Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Cad 500 and dash heater
| Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71291] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 14:17  |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I am running the Cad 500 in my 78' Royale. Last fall we traveled to Pueblo CO. for the international rally. After the rally, we saw a little of Colorado before being forced to come home because of snow, ice and cold weather. One of the things we noticed was that at temps below 32* or so, we were unable to get the engine temp above 140*, so the dash heater blew only...barely warm...air. I thought I had a bad thermostat. Pulled the thermostat out and tested it only to find that it worked fine. I got to talking with Bob Miller who also runs a Cad 500, and asked if he had problems with a lack of dash heat in cold weather. His answer was yes and he found the reason for it. The Cad 500 does not have heater outlets on the water pump..as does the 403 or 455 Olds. So the heater must get its hot water from the RR cylinder head. That water is split between the dash heater and the house water heater, and the return is to the hot side of the radiator. The hot water heater run does not have a restrictor in it, the house heater draws so much heat from the cooling system that it will not allow the engine temp to come up. So at Bob's suggestion, I put a PEX ball valve in the house heater line, and shut it off on our December 31st drive from Wisconsin to Florida. Without the house water heater in the circuit, engine temp went to 195* and we had lots of heat coming out of the dash. Enough to keep us warm during our single digit degree drive from Menomonie to Crossville TN.
So if you are running a Cad 500 and having trouble with low engine temp or dash heat during cold weather runs, shut off the water going to the house water heater...may improve engine temp and dash heat output.
Makes me wonder if this might also help out the 455...???
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71347 is a reply to message #71291] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 20:19  |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Both the 403 and 455 Olds motors take the hot water supply for
the heater from the rear of the RH cylinder head. They then
return the water to the
suction area of the water pump. This is the lowest pressure
point in the system. On my Cad 500, I returned it to the lower
radiator hose, which is
equivalent to the inlet of the pump. JWID
Gary Kosier
77EII & 77PB
Newark, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <weidnerl@wwt.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:17 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater
>
>
> I am running the Cad 500 in my 78' Royale. Last fall we
> traveled to Pueblo CO. for the international rally. After the
> rally, we saw a little of Colorado before being forced to come
> home because of snow, ice and cold weather. One of the things
> we noticed was that at temps below 32* or so, we were unable to
> get the engine temp above 140*, so the dash heater blew
> only...barely warm...air. I thought I had a bad thermostat.
> Pulled the thermostat out and tested it only to find that it
> worked fine. I got to talking with Bob Miller who also runs a
> Cad 500, and asked if he had problems with a lack of dash heat
> in cold weather. His answer was yes and he found the reason
> for it. The Cad 500 does not have heater outlets on the water
> pump..as does the 403 or 455 Olds. So the heater must get its
> hot water from the RR cylinder head. That water is split
> between the dash heater and the house water heater, and the
> return is to the hot side of the radiator. The hot water
> heater run doe
> s not have a restrictor in it, the house heater draws so much
> heat from the cooling system that it will not allow the engine
> temp to come up. So at Bob's suggestion, I put a PEX ball valve
> in the house heater line, and shut it off on our December 31st
> drive from Wisconsin to Florida. Without the house water heater
> in the circuit, engine temp went to 195* and we had lots of
> heat coming out of the dash. Enough to keep us warm during our
> single digit degree drive from Menomonie to Crossville TN.
>
> So if you are running a Cad 500 and having trouble with low
> engine temp or dash heat during cold weather runs, shut off the
> water going to the house water heater...may improve engine temp
> and dash heat output.
>
> Makes me wonder if this might also help out the 455...???
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71354 is a reply to message #71347] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 21:14 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I was running my CAD with a fitting on the right side radiator tank.
I think I'll use (COPY) your techique on my new set up with Aluminum radiator.
The twin turbos are water cooled and add lot to the cooling system.
Latest news on my 540 CAD is that the valve seat came out.
The shop that did this has not done a good job. First it was a Valve
guide,now a valve seat.
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Larry,
>
> Both the 403 and 455 Olds motors take the hot water supply for
> the heater from the rear of the RH cylinder head. Â They then
> return the water to the
> suction area of the water pump. Â This is the lowest pressure
> point in the system. Â On my Cad 500, I returned it to the lower
> radiator hose, which is
> equivalent to the inlet of the pump. JWID
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77EII & 77PB
> Newark, Ohio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry" <weidnerl@wwt.net>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:17 PM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater
>
>
>>
>>
>> I am running the Cad 500 in my 78' Royale. Â Last fall we
>> traveled to Pueblo CO. for the international rally. After the
>> rally, we saw a little of Colorado before being forced to come
>> home because of snow, ice and cold weather. Â One of the things
>> we noticed was that at temps below 32* or so, we were unable to
>> get the engine temp above 140*, so the dash heater blew
>> only...barely warm...air. Â I thought I had a bad thermostat.
>> Pulled the thermostat out and tested it only to find that it
>> worked fine. Â I got to talking with Bob Miller who also runs a
>> Cad 500, and asked if he had problems with a lack of dash heat
>> in cold weather. Â His answer was yes and he found the reason
>> for it. Â The Cad 500 does not have heater outlets on the water
>> pump..as does the 403 or 455 Olds. So the heater must get its
>> hot water from the RR cylinder head. Â That water is split
>> between the dash heater and the house water heater, and the
>> return is to the hot side of the radiator. Â The hot water
>> heater run doe
>> s not have a restrictor in it, Â the house heater draws so much
>> heat from the cooling system that it will not allow the engine
>> temp to come up. So at Bob's suggestion, I put a PEX ball valve
>> in the house heater line, and shut it off on our December 31st
>> drive from Wisconsin to Florida. Without the house water heater
>> in the circuit, engine temp went to 195* and we had lots of
>> heat coming out of the dash. Â Enough to keep us warm during our
>> single digit degree drive from Menomonie to Crossville TN.
>>
>> So if you are running a Cad 500 and having trouble with low
>> engine temp or dash heat during cold weather runs, shut off the
>> water going to the house water heater...may improve engine temp
>> and dash heat output.
>>
>> Makes me wonder if this might also help out the 455...???
>> --
>> Larry  :)
>> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
>> Menomonie, WI.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71364 is a reply to message #71354] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 22:56 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
FYI I had Jerry Potter install stellite exhaust valve seats and high
performance valves in the Caddy 500 I am building to run on LPG.
Since the engine is still in a crate I cannot testify to his workmanship but
when I visited his machine shop and workshop I was impressed with what I
saw.
If you want to go OTT get his aluminum heads for Caddy 500's.
http://www.cadillacperformanceparts.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=vi
ew&id=48&Itemid=67
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Thursday, 21 January 2010 2:15 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater
Gary,
I was running my CAD with a fitting on the right side radiator tank.
I think I'll use (COPY) your techique on my new set up with Aluminum
radiator.
The twin turbos are water cooled and add lot to the cooling system.
Latest news on my 540 CAD is that the valve seat came out.
The shop that did this has not done a good job. First it was a Valve
guide,now a valve seat.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71379 is a reply to message #71359] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 06:52 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Wed, 20 January 2010 22:20 |
why would you want to run your engine hotter?--- not just for a heater !!
Mondello would only warranty my engine if I used a restrictor rather than a
thermostat. He said the engine normally wants to run at 180 deg. (and it
does). He did not want to heat up the engine just for a heater. Said, in
a Motorhome, they will always come up to temp.
just wondering
gene
|
Hey Gene...long time no see 
From all I've read, and experienced, the 500 runs/performs best at near 220*. At least that is what the 500 experts say. And I must say, when the temp is up at 195*+, it does run better. In my experience, cooler engine temps...especially below 160* tend to allow sludge build-up. I've noticed this on motors I have disassembled where there was no thermostat or the thermostat was stuck open. And finally, a heater may not be a relevant issue for those living in the south, but for us northerners, at below 0* temps....we need heat during the cold months while we travel from north to south.
Any chance you are coming to Montgomery rally?
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71384 is a reply to message #71366] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 08:12 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| jimk wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 00:38 |
I did not get a chance to get the full report yet.
I suspect that the particles from the seat and the valve must traveled from cylinder to cylinder and wiped out 4 spark plugs.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
|
Jim,
This variety of a catastrophic failure is not all that uncommon. What it does mean is that the shop blew the press-fit of the inserts. Twice, it sounds like. I would be upset with them (maybe upset enough to do something rash). The difference in internal temperatures because of addition of the turbo-chargers is no excuse. The actual cylinder head temperatures will not be that much higher than can be reached with an NA engine under severe conditions (like dragging a 12K# coach up hill in California).
You do know that Western Union has been force to cancel the "BlastoGram(tm)" service? How Sad.
Wouldn't it be nice to arrange for them to show up Monday morning to a smoldering crater with a little note on it that says - Courtesy of Jim at Applied - ?? (Can you tell that I have had a couple of poor suppliers?)
Once the seat gets loose, it will often break up in the cylinder and then there is no valve where it used to be and that allows what is now "foreign material" (not with reference to anybody's personal background) to be blown around in the manifolds - most often the intake - where it can cause the failure of other valves and then the damage "cascades".
If it damaged four other spark plugs, it probably also took out the related four pistons. If you got it shut down soon enough, you may be able to save the block.
Please let us know how bad it is when it gets cracked open.
It does tend to piss a guy off when you pay good money and get s**t work for it.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71395 is a reply to message #71384] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 09:49 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
They all give excuses as to what went wrong and refuse to do anything.
This shop thinks they are the best. If they are, hate to see the worst one.
It all comes down to the person that did the work.
Our guys hate to see me in the shop as I am quick to critique them.
If I do not, we will be no better than another shop.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Matt Colie <mcolie@chartermi.net> wrote:
>
>
> jimk wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 00:38
>> I did not get a chance to get the full report yet.
>> I suspect that the particles from the seat and the valve must traveled from cylinder to cylinder and wiped out 4 spark plugs.
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
>
> Jim,
>
> This variety of a catastrophic failure is not all that uncommon. Â What it does mean is that the shop blew the press-fit of the inserts. Â Twice, it sounds like. Â I would be upset with them (maybe upset enough to do something rash). Â The difference in internal temperatures because of addition of the turbo-chargers is no excuse. Â The actual cylinder head temperatures will not be that much higher than can be reached with an NA engine under severe conditions (like dragging a 12K# coach up hill in California).
>
> You do know that Western Union has been force to cancel the "BlastoGram(tm)" service? Â How Sad.
> Wouldn't it be nice to arrange for them to show up Monday morning to a smoldering crater with a little note on it that says - Courtesy of Jim at Applied - ?? Â (Can you tell that I have had a couple of poor suppliers?)
>
> Once the seat gets loose, it will often break up in the cylinder and then there is no valve where it used to be and that allows what is now "foreign material" (not with reference to anybody's personal background) to be blown around in the manifolds - most often the intake - where it can cause the failure of other valves and then the damage "cascades".
>
> If it damaged four other spark plugs, it probably also took out the related four pistons. Â If you got it shut down soon enough, you may be able to save the block.
>
> Please let us know how bad it is when it gets cracked open.
>
> It does tend to piss a guy off when you pay good money and get s**t work for it.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
> SE Michigan
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71439 is a reply to message #71384] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 17:06 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
I have never done my own automobile cylinder heads (other than lapping in
the valves) however, I have done some aluminum motorcycle heads and IIRC I
put the head in an oven and froze the seats.
Is it not a "best practice" to freeze the valve inserts and heat the
cylinder heads on car engines?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Jim,
This variety of a catastrophic failure is not all that uncommon. What it
does mean is that the shop blew the press-fit of the inserts. Twice, it
sounds like. I would be upset with them (maybe upset enough to do something
rash). The difference in internal temperatures because of addition of the
turbo-chargers is no excuse. The actual cylinder head temperatures will not
be that much higher than can be reached with an NA engine under severe
conditions (like dragging a 12K# coach up hill in California).
Matt
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71449 is a reply to message #71291] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 17:45 |
Firefly
Messages: 98
Registered: May 2008
Location: Augusta, Maine
Karma: 0
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Member |
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JimK:
Prior to this, I was under the impression that you did all of the work on your GMCs at your shop. Not true? I was hoping to have some work done (Auger's rear brake/torque arm setup) after my first cross-country trip in the stretch.
Are you going to share with us the name of the offending service provider so that none of us is victimized in the future?
Good luck as always.
Mark Scoble, Lunenburg, MA - 1973 23' Palm Beach Stretched to 32' and in residence at the GMC Co-Op in Orlando, FL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71451 is a reply to message #71439] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 17:49 |
Carleton Douglas[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The use of Dry Ice and Acetone and is the way that we did it in aircraft.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I have never done my own automobile cylinder heads (other than lapping in
> the valves) however, I have done some aluminum motorcycle heads and IIRC I
> put the head in an oven and froze the seats.
>
> Is it not a "best practice" to freeze the valve inserts and heat the
> cylinder heads on car engines?
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> Jim,
>
> This variety of a catastrophic failure is not all that uncommon. What it
> does mean is that the shop blew the press-fit of the inserts. Twice, it
> sounds like. I would be upset with them (maybe upset enough to do something
> rash). The difference in internal temperatures because of addition of the
> turbo-chargers is no excuse. The actual cylinder head temperatures will not
> be that much higher than can be reached with an NA engine under severe
> conditions (like dragging a 12K# coach up hill in California).
>
> Matt
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71456 is a reply to message #71439] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 18:17 |
|
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 18:06 |
Matt,
I have never done my own automobile cylinder heads (other than lapping in the valves) however, I have done some aluminum motorcycle heads and IIRC I put the head in an oven and froze the seats.
Is it not a "best practice" to freeze the valve inserts and heat the cylinder heads on car engines?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
|
Rob,
Yes, and it is particularly important with alloy castings.
Two Detroit lines I know of heat the castings and bring in the inserts cold. They also have just amazing dimensional controls on all the associated parts.
Unfortunately, what happens in most automotive machine shops is not mentioned in any best practices manual. I watched one day as a hammer mechanic ruined an otherwise good head casting by starting a seat insert with it cocked just enough so it carved a chip out of the counterbore the was visible in the ID of the insert. If I hadn't pointed it out to the owner of the shop, he would have ground the seat true and shipped it.
A very good shop that I used to work with actually inspected and measured each and every seat and guide insert and machined accordingly. They also put the castings in an oven (not real hot, but enough to make holding uncomfortable and used liquid nitrogen to chill the parts. When the technician would drop the insert in (it would usually fall into position), it would ring until it made a strange squelch as it warmed up - neat sound.
I asked why they didn't use dry ice and acetone and was given two reasons. The big one was that LN2 is not flammable. Another was that LN2 is ~-300*F and the other is only ~-100*F and the casting would have to be too hot to handle safely and would cool too fast.
Probably more than you wanted to know, but there it is.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71458 is a reply to message #71354] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 18:20 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Use a Gates #79615 tee with a couple of Gates #32948 Shrink-wrap
bands.
With a little careful fitting, it won't even show.
Gary Kosier
77EII & 77PB
Newark, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Kanomata" <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater
> Gary,
> I was running my CAD with a fitting on the right side radiator
> tank.
> I think I'll use (COPY) your techique on my new set up with
> Aluminum radiator.
> The twin turbos are water cooled and add lot to the cooling
> system.
> Latest news on my 540 CAD is that the valve seat came out.
> The shop that did this has not done a good job. First it was a
> Valve
> guide,now a valve seat.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Kosier
> <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> Larry,
>>
>> Both the 403 and 455 Olds motors take the hot water supply for
>> the heater from the rear of the RH cylinder head. Â They then
>> return the water to the
>> suction area of the water pump. Â This is the lowest pressure
>> point in the system. Â On my Cad 500, I returned it to the
>> lower
>> radiator hose, which is
>> equivalent to the inlet of the pump. JWID
>>
>> Gary Kosier
>> 77EII & 77PB
>> Newark, Ohio
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Larry" <weidnerl@wwt.net>
>> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:17 PM
>> Subject: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am running the Cad 500 in my 78' Royale. Â Last fall we
>>> traveled to Pueblo CO. for the international rally. After the
>>> rally, we saw a little of Colorado before being forced to
>>> come
>>> home because of snow, ice and cold weather. Â One of the
>>> things
>>> we noticed was that at temps below 32* or so, we were unable
>>> to
>>> get the engine temp above 140*, so the dash heater blew
>>> only...barely warm...air. Â I thought I had a bad thermostat.
>>> Pulled the thermostat out and tested it only to find that it
>>> worked fine. Â I got to talking with Bob Miller who also runs
>>> a
>>> Cad 500, and asked if he had problems with a lack of dash
>>> heat
>>> in cold weather. Â His answer was yes and he found the reason
>>> for it. Â The Cad 500 does not have heater outlets on the
>>> water
>>> pump..as does the 403 or 455 Olds. So the heater must get its
>>> hot water from the RR cylinder head. Â That water is split
>>> between the dash heater and the house water heater, and the
>>> return is to the hot side of the radiator. Â The hot water
>>> heater run doe
>>> s not have a restrictor in it, Â the house heater draws so
>>> much
>>> heat from the cooling system that it will not allow the
>>> engine
>>> temp to come up. So at Bob's suggestion, I put a PEX ball
>>> valve
>>> in the house heater line, and shut it off on our December
>>> 31st
>>> drive from Wisconsin to Florida. Without the house water
>>> heater
>>> in the circuit, engine temp went to 195* and we had lots of
>>> heat coming out of the dash. Â Enough to keep us warm during
>>> our
>>> single digit degree drive from Menomonie to Crossville TN.
>>>
>>> So if you are running a Cad 500 and having trouble with low
>>> engine temp or dash heat during cold weather runs, shut off
>>> the
>>> water going to the house water heater...may improve engine
>>> temp
>>> and dash heat output.
>>>
>>> Makes me wonder if this might also help out the 455...???
>>> --
>>> Larry  :)
>>> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
>>> Menomonie, WI.
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71465 is a reply to message #71378] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 18:45 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <weidnerl@wwt.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater
>
>
> Kosier wrote on Wed, 20 January 2010 20:19
>> Larry,
>>
>> Both the 403 and 455 Olds motors take the hot water supply for
>> the heater from the rear of the RH cylinder head. They then
>> return the water to the
>> suction area of the water pump. This is the lowest pressure
>> point in the system. On my Cad 500, I returned it to the
>> lower
>> radiator hose, which is
>> equivalent to the inlet of the pump. JWID
>>
>> Gary Kosier
>
> Humm...wish I had known that. Do you have good heat in cold
> weather? Got a pic of this lower radiator hose return?
> Thanks Gary
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
Welllll... I'm not real sure if we've been out in any really
frigid weather. But, I put a plastic tie around the vacuum
shut-off
valve in the heater and I've had to take it off a couple of times
to get some heat. We've always had plenty of heat.
However, now that I think about it, years ago I restricted the
side of the tee in the heater hose that goes to the water heater.
That, plus returning the water to the inlet of the pump seemed to
take care of things.
I'm not sure I can get much of a picture. The way I fitted
things up, you can't even see any of the tee. Covered by hose.
Gary Kosier
77EII & 77PB
Newark, Ohio
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71469 is a reply to message #71439] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 19:03 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Matt, or someone,
Can you explain the unexpected comment I found in the Cadillac 500 manual at
the end of the section on valve reconditioning?: "Lapping is not
recommended."
I'd always considered lapping to be the final, ultimate, step in a top
quality valve job. Unnecessary most of the time with modern equipment, yes,
but still a nice final touch. Polished off with seeing whether rotating the
valve on its seat would erase pencil marks. What's changed?
Ken H.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I have never done my own automobile cylinder heads (other than lapping in
> the valves)...
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71474 is a reply to message #71469] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 19:52 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| GMCWiperMan wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 19:03 |
Matt, or someone,
Can you explain the unexpected comment I found in the Cadillac 500 manual at
the end of the section on valve reconditioning?: "Lapping is not
recommended."
I'd always considered lapping to be the final, ultimate, step in a top
quality valve job. Unnecessary most of the time with modern equipment, yes,
but still a nice final touch. Polished off with seeing whether rotating the
valve on its seat would erase pencil marks. What's changed?
Ken H.
|
All of the heads that I have done over the years, I have *never* Lapped-in the valves. When I worked at the Hot Rod shop, the chief Mechanic said lapping was not necessary, as they will pound themselves into a seal in the first couple of minutes of running anyway...so I've never done it...never had a problem. But then I grind a 3 angle seat, using toping and bottoming to get a 1/8" wide seat that contacts the valve at the upper 2/3rds of the valve face. Use Blueing ink on the valve to see where it is contacting. JWID
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
|
|
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cad 500 and dash heater [message #71482 is a reply to message #71474] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 21:02 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks, Larry. I really hadn't thought about lapping for a long time until
I saw that note and then it struck me as strange.
Say, I never heard you say: could you tell any difference in your steering
after our minor toe adjustments?
Ken H.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:
>
>
> GMCWiperMan wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 19:03
> > Matt, or someone,
> >
> > Can you explain the unexpected comment I found in the Cadillac 500 manual
> at
> > the end of the section on valve reconditioning?: "Lapping is not
> > recommended."
> >
> > I'd always considered lapping to be the final, ultimate, step in a top
> > quality valve job. Unnecessary most of the time with modern equipment,
> yes,
> > but still a nice final touch. Polished off with seeing whether rotating
> the
> > valve on its seat would erase pencil marks. What's changed?
> >
> > Ken H.
>
> All of the heads that I have done over the years, I have *never* Lapped-in
> the valves. When I worked at the Hot Rod shop, the chief Mechanic said
> lapping was not necessary, as they will pound themselves into a seal in the
> first couple of minutes of running anyway...so I've never done it...never
> had a problem. But then I grind a 3 angle seat, using toping and bottoming
> to get a 1/8" wide seat that contacts the valve at the upper 2/3rds of the
> valve face. Use Blueing ink on the valve to see where it is contacting.
> JWID
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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