Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Front suspension too low
| [GMCnet] Front suspension too low [message #80751] |
Fri, 16 April 2010 12:10  |
Denis Leconte
Messages: 22
Registered: July 2007
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My 1977 26" spent about a year without engine/transmission, and then 2 weeks with the wheels hanging in the air while I was reinstalling the propulsion group (I was doing everything by myself and therefore took my time for safety's sake).
When I lowered it to the ground, I discovered that in now has something like 1.5 to 2 inches of clearance, with the engine in. The front end wasn't particularly high when the engine was out, incidentally.
I tried adjusting the torsion bars, and that didn't do enough - even with considerable adjusting I am still too low by about 3 inches and I am running out of adjustment bolt (Yes, I am doing it by the book, with a gear puller to assist and prevent stripping the adjustment bolt).
Do the shocks contribute a lot to keeping the suspension at the proper height? My current thinking is that these two weeks with the wheels hanging down destroyed the shock absorbers... Maybe that's it.
Am I looking in the wrong direction? Any advice/opinion would be much appreciated!
--
Denis Leconte - denis_leconte@yahoo.com
1977 Eleganza II - 455 engine - Los Angeles, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front suspension too low [message #80752 is a reply to message #80751] |
Fri, 16 April 2010 12:29  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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I can't imagine that the shocks add anything to the front suspension other than damping. I would look to see if the ends of the torsion bars (or the adjustment fittings) are worn or stripped. I imagine that torsion bars can get old and worn, but I wouldn't imagine that both sides would be affected at the same time.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front suspension too low [message #80756 is a reply to message #80753] |
Fri, 16 April 2010 12:59 |
scott cowden
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
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Denis, I can't imagine what happened with yours. I had my drive train out for maybe 2 months while it was being rebuilt and everything went back o/k. I can tell you that the shocks have nothing to do with the height. They are there to dampen any bouncing you may have. I would probably be looking at the torsion bar sockets in the "A" frames as maybe the culprit. Also if you are at the end of travel on the adjustment bolts, they do make different degree porkchops which would correct that. You may want to check with Jim K. on them. Hope this helps, Jim
Denis;
Is is possible that during this process, the bars may have been removed and replaced on the wrong sides? I had this happen to my coach when the front subframe was replaced.
have a look at the end of the bars, the direction of rotation is marked on them. they are designed to be 'twisted,' in opposite directions.
If you do take the bars out to check, remember to ram them 'home' all the way back through the 'pork chops' and to the back of the cross member. It is possible to to have the bars too far forward into the lower suspension arm which will cause improper interface with the pork chop. Don't ask me how I know! :o)
Scott '74 Glacier Orillia, ON, Canada
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front suspension too low [message #80761 is a reply to message #80756] |
Fri, 16 April 2010 13:37 |
Denis Leconte
Messages: 22
Registered: July 2007
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Thanks everyone!
I am going to look at the A-frame sockets - that is the one logical source for my problems, I think. The torsion bars were not removed, but I suppose it is possible that they may have been disturbed when I had the coach front up in the air.
I was also quite surprised to have this happen - when I did my final "jack down", I thought it was going to stop at normal ride height and looked on, to my dismay, as the thing lowered itself until the front crossmember sat down hard on the jack saddle (which is at a lofty 3" height) - to the point where I could not move the handle! I had to go and lift it from the side to unwedge my jack.
Thanks everyone!
> Denis, I can't imagine what happened with yours. I had my
> drive train out for maybe 2 months while it was being
> rebuilt and everything went back o/k. I can tell you that
> the shocks have nothing to do with the height. They are
> there to dampen any bouncing you may have. I would probably
> be looking at the torsion bar sockets in the "A" frames as
> maybe the culprit. Also if you are at the end of travel on
> the adjustment bolts, they do make different degree
> porkchops which would correct that. You may want to check
> with Jim K. on them. Hope this helps, Jim
[...]
> have a look at the end of the bars, the direction of
> rotation is marked on them. they are designed to be
> 'twisted,' in opposite directions.
> If you do take the bars out to check, remember to ram them
> 'home' all the way back through the 'pork chops' and to the
> back of the cross member. It is possible to to have
> the bars too far forward into the lower suspension arm which
> will cause improper interface with the pork chop.
> Don't ask me how I know! :o)
--
Denis Leconte - denis_leconte@yahoo.com
1977 Eleganza II - 455 engine - Los Angeles, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front suspension too low [message #80763 is a reply to message #80751] |
Fri, 16 April 2010 14:21 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Dennis,
I would suspect the hex in the lower control arm has failed. Just
went thru this with a 78 royal coach of a friend. We tried to adjust
but could not get it to the proper height. The hex on both sides had
failed! At a loss to explain why but they both were wallowed out.
The torsion bars were just fine I suspect that yours are OK also.
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
TZE Zone Restorations
77 Eleganza Custom (For Sale)
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> My 1977 26" spent about a year without engine/transmission, and then
> 2 weeks with the wheels hanging in the air while I was reinstalling
> the propulsion group (I was doing everything by myself and therefore
> took my time for safety's sake).
>
> When I lowered it to the ground, I discovered that in now has
> something like 1.5 to 2 inches of clearance, with the engine in. The
> front end wasn't particularly high when the engine was out,
> incidentally.
>
> I tried adjusting the torsion bars, and that didn't do enough - even
> with considerable adjusting I am still too low by about 3 inches and
> I am running out of adjustment bolt (Yes, I am doing it by the book,
> with a gear puller to assist and prevent stripping the adjustment
> bolt).
>
> Do the shocks contribute a lot to keeping the suspension at the
> proper height? My current thinking is that these two weeks with the
> wheels hanging down destroyed the shock absorbers... Maybe that's it.
>
> Am I looking in the wrong direction? Any advice/opinion would be
> much appreciated!
>
> --
> Denis Leconte - denis_leconte@yahoo.com
> 1977 Eleganza II - 455 engine - Los Angeles, CA
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front suspension too low [message #80775 is a reply to message #80763] |
Fri, 16 April 2010 17:41 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
Steve Ferguson has noted this and reinforces the hex on the inside when he
beefs up the lower control arms.
If you look at the hex on the side that is visible you will see 1" wide band
of steel welded to the "outside" surface. If you look up under the flat
plate on the bottom you will see that there is nothing on the "inside"
surface of the hex.
Steve welds a 1" wide strip to that surface also. Below is a series of
photos to show how he does it.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=27263
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=27264
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=27265
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=27267
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=27268
Take a few minutes and go through these photos and you'll see why when he
gets done with them they're bullet proof!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John Wright
Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2010 5:21 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Front suspension too low
Dennis,
I would suspect the hex in the lower control arm has failed. Just
went thru this with a 78 royal coach of a friend. We tried to adjust
but could not get it to the proper height. The hex on both sides had
failed! At a loss to explain why but they both were wallowed out.
The torsion bars were just fine I suspect that yours are OK also.
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
TZE Zone Restorations
77 Eleganza Custom (For Sale)
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> My 1977 26" spent about a year without engine/transmission, and then
> 2 weeks with the wheels hanging in the air while I was reinstalling
> the propulsion group (I was doing everything by myself and therefore
> took my time for safety's sake).
>
> When I lowered it to the ground, I discovered that in now has
> something like 1.5 to 2 inches of clearance, with the engine in. The
> front end wasn't particularly high when the engine was out,
> incidentally.
>
> I tried adjusting the torsion bars, and that didn't do enough - even
> with considerable adjusting I am still too low by about 3 inches and
> I am running out of adjustment bolt (Yes, I am doing it by the book,
> with a gear puller to assist and prevent stripping the adjustment
> bolt).
>
> Do the shocks contribute a lot to keeping the suspension at the
> proper height? My current thinking is that these two weeks with the
> wheels hanging down destroyed the shock absorbers... Maybe that's it.
>
> Am I looking in the wrong direction? Any advice/opinion would be
> much appreciated!
>
> --
> Denis Leconte - denis_leconte@yahoo.com
> 1977 Eleganza II - 455 engine - Los Angeles, CA
_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front suspension too low [message #80779 is a reply to message #80763] |
Fri, 16 April 2010 18:48 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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John,
That is the second time this week I have heard of a Royal having that
problem. Very odd to have it happen to both sides.
If the socket is bellowed, there is a procedure I have used with very
limited success that works. They have to come off though, this can't
be done on the coach.
If the ball joints are rivited in they, and the bushings, are
probably original and long past due. Sometimes the rubber compresses
up to 3/8 offset inside the sleeve too.
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:21 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
> Dennis,
> I would suspect the hex in the lower control arm has failed. Just
> went thru this with a 78 royal coach of a friend. We tried to adjust
> but could not get it to the proper height. The hex on both sides had
> failed! At a loss to explain why but they both were wallowed out.
> The torsion bars were just fine I suspect that yours are OK also.
>
> J.R. Wright
> GMC GreatLaker
> TZE Zone Restorations
> 77 Eleganza Custom (For Sale)
> 1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
>
>
>> My 1977 26" spent about a year without engine/transmission, and then
>> 2 weeks with the wheels hanging in the air while I was reinstalling
>> the propulsion group (I was doing everything by myself and therefore
>> took my time for safety's sake).
>>
>> When I lowered it to the ground, I discovered that in now has
>> something like 1.5 to 2 inches of clearance, with the engine in. The
>> front end wasn't particularly high when the engine was out,
>> incidentally.
>>
>> I tried adjusting the torsion bars, and that didn't do enough - even
>> with considerable adjusting I am still too low by about 3 inches and
>> I am running out of adjustment bolt (Yes, I am doing it by the book,
>> with a gear puller to assist and prevent stripping the adjustment
>> bolt).
>>
>> Do the shocks contribute a lot to keeping the suspension at the
>> proper height? My current thinking is that these two weeks with the
>> wheels hanging down destroyed the shock absorbers... Maybe that's it.
>>
>> Am I looking in the wrong direction? Any advice/opinion would be
>> much appreciated!
>>
>> --
>> Denis Leconte - denis_leconte@yahoo.com
>> 1977 Eleganza II - 455 engine - Los Angeles, CA
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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