| engine block repair, not GMC [message #73653] |
Fri, 12 February 2010 18:10  |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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at the railroad we have a 2 cyl diesel that keeps blowing a head gasket. there is a little depression between the cyl bore and a water jacket hole. it is just low enough to not allow the gasket to seal for very long.
i'm hoping with the bank of knowledge here that somebody might suggest a fix for this. we haven't found a shop that can surface the top of the block down here. is there something like JB Weld that could fill the little spot and make the gasket hold?
thanks,
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] engine block repair, not GMC [message #73655 is a reply to message #73653] |
Fri, 12 February 2010 18:28  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
If the head is off a picture might help.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of fred veenschoten
Sent: Saturday, 13 February 2010 11:11 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] engine block repair, not GMC
at the railroad we have a 2 cyl diesel that keeps blowing a head gasket.
there is a little depression between the cyl bore and a water jacket hole.
it is just low enough to not allow the gasket to seal for very long.
i'm hoping with the bank of knowledge here that somebody might suggest a fix
for this. we haven't found a shop that can surface the top of the block down
here. is there something like JB Weld that could fill the little spot and
make the gasket hold?
thanks,
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] engine block repair, not GMC [message #73657 is a reply to message #73653] |
Fri, 12 February 2010 19:25 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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If I'm not mistaken, JB Weld has several versions. It might
be possible that one of these would handle the temperatures
involved. Clean the top of the block super-sano and follow
whatever other prep that JB Weld requests. Be sure to put
only a bit more than needed into the area. Feather the edges
of the JB-Weld. Then, I'd suggest that you wait at least a
full day before continuing. Once the JB has set up, then
use a very fine-tooth flat file to CAREFULLY bring the patch
down to level with the block.
Worth a try, I'd say.
Remember that this advice is worth no more than what you have
paid for it!
Cheers,
Mac Macdonald
Oklahoma City
___________________________
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
From: fredntoni@cox.net
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:10:51 -0600
Subject: [GMCnet] engine block repair, not GMC
at the railroad we have a 2 cyl diesel that keeps blowing a
head gasket. there is a little depression between the cyl bore
and a water jacket hole. it is just low enough to not allow
the gasket to seal for very long.
i'm hoping with the bank of knowledge here that somebody might
suggest a fix for this. we haven't found a shop that can
surface the top of the block down here. is there something
like JB Weld that could fill the little spot and make the
gasket hold?
thanks,
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
_______________________________________________
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: engine block repair, not GMC [message #73697 is a reply to message #73653] |
Sat, 13 February 2010 07:38 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| fred v wrote on Fri, 12 February 2010 19:10 |
at the railroad we have a 2 cyl diesel that keeps blowing a head gasket. there is a little depression between the cyl bore and a water jacket hole. it is just low enough to not allow the gasket to seal for very long.
I'm hoping with the bank of knowledge here that somebody might suggest a fix for this. we haven't found a shop that can surface the top of the block down here. is there something like JB Weld that could fill the little spot and make the gasket hold?
thanks,
|
Fred,
There is just a whole of information missing here, but I am going to do the best I can to answer this.
How Deep is this depression?
Is it a smooth or rough finish in the area?
Is this engine a parent metal or a sleeve?
Is it a bank or single head?
In most cases, fire deck damage can be filled with solder - yes - 50/50 plumbing solder (if you can find any these days) and draw filed to surface. Detroit does this as a casting repair and little NA diesels have no higher cylinder temperature and pressure than passcar engines.
Assuming it is an iron block, it can be welded with a high nickel rod no matter what the causal issue. Some problems may require that the casting be stress relieved before final finishing. All castings will benefit from significant preheating - this is an always true that is largely limited by both the amount of disassembly that is practical and the heat tolerance of the welder. (The welder is going to have to hover over the hot casting for the entire process and if he is not accustomed to "hot welding", he will not be prepared.)
You still have to get back to the cause.
Can you send pictures and conditions to matt colie at chartermi dot net? (remove the spaces and make this an @ddress)
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] engine block repair, not GMC [message #73699 is a reply to message #73653] |
Sat, 13 February 2010 07:47 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
Most speed shops can machine an O ring groove in the deck for perfect
sealing. Common on supercharged engines that have high cyl pressures.
If you are just filling a slight depression, I can't see why JB weld
won't work.
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 5:10 PM, fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> at the railroad we have a 2 cyl diesel that keeps blowing a head gasket. there is a little depression between the cyl bore and a water jacket hole. it is just low enough to not allow the gasket to seal for very long.
> i'm hoping with the bank of knowledge here that somebody might suggest a fix for this. we haven't found a shop that can surface the top of the block down here. is there something like JB Weld that could fill the little spot and make the gasket hold?
> thanks,
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: engine block repair, not GMC [message #73706 is a reply to message #73653] |
Sat, 13 February 2010 08:58 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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thanks for the replies so far. he is about to pull the head again. i am taking the gasket to a water jet guy and have a new one cut from 1/16" copper. the engine is a Dorman from the UK and a gasket is 300 pounds sterling!
when the head comes off i'll get some pics and post them.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: engine block repair, not GMC [message #73709 is a reply to message #73706] |
Sat, 13 February 2010 09:33 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| fred v wrote on Sat, 13 February 2010 09:58 |
thanks for the replies so far. he is about to pull the head again. i am taking the gasket to a water jet guy and have a new one cut from 1/16" copper. the engine is a Dorman from the UK and a gasket is 300 pounds sterling!
when the head comes off i'll get some pics and post them.
|
Fred,
Before you do that, Get the head off and look at the old gasket. There is is lot that goes on there that is not obvious to a casual observer. The limited amount of load that the cylinder head fasteners provide must be distributed effectively - not evenly.
Even if the original was annealed copper sheet, there may be features there that are important.
Why it is 300quid I have no bet, did you try to source it in the US? There are still three good manufactures Victor, Fruenburg and Fel-Pro. Victor and Fel-Pro used to have good broad catalogues. It is worth a try at a real parts site or store.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: engine block repair, not GMC [message #73730 is a reply to message #73706] |
Sat, 13 February 2010 15:56 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| fred v wrote on Sat, 13 February 2010 08:58 |
thanks for the replies so far. he is about to pull the head again. i am taking the gasket to a water jet guy and have a new one cut from 1/16" copper. the engine is a Dorman from the UK and a gasket is 300 pounds sterling!
when the head comes off i'll get some pics and post them.
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At $470 a copy, is the gasket solid gold or solid platinum?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: engine block repair, not GMC [message #73742 is a reply to message #73653] |
Sat, 13 February 2010 17:44 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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thanks for the web site, i'll have a look but the guy at the track has already been in touch with them. Dorman engines were sold in the US but he hasn't been able to find any parts so far.
the original gasket is a typical laminate of metal/paper?/metal and i agree that that would be a better way to go than copper. we had an alum. one cut when it blew the first time. see pic:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/uploads/1722/Gareth_head_gasket.JPG
i think the head will come off again next week. we have the first original gasket and i'll get pix of it too.
i really appreciate you guys helping with this.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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