Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag
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| Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag [message #82227 is a reply to message #82209] |
Wed, 28 April 2010 07:31   |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I was not at the ES rally and did not have benifit of the talk about air bags and this single bag system. I have installed a blue million systems though and in trying to sift through this thread I wanted to make a couple of observations:
o SAFETY-- This is the number 1 feature I want in a suspension system. If you blow a bag, usually you are on the side of the road purchasing property. At least it's that way with the original Firestone bag. You are off the road for 2 reasons--
first the suspension is down & in the case of a 73 coach your tire is resting on the wheel liner and in the rest of the models everything is so close that well, I would not move.
Next, to get going again some action will need to take place either replacement of the air bag with another one or at least propping up the suspension to increase clearances
This problem exists in the original air bag system, the dual bag system and if the new single bag system has similar down travel to the original system it too will suffer from this problem. The Quad bag system does not have this affliction, if you want a safer system your choic3e has to be the qyuad bagger
o MAINTENANCE-- If you still run with original air bags yo had better have an extra air bag or a fence post on board. You will not find a replacement air bag at any on the road store. Same goes for the original 4 bag system having a non in line bolt pattern on the mounting system. The quad and dual bag systems can have replacement bags found at most any truck stop, RV dealer or anyone who carries Firestone "Ride Rite" components. It is a standard "off shelf" PART. If needed, is the air bag used in the new single bag system easily found? Can you find a replacement when you need it? This feature is extremely important to keep your coach on the road and is something that was thought through in the design of the quad and dual bag systems.
o PERFORMANCE-- The original 4 bagger was called a "performance enhancement" in that is afforded increased stability to the rear suspension though it did make the ride stiffer because of it's increased bag pressures. The quad bag system answered this ride issue by reducing bag pressure and thus the vibration "coupling" effect the higher bag pressures made. The quad bag system is highly recommended is you are looking to tow, especially if the towd is heavy. It increasesyour stability, you cannot say this for the original single bag system mainly because of it's concept of operation. If I am looking to spend big bucks and whichever rear suspension system you consider they are all "big bucks" to me why not get one that offers value added features? Are there value added features on the new single bag system?
Hey look, this is a very narrow, niche industry. there is not that much room for many competing products. At this point we have 5 different rear suspension systems if you include the die hards still trying to maintain the original 2 bag system. Thats too many fractures in the category. As time goes on, the "cream" should rise to the top. The Quad bag system because of it's increased safety, increased maintenance capability and increased performance should end up being the suspension of choice. Yes, it costs more but in the big picture when doing a complete coach update (and the older our girls get the more will need more upgrades), the additional cost of the system compared to how much is being spent to bring the coach to a reliable, comfortable, servicable condition is a drop in the proverbial bucket. I'm not making light of the cost but the dang thing is just the best mouse trap out there!
In the case of the "dual bag" system, it is the stepping stone to an eventual complete quad bag system for those that want to ease into the expense side of having the better mouse trap. For that, the dual bag system is #2 in my book cause it is not the end in itself but keeps you on the road while collecting more aluminum cans.
With the cost of the new single bag system actually a bit more than the dual bagger and it being the end product, I must say even without seeing and experiencing this new system that at the least the dual bag system should get a check over it and the quad bagger for those that can swing the cost should be the obvious choice. The marketing of products needs to make sense on many planes, not just cause it's new and cool.
It took piles of work, thinking, and work to come up with the quad bag system, years of successes and failures and all that time has brought us where we are today. for safety, maintenance and performance I still have to side with the quad bag system. Of course we live in America and we can all do what we want no matter how it may sound but I can debate rear suspension all day , I've got the scares from douing the work and I cannot see how anyone could convince me the quad bag system is not the top shelf system.
I would be most interesed in input on how the systems compare but at this point I am still "Quad Bagging" my suspensions,
Jim Bounds
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| Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag [message #82229 is a reply to message #82209] |
Wed, 28 April 2010 07:56 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Someone should put together some type of outline showing all of the air bag types available along with the pro's and con's of each. Will they work with "X" size tires, etc. etc.
My brain is fried from trying to follow all of this.....course, that doesn't take much these days ! LOL
But seriously, it would be nice to be able to see a total comparison.
Just a thought.
Have a great day !!!
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Richard Brown <wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 12:59:58 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag
I would, if I could afford it. It would be at the back of a long list of higher-priority parts that I need.
Richard & Carol Brown
PO Box 941
Lindale, TX. 75771
1974 GMC Eleganza SE (DILLIGAF)
wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net
(903)881-0192
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag [message #82244 is a reply to message #82227] |
Wed, 28 April 2010 09:33 |
 |
hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim;
Thank You
Howard
Alpine CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Bounds" <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag
I was not at the ES rally and did not have benifit of the talk about air
bags and this single bag system. I have installed a blue million systems
though and in trying to sift through this thread I wanted to make a couple
of observations:
o SAFETY-- This is the number 1 feature I want in a suspension system. If
you blow a bag, usually you are on the side of the road purchasing property.
At least it's that way with the original Firestone bag. You are off the road
for 2 reasons--
first the suspension is down & in the case of a 73 coach your tire is
resting on the wheel liner and in the rest of the models everything is so
close that well, I would not move.
Next, to get going again some action will need to take place either
replacement of the air bag with another one or at least propping up the
suspension to increase clearances
This problem exists in the original air bag system, the dual bag system and
if the new single bag system has similar down travel to the original system
it too will suffer from this problem. The Quad bag system does not have this
affliction, if you want a safer system your choic3e has to be the qyuad
bagger
o MAINTENANCE-- If you still run with original air bags yo had better have
an extra air bag or a fence post on board. You will not find a replacement
air bag at any on the road store. Same goes for the original 4 bag system
having a non in line bolt pattern on the mounting system. The quad and dual
bag systems can have replacement bags found at most any truck stop, RV
dealer or anyone who carries Firestone "Ride Rite" components. It is a
standard "off shelf" PART. If needed, is the air bag used in the new single
bag system easily found? Can you find a replacement when you need it? This
feature is extremely important to keep your coach on the road and is
something that was thought through in the design of the quad and dual bag
systems.
o PERFORMANCE-- The original 4 bagger was called a "performance enhancement"
in that is afforded increased stability to the rear suspension though it did
make the ride stiffer because of it's increased bag pressures. The quad bag
system answered this ride issue by reducing bag pressure and thus the
vibration "coupling" effect the higher bag pressures made. The quad bag
system is highly recommended is you are looking to tow, especially if the
towd is heavy. It increasesyour stability, you cannot say this for the
original single bag system mainly because of it's concept of operation. If I
am looking to spend big bucks and whichever rear suspension system you
consider they are all "big bucks" to me why not get one that offers value
added features? Are there value added features on the new single bag system?
Hey look, this is a very narrow, niche industry. there is not that much room
for many competing products. At this point we have 5 different rear
suspension systems if you include the die hards still trying to maintain the
original 2 bag system. Thats too many fractures in the category. As time
goes on, the "cream" should rise to the top. The Quad bag system because of
it's increased safety, increased maintenance capability and increased
performance should end up being the suspension of choice. Yes, it costs more
but in the big picture when doing a complete coach update (and the older our
girls get the more will need more upgrades), the additional cost of the
system compared to how much is being spent to bring the coach to a reliable,
comfortable, servicable condition is a drop in the proverbial bucket. I'm
not making light of the cost but the dang thing is just the best mouse trap
out there!
In the case of the "dual bag" system, it is the stepping stone to an
eventual complete quad bag system for those that want to ease into the
expense side of having the better mouse trap. For that, the dual bag system
is #2 in my book cause it is not the end in itself but keeps you on the road
while collecting more aluminum cans.
With the cost of the new single bag system actually a bit more than the dual
bagger and it being the end product, I must say even without seeing and
experiencing this new system that at the least the dual bag system should
get a check over it and the quad bagger for those that can swing the cost
should be the obvious choice. The marketing of products needs to make sense
on many planes, not just cause it's new and cool.
It took piles of work, thinking, and work to come up with the quad bag
system, years of successes and failures and all that time has brought us
where we are today. for safety, maintenance and performance I still have to
side with the quad bag system. Of course we live in America and we can all
do what we want no matter how it may sound but I can debate rear suspension
all day , I've got the scares from douing the work and I cannot see how
anyone could convince me the quad bag system is not the top shelf system.
I would be most interesed in input on how the systems compare but at this
point I am still "Quad Bagging" my suspensions,
Jim Bounds
----------------------
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List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag [message #82253 is a reply to message #82248] |
Wed, 28 April 2010 10:21 |
Terry Skinner
Messages: 379
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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My thought exactly. 15 years ago I purchased two new bags and
installed them on my GMC. They have given me no trouble at all. The
ride is just as good now as when purchased. This is not a sports car.
It doesn't need to stop on a dime and give you 6 cents change. Same
with the suspension. Close to original works good. Try some of the
things you are asking of our GMCs with a diesel pusher or a van
conversion. They don't corner or brake worth a hoot. If it tickles
your fancy to mess around with this stuff so you can enter the Baja
1000 more power to ya but don't scare off the normal people. Think
about it. If a bag costs $500 and lasts 15/20 years that's about $30 a
year. thats cheap. Taking the wife out to breakfast once costs more
than that..........Terry
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey;
>
> Any chance of a group buy on this thing??
>
>
>> Hey look, this is a very narrow, niche industry. there is not that much room for many competing products. At this point we have 5 different rear suspension systems if you include the die hards still trying to maintain the original 2 bag system. Thats too many fractures in the category. As time goes on, the "cream" should rise to the top. The Quad bag system because of it's increased safety, increased maintenance capability and increased performance should end up being the suspension of choice. Yes, it costs more but in the big picture when doing a complete coach update (and the older our girls get the more will need more upgrades), the additional cost of the system compared to how much is being spent to bring the coach to a reliable, comfortable, servicable condition is a drop in the proverbial bucket. I'm not making light of the cost but the dang thing is just the best mouse trap out there!
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag [message #82260 is a reply to message #82253] |
Wed, 28 April 2010 11:03 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Good way of putting it Terry......$30 per year sounds much better to a cheapskate guy like me !! Heck, each box of my good cigars is more than that and I don't even question it !!!!!
Have a great day !!!
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Terry Skinner <gmcnut@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 10:21:42 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag
My thought exactly. 15 years ago I purchased two new bags and
installed them on my GMC. They have given me no trouble at all. The
ride is just as good now as when purchased. This is not a sports car.
It doesn't need to stop on a dime and give you 6 cents change. Same
with the suspension. Close to original works good. Try some of the
things you are asking of our GMCs with a diesel pusher or a van
conversion. They don't corner or brake worth a hoot. If it tickles
your fancy to mess around with this stuff so you can enter the Baja
1000 more power to ya but don't scare off the normal people. Think
about it. If a bag costs $500 and lasts 15/20 years that's about $30 a
year. thats cheap. Taking the wife out to breakfast once costs more
than that..........Terry
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey;
>
> Any chance of a group buy on this thing??
>
>
>> Hey look, this is a very narrow, niche industry. there is not that much room for many competing products. At this point we have 5 different rear suspension systems if you include the die hards still trying to maintain the original 2 bag system. Thats too many fractures in the category. As time goes on, the "cream" should rise to the top. The Quad bag system because of it's increased safety, increased maintenance capability and increased performance should end up being the suspension of choice. Yes, it costs more but in the big picture when doing a complete coach update (and the older our girls get the more will need more upgrades), the additional cost of the system compared to how much is being spent to bring the coach to a reliable, comfortable, servicable condition is a drop in the proverbial bucket. I'm not making light of the cost but the dang thing is just the best mouse trap out there!
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag [message #82267 is a reply to message #82253] |
Wed, 28 April 2010 11:56 |
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My coach had an original bag and one replacement when I replaced the bags
two years ago. At least, one looked original and one (with supporting
documentation) looked newer. That said, you know how long the original
lasted. At the end of 10 years its how much you spent that defines the cost,
not the initial purchase price.
JimB is correct in stating the Q-bag is the safest and sturdiest. It ought
to be. JimB also has some interest in the Q-bag that I don't have so I
expect him to speak in support of that product.
As I wrote another fellow, it's all about how we choose to manage risk. To
that person I also posed this question. Which has the greater chance of
happening; a bag problem, a fire or an accident? A Q-bag doesn't stop a fire
or an accident. A fire extinguisher doesn't protect against a bag failure or
an accident. An accident, depending on the type, may make the suspension and
fire suppression a moot issue.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Terry Skinner wrote:
> My thought exactly. 15 years ago I purchased two new bags and
> installed them on my GMC. They have given me no trouble at all. The
> ride is just as good now as when purchased. This is not a sports car.
> It doesn't need to stop on a dime and give you 6 cents change. Same
> with the suspension. Close to original works good. Try some of the
> things you are asking of our GMCs with a diesel pusher or a van
> conversion. They don't corner or brake worth a hoot. If it tickles
> your fancy to mess around with this stuff so you can enter the Baja
> 1000 more power to ya but don't scare off the normal people. Think
> about it. If a bag costs $500 and lasts 15/20 years that's about $30 a
> year. thats cheap. Taking the wife out to breakfast once costs more
> than that..........Terry
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag [message #82321 is a reply to message #82253] |
Wed, 28 April 2010 17:39 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Terry,
yes and I still have original bags on my coach "JayGee" but when I need to replace them and I hope I am around long enough to do so, I will them retrofit the coach with the quad bag mainly because it is safer-- I probably will not care that I can replace a bag-- heck I don;t think I will live that long and you are right-- these are motorhomes for Gods sake-- but it is fun to dig into a corner and move all the stuff in the coach from one side to the other! At some point, everyone will need to retrofit their coach to keep it on the road. Thats just a fact of life. If you're gonna do something it stands to reason to do it well
Jim Bounds
-----------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Terry Skinner <gmcnut@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 11:21:42 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag
My thought exactly. 15 years ago I purchased two new bags and
installed them on my GMC. They have given me no trouble at all. The
ride is just as good now as when purchased. This is not a sports car.
It doesn't need to stop on a dime and give you 6 cents change. Same
with the suspension. Close to original works good. Try some of the
things you are asking of our GMCs with a diesel pusher or a van
conversion. They don't corner or brake worth a hoot. If it tickles
your fancy to mess around with this stuff so you can enter the Baja
1000 more power to ya but don't scare off the normal people. Think
about it. If a bag costs $500 and lasts 15/20 years that's about $30 a
year. thats cheap. Taking the wife out to breakfast once costs more
than that..........Terry
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey;
>
> Any chance of a group buy on this thing??
>
>
>> Hey look, this is a very narrow, niche industry. there is not that much room for many competing products. At this point we have 5 different rear suspension systems if you include the die hards still trying to maintain the original 2 bag system. Thats too many fractures in the category. As time goes on, the "cream" should rise to the top. The Quad bag system because of it's increased safety, increased maintenance capability and increased performance should end up being the suspension of choice. Yes, it costs more but in the big picture when doing a complete coach update (and the older our girls get the more will need more upgrades), the additional cost of the system compared to how much is being spent to bring the coach to a reliable, comfortable, servicable condition is a drop in the proverbial bucket. I'm not making light of the cost but the dang thing is just the best mouse trap out there!
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag [message #82322 is a reply to message #82248] |
Wed, 28 April 2010 17:47 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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Group buy-- hey you're talking to us here, not some big brother despensing stuff on how many you buy. This is a small quantity production part. It is produced specifically for you, the GMC community. It is frightfully expensive to produce in the small volume they are made in and I tell you now no one is getting rich (making a big profit) off of any of the air bag systems. If there were production quantities in the thousands then there is profit in the quantity but guys-- come on, there's just no water in this stuff.
I know-- we could have a beer party quad bag installation rally, everyone who buys a quad bag could get free admission-- you could all watch while Jim & I installed all the systems-- no wait, we did that at Dothan!
But really, I think Jim K. and everyone involved have done a great job at bringing a superior product to market. It was designed, tested, manufactured and promoted all within the GMC community. Many GMC owners had a hand at all the steps of offering the quad bag system, I for one am proud of my part.
It's a product you should be proud to own,
Jim Bounds
-----------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 10:35:32 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Single Cone Air Bag
Hey;
Any chance of a group buy on this thing??
> Hey look, this is a very narrow, niche industry. there is not that much room for many competing products. At this point we have 5 different rear suspension systems if you include the die hards still trying to maintain the original 2 bag system. Thats too many fractures in the category. As time goes on, the "cream" should rise to the top. The Quad bag system because of it's increased safety, increased maintenance capability and increased performance should end up being the suspension of choice. Yes, it costs more but in the big picture when doing a complete coach update (and the older our girls get the more will need more upgrades), the additional cost of the system compared to how much is being spent to bring the coach to a reliable, comfortable, servicable condition is a drop in the proverbial bucket. I'm not making light of the cost but the dang thing is just the best mouse trap out there!
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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