Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Dash AC Rebuild
| Dash AC Rebuild [message #80067] |
Sat, 10 April 2010 21:44  |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Hi all,
I just started rebuilding the dash air of our 76 PB. I will be replacing the expansion valve, press switch, receiver-dryer, AC lines and compressor. It will all be converted to Duracool but first I will have it serviced with R134 basically because I want my AC guy to do the leak checks and service it with the correct amount of oil.
Anyway, my question is about the R12 oil that might still be in the evaporator and condenser. I understand the oil for R12 is mineral based and R134 is synthetic and the two are not compatible. This being the case is it necessary to flush the evaporator and condenser in order to clean out the R12 oil? If yes what procedure and solvent should be used?
Any suggestions would be most welcome!
Thanks,
Jon
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild [message #80076 is a reply to message #80067] |
Sat, 10 April 2010 23:00  |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jon,
You're going to hear more on this but after sorting through all the
issues with the early 76 coach AC, I installed Duracool. AKA Hc12a.
It still blows ice cubes and a side benefit is that it is compatable
with any oil and equates to about 100 psi head pressure on the
compressor. Also only takes about two five dollar cans to charge the
system. Good stuff, works fantastic.
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Jon Payne <embrep@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I just started rebuilding the dash air of our 76 PB. I will be replacing the expansion valve, press switch, receiver-dryer, AC lines and compressor. It will all be converted to Duracool but first I will have it serviced with R134 basically because I want my AC guy to do the leak checks and service it with the correct amount of oil.
>
> Anyway, my question is about the R12 oil that might still be in the evaporator and condenser. I understand the oil for R12 is mineral based and R134 is synthetic and the two are not compatible. This being the case is it necessary to flush the evaporator and condenser in order to clean out the R12 oil? If yes what procedure and solvent should be used?
>
> Any suggestions would be most welcome!
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
> --
> Jon Payne/
> 76 Palm Beach/
> Westfield,IN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: Dash AC Rebuild [message #80124 is a reply to message #80067] |
Sun, 11 April 2010 10:01 |
Rusty
Messages: 197
Registered: October 2005
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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You should be flushing both the condenser and evaporator by default. Its not that difficult, you need an air compressor, Napa can provide you the flush (cant remember chemical name) and a kit - flush is not cheap. I have heard people use turpentine, not recommended since although it works well, remnants can contaminate, so if you use it make sure you still save the last flush or two for the appropriate chemical. When I did mine I went thru three quarts of flush, about 40 bucks a quart. If i had to do it again I would use the turp and one can of flush.
Believe me, you do not want to install new compressor, lines, dryer and x-valve without flushing the condenser and evap.
Oh and - if you are expecting to be able to return a re-manned compressor - they are bad 1 out of 5 times - you will need the receipts to show you replaced and flushed everything. Napa had gotten burned on blown compressors and will no longer refund a compressor if you can't prove all new stuff. Personally I would just buy a new Delco compressor, about 400 bucks but worth it in my opinion. Re-mans just don't work that well if they work at all.
Rusty
75 Glenbrook
Philadelphia Pa
[Updated on: Sun, 11 April 2010 10:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Dash AC Rebuild [message #80144 is a reply to message #80136] |
Sun, 11 April 2010 11:18 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| Jon Payne wrote on Sun, 11 April 2010 10:51 |
Thanks Rusty! Very helpful advice.
PS I assume when ordering a new compressor I should ask for one that fits a 76 Tornado? I thing all A6 compressors are the same?
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Not sure about all others but a 75 Corvette A6 has reduced displacement from a regular pass car A6.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Dash AC Rebuild [message #80296 is a reply to message #80067] |
Mon, 12 April 2010 12:05 |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Rusty and everyone for you input
Question regarding the flushing of the evaporator & condenser. I just bought the flush chemical from NAPA today and my idea was to use my siphon spayer (attached to air compressor) to flush out the units. Only concern I have with using this siphon sprayer is the small amount of fluid is siphons. Might not be enough to be effective. I guess I can try and see how well it works.
Any other suggestions?
Jon
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild [message #80323 is a reply to message #80303] |
Mon, 12 April 2010 13:34 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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That is the way I would do it Emery but if you give it a small shot of R12,R22,R 134,R500 (vapor only)along with the nitrogen or co2 you will be able to leak check it with a leak detector rather then just soap bubbles. When you pull a vacuum after you are done it will all be removed from the system.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild [message #80330 is a reply to message #80323] |
Mon, 12 April 2010 14:49 |
Fin Beven
Messages: 101
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Going to Duracool is a great up-grade, but from what I've learned, it only gets you half-way there.
For the rest, see photos at: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387>
For what it's worth, my coach is a '76 Edgemont, so this may not apply to other AC set-ups.
At the suggestion of several on the list, and with Steve Ferguson's encouragement, I changed the intake air for both my heater and A/C from primarily outside air to primarily re-circulating air.
There are a couple of steps involved with this.
1. Remove the sheet-metal cover to the AC/Heater box. In the upper-left corner of the AC/Heater box you see will what I would call the "blower-box", which is powered by "squirrel-cage" blower. The trick here is to re-make the system so that lots of cockpit air can be used, re-circulated, heated or cooled, and blown back into the cockpit.
Each person may have their favorite way to open up the back side of the blower-box into the cockpit, but but from the photos you can see how I did it with a simple hole-saw, Saws-all, and a Dremmel tool. I cut several 1 1/2" holes with the bi-metal hole-saw, then "connected-the-dots" with metal blade in the Saws-all. I
In the upper-left corner of our cover plate was an air intake port, roughly 4" x 6". I had a local welding shop cover this port with a patch. This will not eliminate all outside air from being used, but will eliminate most of it.
2. what I would call the "blower-box", which is powered by "squirrel-cage" blower.
----- Original Message -----
From: roy keen<mailto:roynpaula@charter.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org<mailto:gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild
That is the way I would do it Emery but if you give it a small shot of R12,R22,R 134,R500 (vapor only)along with the nitrogen or co2 you will be able to leak check it with a leak detector rather then just soap bubbles. When you pull a vacuum after you are done it will all be removed from the system.
Roy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild [message #80331 is a reply to message #80330] |
Mon, 12 April 2010 14:52 |
Fin Beven
Messages: 101
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Please ignore prior message. I hit "send" before finishing. More later.
Fin .
----- Original Message -----
From: Fin Beven<mailto:FinBeven@MSN.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org<mailto:gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 12:49 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild
Going to Duracool is a great up-grade, but from what I've learned, it only gets you half-way there.
For the rest, see photos at: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387>>
For what it's worth, my coach is a '76 Edgemont, so this may not apply to other AC set-ups.
At the suggestion of several on the list, and with Steve Ferguson's encouragement, I changed the intake air for both my heater and A/C from primarily outside air to primarily re-circulating air.
There are a couple of steps involved with this.
1. Remove the sheet-metal cover to the AC/Heater box. In the upper-left corner of the AC/Heater box you see will what I would call the "blower-box", which is powered by "squirrel-cage" blower. The trick here is to re-make the system so that lots of cockpit air can be used, re-circulated, heated or cooled, and blown back into the cockpit.
Each person may have their favorite way to open up the back side of the blower-box into the cockpit, but but from the photos you can see how I did it with a simple hole-saw, Saws-all, and a Dremmel tool. I cut several 1 1/2" holes with the bi-metal hole-saw, then "connected-the-dots" with metal blade in the Saws-all. I
In the upper-left corner of our cover plate was an air intake port, roughly 4" x 6". I had a local welding shop cover this port with a patch. This will not eliminate all outside air from being used, but will eliminate most of it.
2. what I would call the "blower-box", which is powered by "squirrel-cage" blower.
----- Original Message -----
From: roy keen<mailto:roynpaula@charter.net<mailto:roynpaula@charter.net>>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org<mailto:gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org<mailto:gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org%3Cmailto:gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild
That is the way I would do it Emery but if you give it a small shot of R12,R22,R 134,R500 (vapor only)along with the nitrogen or co2 you will be able to leak check it with a leak detector rather then just soap bubbles. When you pull a vacuum after you are done it will all be removed from the system.
Roy
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| [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild - Part 2 [message #80336 is a reply to message #80331] |
Mon, 12 April 2010 15:37 |
Fin Beven
Messages: 101
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Going to Duracool is a great up-grade, but from what I've learned, it only gets you half-way there.
For the rest, see photos at: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387>
also see Ken Henderson's pictures here: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4637<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4637>
For what it's worth, my coach is a '76 Edgemont, so this may not apply to other AC set-ups. Any corrections on this are welcome.
At the suggestion of several on the list, and with Ken Henderson's and Steve Ferguson's advice and encouragement, I changed the intake air for both my heater and A/C from primarily outside air to primarily re-circulating air. This will just show how it went for me.
There are a couple of steps involved with this.
1. Remove the sheet-metal cover to the AC/Heater box. In the upper-left corner of the AC/Heater box you see will what I would call the "blower-box", which is powered by "squirrel-cage" blower. The trick here is to re-make the system so that lots of cockpit air can be used, re-circulated, heated or cooled, and blown back into the cockpit.
Each person may have their favorite way to open up the back side of the blower-box into the cockpit, but but from the photos you can see how I did it with a simple hole-saw, a Saws-all with a metal-cutting blade, and a Dremel tool. I cut several 1 1/2" holes (nice "daisy" pattern) with the bi-metal hole-saw, then "connected-the-dots" with metal blade in the Saws-all. I used the Dremel tool to smooth-off any remaining sharp edges.
3. Inside of the blower-box , on the lower-right side looking in, is a lever that controls what I will call the Blast Door. This lever should be controlled by the vacuum-actuator located in the blower box. The Blast Door is located in the AC/Heater Box, above the AC coils and below the Heater coil. If the Blast Door is closed, heat and AC can only get into the cockpit through a convoluted path up through the dash. If the Blast Door is open, lots of heating or cooling air can easily be blown into the cockpit. Whatever controlling connection that should have been between the vacuum-actuator and the lever that controls the blast door were missing from mine. The Blast Door was simply in the closed position, held there by gravity, and significantly hampering any good air-flow into the cockpit. Using wire (I had some monel wire, but that's not important), I wired the Blast Door in the full-open position.
(Do not confuse the "Blast Door" that opens directly into the cockpit (from the back side of the AC/Heater box) with the door that separates the heating area of the AC/Heater Box from the cooling area. This door should be shut whenever you are not using the heater, and open when you are. It is operated by the slide lever at the bottom of the heater control panel when you shift it from "Cold" to "Hot").
To re-cap, my Blast Door is now wired in the full-open position, and there is now a big air-access port to draw lots of Cockpit air into the system, cool it or heat it, then blow it back into the cockpit.
4. In the upper-left corner of my cover plate was the rectangular out-side air intake port, roughly 4" x 6". I had a local welding shop cover this port with a patch. This will not eliminate all outside air from being used, but will eliminate most of it.
My system now blows very cold (Duracool) air with lots of volume. Huge Improvement.
One other thing. The "Squirrel Cage". It seems that, at least in mine, that squirrel cage runs any time the ignition is "on". This can cause an annoying draft of cold air, even with the AC off. The solution is simple, and I'm sure I heard this from someone on the list: put a switch in-line in the negative ground for the squirrel cage. Seems to work just fine.
Again, any corrections or additions to this are welcome.
Fin Beven
Pasadena, CA
1976 Ex-Edgemont.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild - Part 2 [message #80337 is a reply to message #80336] |
Mon, 12 April 2010 15:43 |
Fin Beven
Messages: 101
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Going to Duracool is a great up-grade, but from what I've learned, it only gets you half-way there.
For the rest, see photos at: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387>
or: http://tinyurl.com/y5vj6ls<http://tinyurl.com/y5vj6ls>
also see Ken Henderson's pictures here: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4637<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4637>
or: http://tinyurl.com/y59odha<http://tinyurl.com/y59odha>
For what it's worth, my coach is a '76 Edgemont, so this may not apply to other AC set-ups. Any corrections on this are welcome.
At the suggestion of several on the list, and with Ken Henderson's and Steve Ferguson's advice and encouragement, I changed the intake air for both my heater and A/C from primarily outside air to primarily re-circulating air. This will just show how it went for me.
There are a couple of steps involved with this.
1. Remove the sheet-metal cover to the AC/Heater box. In the upper-left corner of the AC/Heater box you see will what I would call the "blower-box", which is powered by "squirrel-cage" blower. The trick here is to re-make the system so that lots of cockpit air can be used, re-circulated, heated or cooled, and blown back into the cockpit.
Each person may have their favorite way to open up the back side of the blower-box into the cockpit, but but from the photos you can see how I did it with a simple hole-saw, a Saws-all with a metal-cutting blade, and a Dremel tool. I cut several 1 1/2" holes (nice "daisy" pattern) with the bi-metal hole-saw, then "connected-the-dots" with metal blade in the Saws-all. I used the Dremel tool to smooth-off any remaining sharp edges.
3. Inside of the blower-box , on the lower-right side looking in, is a lever that controls what I will call the Blast Door. This lever should be controlled by the vacuum-actuator located in the blower box. The Blast Door is located in the AC/Heater Box, above the AC coils and below the Heater coil. If the Blast Door is closed, heat and AC can only get into the cockpit through a convoluted path up through the dash. If the Blast Door is open, lots of heating or cooling air can easily be blown into the cockpit. Whatever controlling connection that should have been between the vacuum-actuator and the lever that controls the blast door were missing from mine. The Blast Door was simply in the closed position, held there by gravity, and significantly hampering any good air-flow into the cockpit. Using wire (I had some monel wire, but that's not important), I wired the Blast Door in the full-open position.
(Do not confuse the "Blast Door" that opens directly into the cockpit (from the back side of the AC/Heater box) with the door that separates the heating area of the AC/Heater Box from the cooling area. This door should be shut whenever you are not using the heater, and open when you are. It is operated by the slide lever at the bottom of the heater control panel when you shift it from "Cold" to "Hot").
To re-cap, my Blast Door is now wired in the full-open position, and there is now a big air-access port to draw lots of Cockpit air into the system, cool it or heat it, then blow it back into the cockpit.
4. In the upper-left corner of my cover plate was the rectangular out-side air intake port, roughly 4" x 6". I had a local welding shop cover this port with a patch. This will not eliminate all outside air from being used, but will eliminate most of it.
My system now blows very cold (Duracool) air with lots of volume. Huge Improvement.
One other thing. The "Squirrel Cage". It seems that, at least in mine, that squirrel cage runs any time the ignition is "on". This can cause an annoying draft of cold air, even with the AC off. The solution is simple, and I'm sure I heard this from someone on the list: put a switch in-line in the negative ground for the squirrel cage. Seems to work just fine.
Again, any corrections or additions to this are welcome.
Fin Beven
Pasadena, CA
1976 Ex-Edgemont.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild - Part 2 [message #80338 is a reply to message #80336] |
Mon, 12 April 2010 16:00 |
bill schurman
Messages: 97
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I cannot open the photos
Bill Schurman
1978 Palm Beach TZE168V100258
Steamboat Springs, CO
at the base of "Rabbit Ears Pass"
With a 7% grade
--- FinBeven@MSN.com wrote:
From: "Fin Beven" <FinBeven@MSN.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dash AC Rebuild - Part 2
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:43:30 -0700
Going to Duracool is a great up-grade, but from what I've learned, it only gets you half-way there.
For the rest, see photos at: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5387>
or: http://tinyurl.com/y5vj6ls<http://tinyurl.com/y5vj6ls>
also see Ken Henderson's pictures here: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4637<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4637>
or: http://tinyurl.com/y59odha<http://tinyurl.com/y59odha>
For what it's worth, my coach is a '76 Edgemont, so this may not apply to other AC set-ups. Any corrections on this are welcome.
At the suggestion of several on the list, and with Ken Henderson's and Steve Ferguson's advice and encouragement, I changed the intake air for both my heater and A/C from primarily outside air to primarily re-circulating air. This will just show how it went for me.
There are a couple of steps involved with this.
1. Remove the sheet-metal cover to the AC/Heater box. In the upper-left corner of the AC/Heater box you see will what I would call the "blower-box", which is powered by "squirrel-cage" blower. The trick here is to re-make the system so that lots of cockpit air can be used, re-circulated, heated or cooled, and blown back into the cockpit.
Each person may have their favorite way to open up the back side of the blower-box into the cockpit, but but from the photos you can see how I did it with a simple hole-saw, a Saws-all with a metal-cutting blade, and a Dremel tool. I cut several 1 1/2" holes (nice "daisy" pattern) with the bi-metal hole-saw, then "connected-the-dots" with metal blade in the Saws-all. I used the Dremel tool to smooth-off any remaining sharp edges.
3. Inside of the blower-box , on the lower-right side looking in, is a lever that controls what I will call the Blast Door. This lever should be controlled by the vacuum-actuator located in the blower box. The Blast Door is located in the AC/Heater Box, above the AC coils and below the Heater coil. If the Blast Door is closed, heat and AC can only get into the cockpit through a convoluted path up through the dash. If the Blast Door is open, lots of heating or cooling air can easily be blown into the cockpit. Whatever controlling connection that should have been between the vacuum-actuator and the lever that controls the blast door were missing from mine. The Blast Door was simply in the closed position, held there by gravity, and significantly hampering any good air-flow into the cockpit. Using wire (I had some monel wire, but that's not important), I wired the Blast Door in the full-open position.
(Do not confuse the "Blast Door" that opens directly into the cockpit (from the back side of the AC/Heater box) with the door that separates the heating area of the AC/Heater Box from the cooling area. This door should be shut whenever you are not using the heater, and open when you are. It is operated by the slide lever at the bottom of the heater control panel when you shift it from "Cold" to "Hot").
To re-cap, my Blast Door is now wired in the full-open position, and there is now a big air-access port to draw lots of Cockpit air into the system, cool it or heat it, then blow it back into the cockpit.
4. In the upper-left corner of my cover plate was the rectangular out-side air intake port, roughly 4" x 6". I had a local welding shop cover this port with a patch. This will not eliminate all outside air from being used, but will eliminate most of it.
My system now blows very cold (Duracool) air with lots of volume. Huge Improvement.
One other thing. The "Squirrel Cage". It seems that, at least in mine, that squirrel cage runs any time the ignition is "on". This can cause an annoying draft of cold air, even with the AC off. The solution is simple, and I'm sure I heard this from someone on the list: put a switch in-line in the negative ground for the squirrel cage. Seems to work just fine.
Again, any corrections or additions to this are welcome.
Fin Beven
Pasadena, CA
1976 Ex-Edgemont.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Window Modification [message #80339 is a reply to message #80333] |
Mon, 12 April 2010 15:59 |
Vince Kirkhuff
Messages: 12
Registered: May 2009
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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...but it can be done... here is a video link that was posted here some time ago of a working lift gate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTQpEfT3HOk
--- On Mon, 4/12/10, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Rear Window Modification
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 1:31 PM
> Not as simple as it looks.
> You'll need to beef up the area by the glass on both sides
> extra beefy
> and even the lower.
> The whole paned is flimsy
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Kelly & Lisa
> McKinley
> <mckinfam@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> > Hey Listers.
> >
> > While searching for a rig I keep noticing how the seam
> in the rear panel of these RV's look like they would allow
> for a swing up door. The advantages of loading large items
> (such as a kayak) as well as escaping the vehicle in an
> emergency would be of benefit. I was wondering if anyone
> over the years had taken on a project to make a rear flip up
> window? If so, might there be a write up on it somewhere?
> >
> >
> > Kelly McKinley
> > GMC Searching
> > Arroyo Grande, CA
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Vince Kirkhuff
1977 Eleganza II
San Luis Obispo, CA
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