Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 ( Chemicals we use and our health (a bit off toipic but maybe you guys know))
| Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #81841] |
Sun, 25 April 2010 17:05  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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We've taken on a big contract at work and we are using birch wood, aluminum, Wisonart laminate, contact cement, Lexan, laquer paint, and steel in these racks we are building. I'm not applying the Loctite directly but we get them over from our other shop same or next day. I have burning in nose and lungs, lips are swelling, a cayenne pepper sensation and a sweet taste that won't go away for like 3 days after exposure. My sense of taste and smell is all in havoc. I know Loctite has that sweet taste and odor as there is Propylene glycol in there as well as Sacharrin. I can see the chemicals on the MSDS but don't know what other chemicals are formed and released during the anerobic reaction of polymerization. Does anyone know???I'm guessing they are worse than what is listed as contents. The symptoms I am having are listed on the data sheet as reactions but I'm really sensitive to this stuff and it isn't really bothering anyone else. I called Loctite and asked about the low odor 2423 but she didn't say or know if it would be better. I'm getting in a sample of stick Loctite from McMaster tomorrow to try as there should be no liquid spillover. I can't put my finger on what is causing this but the sweet taste is leaning me toward this as the cause. Does anyone know about Lexan and offgasing? I know shops have problems with using tint film on it as it offgasses and forms bubbles. Could this be the problem? I don't think so as it would choke and poison our astronauts. I'll have to do more testing but I can't get near these things. The laquer paint has never bothered me before so I've sort of ruled that out. HELP!
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #81846 is a reply to message #81841] |
Sun, 25 April 2010 17:35  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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With that many components involved, anything could be causing it. The possible reactions are endless, and short of going through them one by one, and then using different combinations, I think it would be pretty hard to say what is causing these symptoms. You certainly could contact OSHA, but unless you want to completely disrupt your shop for a long time, you might not want to do that!
Obviously, if you can stay away from the area, all the better. The sensitivities you are experiencing are not to be fooled with!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #81862 is a reply to message #81841] |
Sun, 25 April 2010 19:33 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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John,
Hamilton Standard (HS) in Windsor Locks, Connecticut made the Portable Life
Support System (PLSS) and International Latex Corporation (ILC) in Dover,
Delaware made the space suit for Project Apollo. You are correct the helmets
were made of Lexan.
I worked for HS as a Field Rep at the Johnson Spacecraft center in Houston,
Texas from February of 1969 through the entire Apollo project and beyond. I
was involved with training the Apollo Astronauts to familiarize them with
the functions of the Space Suit and PLSS.
The PLSS provided 100% pure Oxygen to the astronauts at a pressure of 3.85
PSIA. Each pair of Astronauts that walked on the Moon went through a number
of Space Environmental Simulation Laboratory (SESL) training sessions in a
vacuum chamber to familiarize them with how the controls on the PLSS worked
and what the environment in the space suit was like. There were treadmills
in the chamber for them to walk on so they could put a BTU load on the PLSS.
I know of no reports of out gassing of the Lexan helmet during Project
Apollo vacuum chamber training or missions that caused any astronaut or test
subject to feel ill.
I do not think it is the Lexan out gassing I think your reaction is being
caused by the Locktite as I have experienced the sweet taste when I used it,
however, it did not cause me any problems.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John R. Lebetski
Sent: Monday, 26 April 2010 8:05 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242
We've taken on a big contract at work and we are using birch wood, aluminum,
Wisonart laminate, contact cement, Lexan, laquer paint, and steel in these
racks we are building. I'm not applying the Loctite directly but we get
them over from our other shop same or next day. I have burning in nose and
lungs, lips are swelling, a cayenne pepper sensation and a sweet taste that
won't go away for like 3 days after exposure. My sense of taste and smell
is all in havoc. I know Loctite has that sweet taste and odor as there is
Propylene glycol in there as well as Sacharrin. I can see the chemicals on
the MSDS but don't know what other chemicals are formed and released during
the anerobic reaction of polymerization. Does anyone know???I'm guessing
they are worse than what is listed as contents. The symptoms I am having are
listed on the data sheet as reactions but I'm really sensitive to this stuff
and it isn't really bothering anyone else. I called Loctite and asked about
the low odor 2423 but she didn't say or know if it would be better. I'm
getting in a sample of stick Loctite from McMaster tomorrow to try as there
should be no liquid spillover. I can't put my finger on what is causing this
but the sweet taste is leaning me toward this as the cause. Does anyone
know about Lexan and offgasing? I know shops have problems with using tint
film on it as it offgasses and forms bubbles. Could this be the problem? I
don't think so as it would choke and poison our astronauts. I'll have to do
more testing but I can't get near these things. The laquer paint has never
bothered me before so I've sort of ruled that out. HELP!
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #81879 is a reply to message #81841] |
Sun, 25 April 2010 21:41 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 25 April 2010 15:05 |
... The laquer paint has never bothered me before so I've sort of ruled that out. ...
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While you are most likely correct, but just because some chemical didn't bother you in the past doesn't mean it will not now or in the future.
This is one of the things I learned when I worked as a safety officer in an earlier life. Seems your body can get sensitized during initial exposure(s), then reacts on later exposure(s). This is one of the reasons, when using hair die, they recommend you check for allergies each time you use it.
I know this isn't what you wanted to hear.... But keep in mind, some chemicals (like Latex) are more likely to have this issue than others. I have not idea if Lacquer paint can do this. (Are the solvents in the paint the same as the earlier paint?)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #81882 is a reply to message #81841] |
Sun, 25 April 2010 22:10 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for the info. I too am leaning towards the chemicals in the reaction process of the anerobic Loctite over the Lexan. I forgot to add that earlier in the project, to confuse the issue, we did about 5000 solder joints with the new lead free solder. I only did a few solder joints during the initial proto setup but was in and out of the room with long hours of 3 guys soldering non stop. I had a metal taste I could not get rid of for a week. I went on line and even the Weller site talks about the increased dangers of RoHS compliant solder to the person doing the soldering. The metals by an order of magnitude and particulates upt to 250X worse, mostly due to higher temps and more flux needed. I'm in the procees of getting bids on a fume extraction system for this reason. So------this may have really filled me up with toxins and now the other things just can't be tolerated, even though no production soldering was going on last week, it was a new problem. I'm back in the soup tomorrow (product should be somewhat aired out over the weekend) and will try to keep shop door open. Usually by Sun night I feel cleaned out but this week I could use a couple more days.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #81888 is a reply to message #81882] |
Mon, 26 April 2010 00:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
This may sound like an overreaction but have you considered that whatever is
causing the problem might be doing permanent damage to your body?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John R. Lebetski
Sent: Monday, 26 April 2010 1:10 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242
Thanks for the info. I too am leaning towards the chemicals in the reaction
process of the anerobic Loctite over the Lexan. I forgot to add that
earlier in the project, to confuse the issue, we did about 5000 solder
joints with the new lead free solder. I only did a few solder joints during
the initial proto setup but was in and out of the room with long hours of 3
guys soldering non stop. I had a metal taste I could not get rid of for a
week. I went on line and even the Weller site talks about the increased
dangers of RoHS compliant solder to the person doing the soldering. The
metals by an order of magnitude and particulates upt to 250X worse, mostly
due to higher temps and more flux needed. I'm in the procees of getting
bids on a fume extraction system for this reason. So------this may have
really filled me up with toxins and now the other things just can't be
tolerated, even though no production soldering was going on last week, it
was a new problem. I'm back in the soup tomorrow (product should be somewhat
aired out over the weekend) and will try to keep shop door open. Usually by
Sun night I feel cleaned out but this week I could use a couple more days.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #81897 is a reply to message #81888] |
Mon, 26 April 2010 06:47 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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John,
Sometime back in the 70's we secured a government contract for building
circuit boards for the national defense folks. The prototypes were hand
soldered - using the good old solder - but the production runs were made
using an early wave soldering machine - with no exhaust
system. The production location was in the middle of a large shop and after
a couple of days of molten solder fumes, we shut the machine down until an
air extraction system was installed. After that the complaints dropped off
except for the techs that did touch up solder work. They were located in a
25' x 25' room with two passage doors and one row of windows. No cross
ventilation. After a couple of days of eight hour shifts more irritation
was reported. The quick fix was some 4" muffin fans pulling air through
residential hot air heating ducts to the outside. Then "mini hoods" were
about 4" x 14". Two ducks were located at each solder station. They were
slightly elevated and positioned catty-corner to the work area. We were
soldering circuit boards that were less that 1ft. square.
Of course, the wave solder machine rep guaranteed there would be no need for
touch up or solder joint repair using their machine. I don't think they
were ISO compliant. I don't think they're in business anymore!
You have to get that air out of there - even a large commercial pedestal fan
may help.
Just my two cents.
Good Luck,
Tom Eckert
'73 Glacier
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> John,
>
> This may sound like an overreaction but have you considered that whatever
> is
> causing the problem might be doing permanent damage to your body?
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John R. Lebetski
> Sent: Monday, 26 April 2010 1:10 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242
>
> Thanks for the info. I too am leaning towards the chemicals in the reaction
> process of the anerobic Loctite over the Lexan. I forgot to add that
> earlier in the project, to confuse the issue, we did about 5000 solder
> joints with the new lead free solder. I only did a few solder joints
> during
> the initial proto setup but was in and out of the room with long hours of 3
> guys soldering non stop. I had a metal taste I could not get rid of for a
> week. I went on line and even the Weller site talks about the increased
> dangers of RoHS compliant solder to the person doing the soldering. The
> metals by an order of magnitude and particulates upt to 250X worse, mostly
> due to higher temps and more flux needed. I'm in the procees of getting
> bids on a fume extraction system for this reason. So------this may have
> really filled me up with toxins and now the other things just can't be
> tolerated, even though no production soldering was going on last week, it
> was a new problem. I'm back in the soup tomorrow (product should be
> somewhat
> aired out over the weekend) and will try to keep shop door open. Usually by
> Sun night I feel cleaned out but this week I could use a couple more days.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Chicago, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #81906 is a reply to message #81841] |
Mon, 26 April 2010 08:14 |
mlincoln
Messages: 107
Registered: August 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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John,
It is hard to say what's causing your problem with the multitude of chemicals you're apparently being exposed to. I trained in pulmonary medicine in Utah following internal medicine at Michigan, and was the "black lung" doctor in SE Utah's Public Health Dept. for many years. Each industry has its own issues and specialized knowledge. The pulmonary physicians and other health specialists who work in occupational sensitivity and exposure often have to really sleuth to figure out cases such as yours.
A couple of recommendations: 1) Get out of the environment that is causing your problem immediately. Ask to be reassigned. The intermediate and long term, adverse effects of some of these chemicals, if you are reactive to them, can be very, very bad. 2) If you have any shortness of breath, either at rest or with exercise, or wheezing, or in fact any effect lasting more than a couple of days after removing yourself, you should promptly consult a physician and preferably a specialist such as the occupational health department at Chicago's Northwestern University, at 312/695-1800.
Mike Lincoln (MD)
1978 Center Kitchen Royale
On Apr 25, 2010, at 6:05 PM, John R. Lebetski wrote:
>
>
> We've taken on a big contract at work and we are using birch wood, aluminum, Wisonart laminate, contact cement, Lexan, laquer paint, and steel in these racks we are building. I'm not applying the Loctite directly but we get them over from our other shop same or next day. I have burning in nose and lungs, lips are swelling, a cayenne pepper sensation and a sweet taste that won't go away for like 3 days after exposure. My sense of taste and smell is all in havoc. I know Loctite has that sweet taste and odor as there is Propylene glycol in there as well as Sacharrin. I can see the chemicals on the MSDS but don't know what other chemicals are formed and released during the anerobic reaction of polymerization. Does anyone know???I'm guessing they are worse than what is listed as contents. The symptoms I am having are listed on the data sheet as reactions but I'm really sensitive to this stuff and it isn't really bothering anyone else. I called Loctite and asked about the low
o
> dor 2423 but she didn't say or know if it would be better. I'm getting in a sample of stick Loctite from McMaster tomorrow to try as there should be no liquid spillover. I can't put my finger on what is causing this but the sweet taste is leaning me toward this as the cause. Does anyone know about Lexan and offgasing? I know shops have problems with using tint film on it as it offgasses and forms bubbles. Could this be the problem? I don't think so as it would choke and poison our astronauts. I'll have to do more testing but I can't get near these things. The laquer paint has never bothered me before so I've sort of ruled that out. HELP!
> --
> John Lebetski
> Chicago, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Mike
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| Re: Chemcal sensitivity and Loctite 242 [message #82027 is a reply to message #81841] |
Mon, 26 April 2010 20:25 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Thanks again. I knew you guys would be a great source of info on such a fringe topic as this. Today we had the doors open and it was still affecting me. No soldering, but no metal taste. Just a coating type feeling on tongue and a peppery burning. No sweet taste. I think what we have here is a combo platter of toxins. Started with the soldering. I'm still waiting for an install bid on the fume system and I have the fan found at McMaster. Right now the culpret is the laquer paint curing I believe. I think I'm now so sensitized to this that it's more noticiable. I went and took a half hour IR sauna after work way out in St Charles (they are not that common around here it seems)in attempts to get this out of my system. This was recommended to me by a respected nutrionist. I have 1.5 more days in town and then I go out of town to Detroit on a Ford show. I hope I can stand all the expo carpet etc and that I can open my hotel window or I'm going to be in big trouble. What I can't believe is that no one else is noticing this. Of course I can only go in a Bed Bath and Beyond for about 5 mins and I will claw through the walls to get out. Whatever is treated on new fabrics will send me up the wall. I'm type A- which I'm told is know for this chemical ESP problem and I'm usually very good at getting away from the problem, but I've never had such a work related issue before and it's hard to believe with the doors open how loaded up with this stuff I got today. Just like a tricky GMC issue I won't be satisfied until I really figure this one out. Ive' heared stories where exposure can push you past the tipping point and then you are sensitive to everything.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Chemcal sensitivity and HEAVY METALS [message #85324 is a reply to message #81841] |
Wed, 19 May 2010 20:57 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Update. I had a hair analysis done and I am over the recommended levels in Cadmium, Mercury, Uranium and Sulfur in my body. I called Northwestern at the suggestion of Mike Lincoln. After several attempts I got a woman who promised me she would get back to me and then told me they did not have a specialist that deal with heavy metals exposure, but did find someone at UIC. I have an appointment set up there for next wednesday. Has anyone else had any personal experience with this type of thing in the workplace? The Cadmium could be from the soldering as on the web it states that silver solders get Cadmium exposure and the new "safe" solder is higher in silver. Also the connectors we are soldering could have Cadmium content in the plating on the solder tabs. I need to look into that. Cadmium poisoning causes depression, lack of energy and other problems. For now I found an Herbalist (actually is someone who is a "doctor" in China but has to be called an "herbalist" here who gave me some herbal metal cleanse capsules that are especially for removing these metals. The other option is western medicine chelation which seems it could be as bad for you as the problem in what I have read. Anyone had this done?
Trying to get and stay healthy so I can enjoy life (and the GMC).
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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