Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Inner front wheel bearing seal
| Inner front wheel bearing seal [message #81301] |
Wed, 21 April 2010 09:15  |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Well, I had about 25K miles on the coach since I looked all of the wheel bearings, so decided it was time for a look see. Bearings, seals and shoes on the rear were perfect, So I just cleaned, repacked and put them back together.
The fronts however...a different story. Pulled left front apart and found nothing of significance to report. Took the right side apart and first noticed that the grease was darker in color than the left side. After cleaning, the bearings and races looked quite normal...then my finger caught a sharp edge on the inner bearing roller cage. The edge of the cage indicated that it was rubbing on something, so I looked at the seal. Sure enough, evidence of a slight rub between the seal and the bearing cage.
For those of you that were at the last GMCMI rally in Montgomery, and attended Dave Lenzi's session on front wheel bearings, you may recall that he and others had noticed a change in the way they manufacture that inner seal (the one that seals against the CV joint). The inner portion of the steel portion of the seal, instead of being just straight, in some cases has been manufactured with a slight curl-up lip. This lip is just high enough that, when set properly can make contact with the bearing cage. This contact makes for steel shavings that can get into the inner bearing and cause failure. That is why the grease on my left side bearings looked darker than the right...it has some steel shavings mixed in with it. Fortunately, the contact was quite minor and did not create enough to cause a failure, or even any noticeable damage to the bearings or races.
I talked with Dave some about this. It seems that National is *one* of the only brands making the correct seal for our GMC. It is National Seal #5123. This seal does NOT have the turned up lip that can cause us problems. Things have changed since I did these bearings 6 yrs ago, including the way we install the seal. Had I installed the seal (a Chicago Rawhide seal with the lip) using todays method of referencing off of the knuckle, the seal would have been deep enough that it would have made significant contact with the bearing...perhaps leading to catastrophic failure.
My point, if you are not sure of the seals that you installed last time, maybe you better check them. I have posted pics of the two seals...my old seal with the "lip" and the new seal National #5123 on the GMC photo site. It may be hard to make out. It is hard to see, but the difference can be "felt".
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5446
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal [message #81304 is a reply to message #81301] |
Wed, 21 April 2010 09:28  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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very useful post, thanks very much
too bad this info does not get published ;>)
thanks again
gene
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:
>
>
> Well, I had about 25K miles on the coach since I looked all of the wheel
> bearings, so decided it was time for a look see. Bearings, seals and shoes
> on the rear were perfect, So I just cleaned, repacked and put them back
> together.
>
> The fronts however...a different story. Pulled left front apart and found
> nothing of significance to report. Took the right side apart and first
> noticed that the grease was darker in color than the left side. After
> cleaning, the bearings and races looked quite normal...then my finger caught
> a sharp edge on the inner bearing roller cage. The edge of the cage
> indicated that it was rubbing on something, so I looked at the seal. Sure
> enough, evidence of a slight rub between the seal and the bearing cage.
>
> For those of you that were at the last GMCMI rally in Montgomery, and
> attended Dave Lenzi's session on front wheel bearings, you may recall that
> he and others had noticed a change in the way they manufacture that inner
> seal (the one that seals against the CV joint). The inner portion of the
> steel portion of the seal, instead of being just straight, in some cases has
> been manufactured with a slight curl-up lip. This lip is just high enough
> that, when set properly can make contact with the bearing cage. This
> contact makes for steel shavings that can get into the inner bearing and
> cause failure. That is why the grease on my left side bearings looked darker
> than the right...it has some steel shavings mixed in with it. Fortunately,
> the contact was quite minor and did not create enough to cause a failure,
> or even any noticeable damage to the bearings or races.
>
> I talked with Dave some about this. It seems that National is *one* of the
> only brands making the correct seal for our GMC. It is National Seal #5123.
> This seal does NOT have the turned up lip that can cause us problems.
> Things have changed since I did these bearings 6 yrs ago, including the way
> we install the seal. Had I installed the seal (a Chicago Rawhide seal with
> the lip) using todays method of referencing off of the knuckle, the seal
> would have been deep enough that it would have made significant contact with
> the bearing...perhaps leading to catastrophic failure.
>
> My point, if you are not sure of the seals that you installed last time,
> maybe you better check them. I have posted pics of the two seals...my old
> seal with the "lip" and the new seal National #5123 on the GMC photo site.
> It may be hard to make out. It is hard to see, but the difference can be
> "felt".
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5446
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal [message #81309 is a reply to message #81301] |
Wed, 21 April 2010 09:46 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
I looked at the photos and the "shiny" part of the lip looks it is turned
"in."
Am I looking at the right thing?
If you have a photo editing program on your PC could you edit the National
Seal photo to show where the lip is.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Thursday, 22 April 2010 12:15 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal
Well, I had about 25K miles on the coach since I looked all of the wheel
bearings, so decided it was time for a look see. Bearings, seals and shoes
on the rear were perfect, So I just cleaned, repacked and put them back
together.
The fronts however...a different story. Pulled left front apart and found
nothing of significance to report. Took the right side apart and first
noticed that the grease was darker in color than the left side. After
cleaning, the bearings and races looked quite normal...then my finger caught
a sharp edge on the inner bearing roller cage. The edge of the cage
indicated that it was rubbing on something, so I looked at the seal. Sure
enough, evidence of a slight rub between the seal and the bearing cage.
For those of you that were at the last GMCMI rally in Montgomery, and
attended Dave Lenzi's session on front wheel bearings, you may recall that
he and others had noticed a change in the way they manufacture that inner
seal (the one that seals against the CV joint). The inner portion of the
steel portion of the seal, instead of being just straight, in some cases has
been manufactured with a slight curl-up lip. This lip is just high enough
that, when set properly can make contact with the bearing cage. This
contact makes for steel shavings that can get into the inner bearing and
cause failure. That is why the grease on my left side bearings looked darker
than the right...it has some steel shavings mixed in with it. Fortunately,
the contact was quite minor and did not create enough to cause a failure,
or even any noticeable damage to the bearings or races.
I talked with Dave some about this. It seems that National is *one* of the
only brands making the correct seal for our GMC. It is National Seal #5123.
This seal does NOT have the turned up lip that can cause us problems.
Things have changed since I did these bearings 6 yrs ago, including the way
we install the seal. Had I installed the seal (a Chicago Rawhide seal with
the lip) using todays method of referencing off of the knuckle, the seal
would have been deep enough that it would have made significant contact with
the bearing...perhaps leading to catastrophic failure.
My point, if you are not sure of the seals that you installed last time,
maybe you better check them. I have posted pics of the two seals...my old
seal with the "lip" and the new seal National #5123 on the GMC photo site.
It may be hard to make out. It is hard to see, but the difference can be
"felt".
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5446
--
Larry :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal [message #81433 is a reply to message #81429] |
Thu, 22 April 2010 08:57 |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Where are the sketches?
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <weidnerl@wwt.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal
>
>
> Surbo wrote on Wed, 21 April 2010 21:24
>> Larry;
>>
>> Do you have the inner seal tool to properly install the inner seal? This
>> is the seal driver Dave and I designed to set the proper depth of the
>> inner seal. If you do not have the seal tool, get back to me and I will
>> send it to you, OK
>>
>> Bob Drewes in SESD
>
> Hey Bob,
> I personally do not have the tool, but Bob Miller does and he is mailing
> it to me. Thanks for the offer though. Can't wait for the GMCGMC rally.
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal [message #81475 is a reply to message #81438] |
Thu, 22 April 2010 13:54 |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Thanks for the reply. I already have a seal setting tool.
Larry Weidner had said he was
going to post a sketch of a cross section of the seal
that is giving problems. I contacted Dave Lenzi and he
sent me pictures which I have forwarded to Eugene
Fisher in hopes of getting them up on the net where
every one can see them. The last group Dave ordered
were all bad.
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal
> Charles,
>
> I'll save Gene some time:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25496
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Charles
> Sent: Thursday, 22 April 2010 11:57 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal
>
>
> Larry,
> Where are the sketches?
> Charles
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal [message #81724 is a reply to message #81721] |
Fri, 23 April 2010 21:49 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Some really smart guy said one picture is worth a thousand words (or
drawings)!
Thanks!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Saturday, 24 April 2010 12:43 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal
I said that I would post drawings of the seal to make it clearer what the
lip looks like that we need to avoid on the inner front wheel bearing seal.
Instead, I cut a seal in half with a Dremel, and posted pics of the lip,
See this URL:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=33346&title=img-2850&c
at=5446
HTH someone.
--
Larry :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal [message #81729 is a reply to message #81721] |
Fri, 23 April 2010 22:40 |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
You did good. Pictures are very clear. Probably better than a sketch.
Especially the one with he two different sections in your hand. Can
we use it on Eugene's site? I think he is working with some pictures
I sent him that I got from Dave Lenzi.
Charles
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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inner front wheel bearing seal [message #81749 is a reply to message #81729] |
Sat, 24 April 2010 09:28 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Charles wrote on Fri, 23 April 2010 22:40 |
Larry,
You did good. Pictures are very clear. Probably better than a sketch.
Especially the one with he two different sections in your hand. Can
we use it on Eugene's site? I think he is working with some pictures
I sent him that I got from Dave Lenzi.
Charles
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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Of coarse it's OK. If it helps someone....one less time someone may need the "Black List". Our goal is to make the Black List obsolete and useless....YA...RIGHT!!
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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