Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] hub bolt torque
| Re: [GMCnet] hub bolt torque [message #76333] |
Thu, 11 March 2010 11:20  |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jay,
Yes, in some applications (Milspec comes to mind) calibration is
necessary. I think for this application you will be OK with a used
one. I have several, including a mechanical one and I test them
occasionally against each other. They are always within 5-10 lb ft of
torque. That's good enough for me. You want the one that goes to 250
ft lbs. It will have more uses on the GMC than one limited to 100 ft
lbs.
I love pawn shops. Better than Ebay if you know what you're looking for.
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> OK, that's what I was thinking too. And you've answered the next question, but please confirm, regarding which model/size to get. You're saying I need one that can go to 250 ft-lb? Northern Tool has a 1/2" for $40 but it only goes to 150 ft-lb. Harbor Freight has a 1/2" for $100 that goes to 250. Never thought about trying pawn shops, but I'll do that. On used torque wrenches, can they get out of calibration?
> Thanks,
>
> J "becoming a quasi auto mechanic at least in my tool collection" Rabe
> 76 Palm Beach
> Portland, OR
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:34:12 -0700
>> From: botiemad11@gmail.com
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] hub bolt torque
>>
>> Jay,
>> I doubt that you'll be able to feel 250 ft lbs of torque. Best buy
>> the wrench and get it over with. There is more than one pair of
>> fasteners on the GMC that will require you to use that wrench. You
>> can save some money by first checking pawn shops. Excellent men's
>> malls.
>>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] hub bolt torque [message #76381 is a reply to message #76333] |
Thu, 11 March 2010 22:04  |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I have an electronic calibrator for torque wrenches which I carry to rallies
so folks can check their wrenches. I don't think we've yet seen one as much
as 5% in error.
I'll have it at Montgomery if I don't forget to pick it up from the engine
shop tomorrow.
Oh yeah, No, I didn't get the Cad running today. Lots of little unexpected
complications. Maybe tomorrow. Hopefully only pre-oiling, coolant, 4 wires
to stretch, and distributor installation & timing left to be done.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>wrote:
> Jay,
> Yes, in some applications (Milspec comes to mind) calibration is
> necessary. I think for this application you will be OK with a used
> one. I have several, including a mechanical one and I test them
> occasionally against each other. They are always within 5-10 lb ft of
> torque. That's good enough for me. You want the one that goes to 250
> ft lbs. It will have more uses on the GMC than one limited to 100 ft
> lbs.
> I love pawn shops. Better than Ebay if you know what you're looking for.
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > OK, that's what I was thinking too. And you've answered the next
> question, but please confirm, regarding which model/size to get. You're
> saying I need one that can go to 250 ft-lb? Northern Tool has a 1/2" for $40
> but it only goes to 150 ft-lb. Harbor Freight has a 1/2" for $100 that goes
> to 250. Never thought about trying pawn shops, but I'll do that. On used
> torque wrenches, can they get out of calibration?
> > Thanks,
> >
> > J "becoming a quasi auto mechanic at least in my tool collection" Rabe
> > 76 Palm Beach
> > Portland, OR
> >
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:34:12 -0700
> >> From: botiemad11@gmail.com
> >> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> >> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] hub bolt torque
> >>
> >> Jay,
> >> I doubt that you'll be able to feel 250 ft lbs of torque. Best buy
> >> the wrench and get it over with. There is more than one pair of
> >> fasteners on the GMC that will require you to use that wrench. You
> >> can save some money by first checking pawn shops. Excellent men's
> >> malls.
> >>
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] hub bolt torque [message #76498 is a reply to message #76395] |
Fri, 12 March 2010 21:53 |
amansfield1104
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2009
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I was just reading "What Every Owner Should Know" by Duane Simmons. He recommends the torque be between 130 & 150 ft-lbs. He claimed that 250 ft-lb was clause to over tensioning the studs. I don't know about the tensioning but I know the shop I bought my tires from broke one when installing the front tires.
That is what I have been using 130-150 ever since they broke a stud. I do not know where I initially found the 130 to 150 but I have gone about 4000 miles and no wheels came loose.
I still had problem getting mine off. It took a 750 ft-lb impact wrench at full pressure to get them off the other day when I had to replace a wheel cylinder. They were only on for about 2 years. I was worried I would break one to get them off. I am going to use antifreeze grease from now on.
Art Mansfield
76 EL
On Mar 11, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Dan Gregg wrote:
>
>
>
> Oh yeah, No, I didn't get the Cad running today. Lots of little unexpected
> complications. Maybe tomorrow. Hopefully only pre-oiling, coolant, 4 wires
> to stretch, and distributor installation & timing left to be done.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
>
> [/quote]
>
> Darn Ken, You and Jim K. must be running a race on those cads. Just got a note from him on his progress. Guess both of you will be ready to roll sometime Friday.
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> danandteri.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
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| Re: [GMCnet] hub bolt torque [message #76519 is a reply to message #76498] |
Sat, 13 March 2010 06:53 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| amansfield1104 wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 22:53 |
I was just reading "What Every Owner Should Know" by Duane Simmons. He recommends the torque be between 130 & 150 ft-lbs. He claimed that 250 ft-lb was clause to over tensioning the studs. I don't know about the tensioning but I know the shop I bought my tires from broke one when installing the front tires.
That is what I have been using 130-150 ever since they broke a stud. I do not know where I initially found the 130 to 150 but I have gone about 4000 miles and no wheels came loose.
I still had problem getting mine off. It took a 750 ft-lb impact wrench at full pressure to get them off the other day when I had to replace a wheel cylinder. They were only on for about 2 years. I was worried I would break one to get them off. I am going to use antifreeze grease from now on.
Art Mansfield
76 EL
|
Art,
Did you watch them replace that stud?
I found an over stressed stud some years ago. I broke it to facilitate removal only to find that replacement without Major disassembly was a real trick.
There is also a length of pipe in the coach tools in case I need to remove a wheel on the road ever. Unless they are very badly corroded, you won't fail the stud when removing the wheel because most of the applied torque goes into the nut/wheel friction.
You have just pointed out one of the top issues with what gets called "Tensioning fasteners by tighten torque alone". This is an ongoing issue in the fastener study groups. Not that many years ago (well, a decade now), I was at a conference where a contingent for USAF presented their study that identified 54 variables that had a significant influence on the final tension in a fastener tightened to a set torque.
I have no doubt that the other 53 came into play when someone determined the 240#ft value. The nut design invites high friction at high loads and that is just the starter.
Largely due to a lack of understanding back then, many companies advised against using any lubricant anyplace one the wheel retaining fasteners (lugnuts or whatever) for the fear of them losing tension (backing out) at some point. Later studies found that if they were adequately tensioned initially, this was not an issue.
Here in the rustbelt states, some variety of anti-seize or corrosion protection coating is essential if one ever hopes to remove wheels without damage. If you run through the salt slush without hubcaps, you can just about kiss-off getting wheels off studs that were assembled dry.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] hub bolt torque [message #76542 is a reply to message #76519] |
Sat, 13 March 2010 12:44 |
amansfield1104
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2009
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Hear is the quote from the document. It is meant for the original wheels.
"Wheel lug nut torque
- Use torque wrench @ 130-150 fi-lbs in sequence
- Not maint. Manual value (250 ft-lbs): studs will stretch & break"
Before I take another trip I will take all mine off and put antiseize grease on them. I do not want to be out on the road and cannot get the wheel off.
As to replacing the broken stub I watch them destroy the brake rotor with a hammer (counted 26 strikes to the rotor). Actually they damaged the hub which I did not know until I took off the hub cap. I am missing one dust cover for the from wheel. Anyone have a spare dust cover. They then replace the rotor and replace the bearings. It took them about two weeks to get it fixed. I do not what shop they used to redo the hub but I had them do the other one also. That was 4000 miles ago and no problem yet. I know if not done correctly they will fail shortly after being done. My brother in law was a mechanic and he replaced several without success. They would fail after a couple thousand miles.
Art
76 EL
On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:53 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
>
> amansfield1104 wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 22:53
>> I was just reading "What Every Owner Should Know" by Duane Simmons. He recommends the torque be between 130 & 150 ft-lbs. He claimed that 250 ft-lb was clause to over tensioning the studs. I don't know about the tensioning but I know the shop I bought my tires from broke one when installing the front tires.
>>
>> That is what I have been using 130-150 ever since they broke a stud. I do not know where I initially found the 130 to 150 but I have gone about 4000 miles and no wheels came loose.
>>
>> I still had problem getting mine off. It took a 750 ft-lb impact wrench at full pressure to get them off the other day when I had to replace a wheel cylinder. They were only on for about 2 years. I was worried I would break one to get them off. I am going to use antifreeze grease from now on.
>>
>> Art Mansfield
>> 76 EL
>
> Art,
>
> Did you watch them replace that stud?
>
> I found an over stressed stud some years ago. I broke it to facilitate removal only to find that replacement without Major disassembly was a real trick.
>
> There is also a length of pipe in the coach tools in case I need to remove a wheel on the road ever. Unless they are very badly corroded, you won't fail the stud when removing the wheel because most of the applied torque goes into the nut/wheel friction.
>
> You have just pointed out one of the top issues with what gets called "Tensioning fasteners by tighten torque alone". This is an ongoing issue in the fastener study groups. Not that many years ago (well, a decade now), I was at a conference where a contingent for USAF presented their study that identified 54 variables that had a significant influence on the final tension in a fastener tightened to a set torque.
>
> I have no doubt that the other 53 came into play when someone determined the 240#ft value. The nut design invites high friction at high loads and that is just the starter.
>
> Largely due to a lack of understanding back then, many companies advised against using any lubricant anyplace one the wheel retaining fasteners (lugnuts or whatever) for the fear of them losing tension (backing out) at some point. Later studies found that if they were adequately tensioned initially, this was not an issue.
>
> Here in the rustbelt states, some variety of anti-seize or corrosion protection coating is essential if one ever hopes to remove wheels without damage. If you run through the salt slush without hubcaps, you can just about kiss-off getting wheels off studs that were assembled dry.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
> SE Michigan
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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