Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount
| [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #74314] |
Thu, 18 February 2010 22:05  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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When I acquired my '76 Eldorado motor a couple of years ago, it came with
the standard front motor mounts for that model. A Dixielander friend soon
gave me a '68-'72 Eldorado front mount to use when I install the motor in my
GMC.
Now that it's time to do that installation, I had reservations about using
that mount. First off, the rubber in the Eldorado mount is unshielded from
engine oil leakage so it was badly deteriorated. Steele Rubber Products
will re-vulcanize them, but they charge $95.50 + S&H. Secondly, it seems to
me that the GMC"s original mount, being offset toward the driver's side is
closer to the center of gravity of the drivetrain than is the Eldorado
mount.
Inspired by Dale Fromm's fabricated front mount, I decided to try designing
my own. Dale uses the two rubber mounts provided with the later Eldorados;
I wanted to use only one. I also wanted to keep the profile of the mount as
close to the engine as feasible to simplify the arrangement of the
accessories for my planned installation of a serpentine belt to drive them.
Here's the result:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259>I'll let you
know after the engine's installed how it works. I'm usually overly
conservative in my designs and wind up with too much iron. This time I may
have erred in the other direction -- the material used is primarily 11 gauge
1"x3" steel tubing and 1/4" steel plate; both of those could easily replace
with heavier material, but all of my advisors believe this is adequate; only
time will tell.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #74336 is a reply to message #74314] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 05:41  |
Carleton Douglas[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken great design and fab job, do not agree with the stress relieving,
it is a help with mild steel.
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> When I acquired my '76 Eldorado motor a couple of years ago, it came with
> the standard front motor mounts for that model. A Dixielander friend soon
> gave me a '68-'72 Eldorado front mount to use when I install the motor in my
> GMC.
>
> Now that it's time to do that installation, I had reservations about using
> that mount. First off, the rubber in the Eldorado mount is unshielded from
> engine oil leakage so it was badly deteriorated. Steele Rubber Products
> will re-vulcanize them, but they charge $95.50 + S&H. Secondly, it seems to
> me that the GMC"s original mount, being offset toward the driver's side is
> closer to the center of gravity of the drivetrain than is the Eldorado
> mount.
>
> Inspired by Dale Fromm's fabricated front mount, I decided to try designing
> my own. Dale uses the two rubber mounts provided with the later Eldorados;
> I wanted to use only one. I also wanted to keep the profile of the mount as
> close to the engine as feasible to simplify the arrangement of the
> accessories for my planned installation of a serpentine belt to drive them.
>
> Here's the result:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259
>
> <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259>I'll let you
> know after the engine's installed how it works. I'm usually overly
> conservative in my designs and wind up with too much iron. This time I may
> have erred in the other direction -- the material used is primarily 11 gauge
> 1"x3" steel tubing and 1/4" steel plate; both of those could easily replace
> with heavier material, but all of my advisors believe this is adequate; only
> time will tell.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #74386 is a reply to message #74379] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 19:18 |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Very nice job, Ken
And special thanks for taking the time to do such a beautiful job of documenting and photographing it for us.
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #74388 is a reply to message #74336] |
Fri, 19 February 2010 19:17 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Carleton,
Tell me more about "do not agree with the stress relieving,
it is a help with mild steel."
The little metallurgy I studied is so far in the past that about all I
remember is that there is such a thing. My welder thought it was
worthwhile, but they don't do any in their day-to-day jobs. Do you think it
was not worth the effort, or did I do bad?
At the very least, it gave a nice patina to the metal and it didn't
flash-rust before I could paint it. :-)
Ken H.
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Carleton Douglas <aecsdouglas@gmail.com>wrote:
> Ken great design and fab job, do not agree with the stress relieving,
> it is a help with mild steel.
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
> > When I acquired my '76 Eldorado motor a couple of years ago, it came with
> > the standard front motor mounts for that model. A Dixielander friend
> soon
> > gave me a '68-'72 Eldorado front mount to use when I install the motor in
> my
> > GMC.
> >
> > Now that it's time to do that installation, I had reservations about
> using
> > that mount. First off, the rubber in the Eldorado mount is unshielded
> from
> > engine oil leakage so it was badly deteriorated. Steele Rubber Products
> > will re-vulcanize them, but they charge $95.50 + S&H. Secondly, it seems
> to
> > me that the GMC"s original mount, being offset toward the driver's side
> is
> > closer to the center of gravity of the drivetrain than is the Eldorado
> > mount.
> >
> > Inspired by Dale Fromm's fabricated front mount, I decided to try
> designing
> > my own. Dale uses the two rubber mounts provided with the later
> Eldorados;
> > I wanted to use only one. I also wanted to keep the profile of the mount
> as
> > close to the engine as feasible to simplify the arrangement of the
> > accessories for my planned installation of a serpentine belt to drive
> them.
> >
> > Here's the result:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259
> >
> > <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259>I'll let
> you
> > know after the engine's installed how it works. I'm usually overly
> > conservative in my designs and wind up with too much iron. This time I
> may
> > have erred in the other direction -- the material used is primarily 11
> gauge
> > 1"x3" steel tubing and 1/4" steel plate; both of those could easily
> replace
> > with heavier material, but all of my advisors believe this is adequate;
> only
> > time will tell.
> >
> > Ken H.
> > Americus, GA
> > '76 X-Birchaven
> > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carleton Douglas
> 73 custom, by myself
> Prescott, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #74436 is a reply to message #74424] |
Sat, 20 February 2010 07:10 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| GMCWiperMan wrote on Sat, 20 February 2010 00:07 |
Bob,
Of course, I don't have the engine installed yet, but I did test fit the
mount. There's plenty of clearance since the base plate sets on top of the
Olds mount, giving that 1"+ above the cross member. As a WAG the drag link
is 3/4" lower than that, so I'd say 1-3/4" minimum.
Ken H.
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Bob Drewes <bmdrewes@iw.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ken;
>
> How much clearance does the fabricated engine mount have above the steering
> drag link that is behind the main crossover frame?
>
> Bob D in SESD
> _______________________________________________
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Humm...any chance you designed for a flat floor. or that your design will give you a flat floor?
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #75048 is a reply to message #74424] |
Fri, 26 February 2010 22:53 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
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Bob,
A follow up on your question about clearance between my new Cad500 motor
mount and the drag link:
Today I double checked and found that my memory was wrong: The drag link
sets about 3/4" ABOVE the main crossmember, not below as I recalled. That
seriously reduces the clearance from my motor mount, reducing it from my
predicted 1-3/4" to 3/4" or less. :-(
But that's not quite as bad as it sounds because the Olds motor mount itself
will bottom out, steel-to-steel at about 1/4", leaving a minimum of 1/4"
clearance. That's pretty close, particularly since word relay arm or idler
arm bushings could conceivably allow that much vertical motion. And it's
possible that the base plate of my mount could flex or bend. I may wind up
shimming between the crossmember and the bottom of the mount. We'll see
what we see upon installation. At least it will be a very easy fix.
Thanks for reminding me of that.
Ken H.
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Of course, I don't have the engine installed yet, but I did test fit the
> mount. There's plenty of clearance since the base plate sets on top of the
> Olds mount, giving that 1"+ above the cross member. As a WAG the drag link
> is 3/4" lower than that, so I'd say 1-3/4" minimum.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Bob Drewes <bmdrewes@iw.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ken;
>>
>> How much clearance does the fabricated engine mount have above the
>> steering drag link that is behind the main crossover frame?
>>
>> Bob D in SESD
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #75054 is a reply to message #75050] |
Sat, 27 February 2010 05:41 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
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Dan,
I moved the engine from the engine builder's shop to the welder/machinist's
today and began figuring out the serpentine belt setup for the accessories.
I moved it on a trailer, intending to move it home this evening since the
shop's closed over the weekend, only to take it back Monday morning. Just
before quitting time, the shop owner handed me the keys to the place so I
can work in his shop, not even moving my pickup and (his) trailer out to
take it home. That will be a big help because I'll have full access to all
of the metal inventory, the machinery, etc., instead of having to make
cardboard templates to bring in on Monday.
John Nicholls is coming Sunday evening to spend a few days helping me get
ready and install the engine. My son may come later in the week. With any
luck I'll have it running by the end of next weekend, leaving almost an
entire week to accumulate a few local miles, stop the leaks which seem to be
inevitable; and, prep & pack for the trip. We really need to leave here NO
later than 14 March to fulfill my GMCMI commitments.
Y'All keep your fingers crossed for me. :-)
Ken H.
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> So Ken, with about a 2 week departure date, where are you in this process?
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> danandteri.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #75133 is a reply to message #74388] |
Sun, 28 February 2010 07:26 |
Carleton Douglas[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ken, mild steel / low carbon steal will not heat treat because it has
very little carbon in it and other elements like chrome and manganese,
but mostly carbon. No need to anneal it as it will do nothing other
than relieve a few stresses in the heat effected area and you loose
the strength of the weld, just weld and for get it. If you were
working with 4130 or 4140 you should do the annealing.
I would like to join the Fuel injection group, as I'm using a stock
454 throttle body and ecm, is that possible?
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Carleton,
>
> Tell me more about "do not agree with the stress relieving,
> it is a help with mild steel."
>
> The little metallurgy I studied is so far in the past that about all I
> remember is that there is such a thing. My welder thought it was
> worthwhile, but they don't do any in their day-to-day jobs. Do you think it
> was not worth the effort, or did I do bad?
>
> At the very least, it gave a nice patina to the metal and it didn't
> flash-rust before I could paint it. :-)
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Carleton Douglas <aecsdouglas@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Ken great design and fab job, do not agree with the stress relieving,
>> it is a help with mild steel.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
>> wrote:
>> > When I acquired my '76 Eldorado motor a couple of years ago, it came with
>> > the standard front motor mounts for that model. A Dixielander friend
>> soon
>> > gave me a '68-'72 Eldorado front mount to use when I install the motor in
>> my
>> > GMC.
>> >
>> > Now that it's time to do that installation, I had reservations about
>> using
>> > that mount. First off, the rubber in the Eldorado mount is unshielded
>> from
>> > engine oil leakage so it was badly deteriorated. Steele Rubber Products
>> > will re-vulcanize them, but they charge $95.50 + S&H. Secondly, it seems
>> to
>> > me that the GMC"s original mount, being offset toward the driver's side
>> is
>> > closer to the center of gravity of the drivetrain than is the Eldorado
>> > mount.
>> >
>> > Inspired by Dale Fromm's fabricated front mount, I decided to try
>> designing
>> > my own. Dale uses the two rubber mounts provided with the later
>> Eldorados;
>> > I wanted to use only one. I also wanted to keep the profile of the mount
>> as
>> > close to the engine as feasible to simplify the arrangement of the
>> > accessories for my planned installation of a serpentine belt to drive
>> them.
>> >
>> > Here's the result:
>> >
>> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259
>> >
>> > <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259>I'll let
>> you
>> > know after the engine's installed how it works. I'm usually overly
>> > conservative in my designs and wind up with too much iron. This time I
>> may
>> > have erred in the other direction -- the material used is primarily 11
>> gauge
>> > 1"x3" steel tubing and 1/4" steel plate; both of those could easily
>> replace
>> > with heavier material, but all of my advisors believe this is adequate;
>> only
>> > time will tell.
>> >
>> > Ken H.
>> > Americus, GA
>> > '76 X-Birchaven
>> > www.gmcwipersetc.com
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GMCnet mailing list
>> > List Information and Subscription Options:
>> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carleton Douglas
>> 73 custom, by myself
>> Prescott, AZ
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 Front Motor Mount [message #75139 is a reply to message #75133] |
Sun, 28 February 2010 08:50 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks, Carleton,
At least I feel better about it and the steel assumed a nice rust-resistant
patina before I painted it. :-)
I'm off to the metal show for accessory mounting design and fabrication.
Ken H.
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Carleton Douglas <aecsdouglas@gmail.com>wrote:
> Ken, mild steel / low carbon steal will not heat treat because it has
> very little carbon in it and other elements like chrome and manganese,
> but mostly carbon. No need to anneal it as it will do nothing other
> than relieve a few stresses in the heat effected area and you loose
> the strength of the weld, just weld and for get it. If you were
> working with 4130 or 4140 you should do the annealing.
>
> I would like to join the Fuel injection group, as I'm using a stock
> 454 throttle body and ecm, is that possible?
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Carleton,
> >
> > Tell me more about "do not agree with the stress relieving,
> > it is a help with mild steel."
> >
> > The little metallurgy I studied is so far in the past that about all I
> > remember is that there is such a thing. My welder thought it was
> > worthwhile, but they don't do any in their day-to-day jobs. Do you think
> it
> > was not worth the effort, or did I do bad?
> >
> > At the very least, it gave a nice patina to the metal and it didn't
> > flash-rust before I could paint it. :-)
> >
> > Ken H.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Carleton Douglas <aecsdouglas@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Ken great design and fab job, do not agree with the stress relieving,
> >> it is a help with mild steel.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > When I acquired my '76 Eldorado motor a couple of years ago, it came
> with
> >> > the standard front motor mounts for that model. A Dixielander friend
> >> soon
> >> > gave me a '68-'72 Eldorado front mount to use when I install the motor
> in
> >> my
> >> > GMC.
> >> >
> >> > Now that it's time to do that installation, I had reservations about
> >> using
> >> > that mount. First off, the rubber in the Eldorado mount is unshielded
> >> from
> >> > engine oil leakage so it was badly deteriorated. Steele Rubber
> Products
> >> > will re-vulcanize them, but they charge $95.50 + S&H. Secondly, it
> seems
> >> to
> >> > me that the GMC"s original mount, being offset toward the driver's
> side
> >> is
> >> > closer to the center of gravity of the drivetrain than is the Eldorado
> >> > mount.
> >> >
> >> > Inspired by Dale Fromm's fabricated front mount, I decided to try
> >> designing
> >> > my own. Dale uses the two rubber mounts provided with the later
> >> Eldorados;
> >> > I wanted to use only one. I also wanted to keep the profile of the
> mount
> >> as
> >> > close to the engine as feasible to simplify the arrangement of the
> >> > accessories for my planned installation of a serpentine belt to drive
> >> them.
> >> >
> >> > Here's the result:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259
> >> >
> >> > <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5259>I'll let
> >> you
> >> > know after the engine's installed how it works. I'm usually overly
> >> > conservative in my designs and wind up with too much iron. This time
> I
> >> may
> >> > have erred in the other direction -- the material used is primarily 11
> >> gauge
> >> > 1"x3" steel tubing and 1/4" steel plate; both of those could easily
> >> replace
> >> > with heavier material, but all of my advisors believe this is
> adequate;
> >> only
> >> > time will tell.
> >> >
> >> > Ken H.
> >> > Americus, GA
> >> > '76 X-Birchaven
> >> > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > GMCnet mailing list
> >> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> >> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Carleton Douglas
> >> 73 custom, by myself
> >> Prescott, AZ
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carleton Douglas
> 73 custom, by myself
> Prescott, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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