you have a shock that cannot handle a normal lifting without
> failing, then it should not be on the market with a Lifetime warranty.
> We use a metal plate to support the boggie arms when we lift the coach
> as it saves us lifting,still they manage to fail on majority.
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Phil Swanson <woodyman1@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I went to Bilstein today and spoke with one of their engineers. According
>> to him, the #1 reason the rear shocks break is jacking up the rear of the
>> coach without letting the air out of the bags and not installing blocks
>> between the boogie and center mount. When the coach is jacked up in the
>> rear and the wheels are left to hang freely with air pushing from the bag
>> as well, the shocks are compressed to the point that the retaining ring
>> and/or body fail. Wes Caughlin talked about this in detail back in June
>> 2004 in the Cinnabar newsletter #40 which I highly recommend re-reading.
>> I am not defending Bilsteins, but this is their view.
>> I am sure this is not good for any shock regardless of brand.
>>
>> Phil Swanson
>> 77GMCPB
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box

Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83412 is a reply to message #83406] Thu, 06 May 2010 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
This reminds me of the Original 4 bag system versus the Q Bag of ours.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Charles <gcw13@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Jim,
> I wondered if Phil asked Bilstein why their shocks fail
> and KYB's don't? Back to stroke length. You
> can only stretch a Band-Aid so far before it will break.
> Charles
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Kanomata" <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get?
>
>
>> If you have a shock that cannot handle a normal lifting without
>> failing, then it should not be on the market with a Lifetime warranty.
>> We use a metal plate to support the boggie arms when we lift the coach
>> as it saves us lifting,still they manage to fail on majority.
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Phil Swanson <woodyman1@sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I went to Bilstein today and spoke with one of their engineers. According
>>> to him, the #1 reason the rear shocks break is jacking up the rear of the
>>> coach without letting the air out of the bags and not installing blocks
>>> between the boogie and center mount. When the coach is jacked up in the
>>> rear and the wheels are left to hang freely with air pushing from the bag
>>> as well, the shocks are compressed to the point that the retaining ring
>>> and/or body fail. Wes Caughlin talked about this in detail back in June
>>> 2004 in the Cinnabar newsletter #40 which I highly recommend re-reading.
>>> I am not defending Bilsteins, but this is their view.
>>> I am sure this is not good for any shock regardless of brand.
>>>
>>> Phil Swanson
>>> 77GMCPB
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmc.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83418 is a reply to message #83399] Thu, 06 May 2010 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
philipswanson wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 20:39

I went to Bilstein today and spoke with one of their engineers. According to him, the #1 reason the rear shocks break is jacking up the rear of the coach without letting the air out of the bags and not installing blocks between the boogie and center mount. When the coach is jacked up in the rear and the wheels are left to hang freely with air pushing from the bag as well, the shocks are compressed to the point that the retaining ring and/or body fail. Wes Caughlin talked about this in detail back in June 2004 in the Cinnabar newsletter #40 which I highly recommend re-reading. I am not defending Bilsteins, but this is their view.
I am sure this is not good for any shock regardless of brand.

Phil Swanson
77GMCPB

I had two Bilsteins (on opposite sides) leak while parked inside on concrete over the winter. No jacking, no nothing, just sitting there inside in the cold winter. I got the standard pre-printed note back from Bilstein about improper jacking.


When I do jack up the rear, I always completely deflate the air bag prior to raising the rear coach on a jack. My rear ride height is set perfectly. I slide a jack under the center of the two rear wheels and raise the coach about 1". Then I remove the air line from the bag. After the air is gone I finish raising the coach on the jack to the desired height.

I feel that this pre-printed note from Bilstein is a cop out to cover up a failing product.

JMHO


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83421 is a reply to message #83418] Thu, 06 May 2010 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Ken,
I agree with you on the cop out.
KYB has not learned that trick yet.
The other cop out is to ask the customer to send back the noisy unit
so they can inspect it.
If it is found to be defective, they will pay for the freight. When
they get it back it is now quiet and they charge them for the freight
as they found nothing wrong.
If we pulled that BS on people they would have me put on a slow ship to Japan


.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> philipswanson wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 20&#58;39
>> I went to Bilstein today and spoke with one of their engineers.  According to him, the #1 reason the rear shocks break is jacking up the rear of the coach without letting the air out of the bags and not installing blocks between the boogie and center mount.  When the coach is jacked up in the rear and the wheels are left to hang freely with air pushing from the bag as well, the shocks are compressed to the point that the retaining ring and/or body fail.  Wes Caughlin talked about this in detail back in June 2004 in the Cinnabar newsletter #40 which I highly recommend re-reading.  I am not defending Bilsteins, but this is their view.
>> I am sure this is not good for any shock regardless of brand.
>>
>> Phil Swanson
>> 77GMCPB
>
> I had two Bilsteins (on opposite sides) leak while parked inside on concrete over the winter.  No jacking, no nothing, just sitting there inside in the cold winter.  I got the standard pre-printed note back from Bilstein about improper jacking.
>
>
> When I do jack up the rear, I always completely deflate the air bag prior to raising the rear coach on a jack.  My rear ride height is set perfectly.  I slide a jack under the center of the two rear wheels and raise the coach about 1".  Then I remove the air line from the bag.  After the air is gone I finish raising the coach on the jack to the desired height.
>
> I feel that this pre-printed note from Bilstein is a cop out to cover up a failing product.
>
> JMHO
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83442 is a reply to message #83421] Fri, 07 May 2010 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Bounds is currently offline  Jim Bounds   United States
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Phil,

I would love to talk to that engineer, that is BS in itself.  The stress put on the shock when lifting the coach and allowing the pressure of the air bag to be put on the shock is nothing-- bouncing up and down during driving is what takes them out, that is obvious.  Yes, GM should not have made the shock be the limiter of the suspension--- but it is.  Yes, while it may not be Bilsteins spec. to have their shock be that limiter here we are and it is.  They should manufacture a shock that WIll in fact "hold the smoke" or just not produce one at all!  They could put a disclaimer note in the box with their shock but they also do not do that so hey, we end up eating those shocks.  No sir, I do not want to put my customers in harms way!

The same way I would not recommend a Robertshaw thermostat.  Got burned on that one and I learned from it!  The GMC specific parts suppliers have a duty to steer their customers away from harms reach on these specialty parts and as far as shocks go that means talking about KYB and not recommending Bilstein!

Do with my suggestions what you will,

Jim Bounds
--------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 11:25:57 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get?

Ken,
I agree with you on the cop out.
KYB has not learned that trick yet.
The other cop out is to ask the customer to send back the noisy unit
so they can inspect it.
If it is found to be defective, they will pay for the freight. When
they get it back it is now quiet and they charge them for the freight
as they found nothing wrong.
If we pulled that BS on people they would have me put on a slow ship to Japan


.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> philipswanson wrote on Thu, 06 May 2010 20:39
>> I went to Bilstein today and spoke with one of their engineers.  According to him, the #1 reason the rear shocks break is jacking up the rear of the coach without letting the air out of the bags and not installing blocks between the boogie and center mount.  When the coach is jacked up in the rear and the wheels are left to hang freely with air pushing from the bag as well, the shocks are compressed to the point that the retaining ring and/or body fail.  Wes Caughlin talked about this in detail back in June 2004 in the Cinnabar newsletter #40 which I highly recommend re-reading.  I am not defending Bilsteins, but this is their view.
>> I am sure this is not good for any shock regardless of brand.
>>
>> Phil Swanson
>> 77GMCPB
>
> I had two Bilsteins (on opposite sides) leak while parked inside on concrete over the winter.  No jacking, no nothing, just sitting there inside in the cold winter.  I got the standard pre-printed note back from Bilstein about improper jacking.
>
>
> When I do jack up the rear, I always completely deflate the air bag prior to raising the rear coach on a jack.  My rear ride height is set perfectly.  I slide a jack under the center of the two rear wheels and raise the coach about 1".  Then I remove the air line from the bag.  After the air is gone I finish raising the coach on the jack to the desired height.
>
> I feel that this pre-printed note from Bilstein is a cop out to cover up a failing product.
>
> JMHO
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83780 is a reply to message #83442] Sun, 09 May 2010 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philipswanson is currently offline  philipswanson   United States
Messages: 282
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Jim,

What did you learn about Robertshaw thermostats?

I did ask the Bilstein engineer about why the KYBs are not failing and he said they used a stroke that was not right for the GMCs. I guess that's about what you would expect from a company man. It does appear that Bilstein shocks were never designed to be the stop for the whole coach, front or rear. There probably aren't many vehicles that don't have some kind of a positive stop like Wes says in his article. I doubt that the KYBs are that tough either but probably get away with it because of the longer stroke. Who knows.

I am running Bilsteins on the right rear and KYBs on the left rear. We will see what happens. Doing a cross country trip in June. I think your view on Bilsteins is spot on but proof's in the pudding. I never had a problem with a Bilstein shock up front nor a Robertshaw thermostat but I do drill a small bypass hole in the thermostats to relieve excess pressure.

Phil Swanson
77 GMCPB
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83783 is a reply to message #83339] Sun, 09 May 2010 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
Senior Member
What did you learn about Robertshaw thermostats?

IIRC they hard fail in the 'CLOSED' mode rather than the 'OPEN' mode.


John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83793 is a reply to message #83783] Sun, 09 May 2010 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philipswanson is currently offline  philipswanson   United States
Messages: 282
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
So what brand thermostat is in vogue now for the GMC? I hope it isn't the Motor Rad, because that one never worked for me.

Phil Swanson
77GMCPB
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83824 is a reply to message #83780] Sun, 09 May 2010 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
G'day,

Just want to get this straight in my mind so: the rear shock absorbers
compress when the wheels hit a bump and extend when you jack the coach up.

The longer stroke of the KYB's allows the bogie arms to drop further and
since they don't snap off the eyes like the Bilsteins one could assume that
the amount they can drop is beyond the normal amount they travel when
driving down the road.

However, if you were to jack the coach with full pressure in the bag would
the KYBs be the stop or would the bogie arm hit the bogie casing?

Another way of asking this is: If you disconnect the KYB upper attachment
point with it fully extended would the bogie drop further?

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Phil Swanson
Sent: Monday, 10 May 2010 2:19 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get?

Jim,

What did you learn about Robertshaw thermostats?

I did ask the Bilstein engineer about why the KYBs are not failing and he
said they used a stroke that was not right for the GMCs. I guess that's
about what you would expect from a company man. It does appear that
Bilstein shocks were never designed to be the stop for the whole coach,
front or rear. There probably aren't many vehicles that don't have some kind
of a positive stop like Wes says in his article. I doubt that the KYBs are
that tough either but probably get away with it because of the longer
stroke. Who knows.

I am running Bilsteins on the right rear and KYBs on the left rear. We will
see what happens. Doing a cross country trip in June. I think your view on
Bilsteins is spot on but proof's in the pudding. I never had a problem with
a Bilstein shock up front nor a Robertshaw thermostat but I do drill a small
bypass hole in the thermostats to relieve excess pressure.

Phil Swanson
77 GMCPB
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83853 is a reply to message #83783] Sun, 09 May 2010 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philipswanson is currently offline  philipswanson   United States
Messages: 282
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 09 May 2010 11:33

What did you learn about Robertshaw thermostats?

IIRC they hard fail in the 'CLOSED' mode rather than the 'OPEN' mode.


The only thermostat that I know of that doesn't do this is the Fail Safe by Motor Rad. I tried one of these and the flow was way too low for the GMC and it stuck open very quickly in colder weather. Any alternatives? When thermostats go bad, unfortunately, almost always, they stick closed. So what's different about the Robertshaw other than it having very good flow? Guess I have been lucky, I never had any problems with a Robertshaw.

Phil Swanson
77GMCPB
Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83880 is a reply to message #83824] Mon, 10 May 2010 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steven Ferguson is currently offline  Steven Ferguson   United States
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Think backwards on the rears Rob.

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> G'day,
>
> Just want to get this straight in my mind so: the rear shock absorbers
> compress when the wheels hit a bump and extend when you jack the coach up.
>
> The longer stroke of the KYB's allows the bogie arms to drop further and
> since they don't snap off the eyes like the Bilsteins one could assume that
> the amount they can drop is beyond the normal amount they travel when
> driving down the road.
>
> However, if you were to jack the coach with full pressure in the bag would
> the KYBs be the stop or would the bogie arm hit the bogie casing?
>
> Another way of asking this is: If you disconnect the KYB upper attachment
> point with it fully extended would the bogie drop further?
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Phil Swanson
> Sent: Monday, 10 May 2010 2:19 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get?
>
> Jim,
>
>  What did you learn about Robertshaw thermostats?
>
> I did ask the Bilstein engineer about why the KYBs are not failing and he
> said they used a stroke that was not right for the GMCs.  I guess that's
> about what you would expect from a company man.  It does appear that
> Bilstein shocks were never designed to be the stop for the whole coach,
> front or rear. There probably aren't many vehicles that don't have some kind
> of a positive stop like Wes says in his article.  I doubt that the KYBs are
> that tough either but probably get away with it because of the longer
> stroke.  Who knows.
>
> I am running Bilsteins on the right rear and KYBs on the left rear.  We will
> see what happens.  Doing a cross country trip in June.  I think your view on
> Bilsteins is spot on but proof's in the pudding.  I never had a problem with
> a Bilstein shock up front nor a Robertshaw thermostat but I do drill a small
> bypass hole in the thermostats to relieve excess pressure.
>
> Phil Swanson
> 77 GMCPB
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get? [message #83884 is a reply to message #83880] Mon, 10 May 2010 05:07 Go to previous message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Steve,

DOUH!

I looked at the picture of the Quad bag setup on Jim K's website again and
again and again and still got it wrong!

So when you jack up the coach the air bags force the shock to the fully
compressed position!

Now I can't understand why Bilstein would say incorrect jacking causes the
eyes to get ripped off!

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Ferguson
Sent: Monday, 10 May 2010 6:10 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best Shocks to get?

Think backwards on the rears Rob.

--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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