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| Non Dually Wheels [message #71066] |
Sun, 17 January 2010 18:34  |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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Folks, I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of lug nuts sticking out from the side of my coach wheels like spikes on the chariot from Ben Hur as they do with the Alcoa's.
That said, I ocasionally see a photo of a coach with non-dually rims, like this one on Dan and Teri's blog:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rksxS4R9Sac/S0rDb-f3j-I/AAAAAAAAGZE/lyywsRxmdIo/s1600-h/4195546955_9e13dca635_o.jpg
or
http://tinyurl.com/yajzqw4
Have any of you out there who are using rims with a different offset than a dually experienced any bearing issues or any other issues?
Can you upload photos?
How about added torque steer on the fronts? FWD vehicles usually have positive offset rims, like the dually rims, to reduce Torque steer.
I have added negative offset rims to two modern pickups which came with less offset, and the steering became lighter (especially on my non power steering 1987 Mitsubishi pickup) but I was always warned about bearing failure which never came.
I would think going negative on the offset, pushing the wheel outward would be similar to adding wheel spacers.
I was never a fan of Five slot mags like the ones on the photo, even in the 70's. but I have to admit, they do look cool on the GMC.
Comments?
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non Dually Wheels [message #71264 is a reply to message #71066] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 10:01  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Chris Choffat <cchoffataz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Folks, I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of lug nuts sticking out from the side of my coach wheels like spikes on the chariot from Ben Hur as they do with the Alcoa's.
>
> That said, I ocasionally see a photo of a coach with non-dually rims, like this one on Dan and Teri's blog:
>
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rksxS4R9Sac/S0rDb-f3j-I/AAAAAAAAGZE/lyywsRxmdIo/s1600-h/4195546955_9e13dca635_o.jpg
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yajzqw4
>
> Have any of you out there who are using rims with a different offset than a dually experienced any bearing issues or any other issues?
>
> Can you upload photos?
>
> How about added torque steer on the fronts? FWD vehicles usually have positive offset rims, like the dually rims, to reduce Torque steer.
>
> I have added negative offset rims to two modern pickups which came with less offset, and the steering became lighter (especially on my non power steering 1987 Mitsubishi pickup) but I was always warned about bearing failure which never came.
>
> I would think going negative on the offset, pushing the wheel outward would be similar to adding wheel spacers.
>
> I was never a fan of Five slot mags like the ones on the photo, even in the 70's. but I have to admit, they do look cool on the GMC.
>
> Comments?
>
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD U S S Kobiashi Maru: The Engineer's Motorhome
> S T I L L - U N D E R - C O N S T R U C T I O N
> Scottsdale, AZ
> Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non Dually Wheels [message #71296 is a reply to message #71264] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 14:44 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Jim, there was nothing in your post???
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non Dually Wheels [message #71311 is a reply to message #71302] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 16:33 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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I was going to say something, but forgot what I was going to say.
Then I must have pushed send thinking I put down something.
I was thinking that the tracking difference will be the same.
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Kingsley Coach <kingsleygmc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris
> Give the man a break...he was thinking to himself ! <VBG>
> Mike in NS
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Chris Choffat <cchoffataz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Jim, there was nothing in your post???
>> --
>> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
>> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD U S S Kobiashi Maru: The
>> Engineer's Motorhome
>> S T I L L - U N D E R - C O N S T R U C T I O N
>> Scottsdale, AZ
>> Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> Antigonish, NS
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non Dually Wheels [message #71318 is a reply to message #71313] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 17:16 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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it would make the coach look like a lowrider!!!
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non Dually Wheels [message #71320 is a reply to message #71313] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 17:15 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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David H. Jarvis writes...
> What would happen if..you put the front wheels on inside out?
> It would eliminate the need for spacers. But would it make the front tread too wide?
We explored this idea a little while ago. These wheels have a 4"
offset, so turning it around will add between 7-8 inches (two times
the offset less the thickness of the mounting flange). I suspect
that's about two or three times what is needed, even assuming they
would fit under the wheel well openings,, which they would not.
Rick "who doesn't mind that the front track is a bit narrower" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non Dually Wheels [message #71338 is a reply to message #71321] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 19:44 |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
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Sure wish that drawing had the centerline and amount of offset. Looks like it must be nearly 5 inches.
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non Dually Wheels [message #71343 is a reply to message #71338] |
Wed, 20 January 2010 20:01 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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Don Adams writes...
> Sure wish that drawing had the centerline and amount of offset.
> Looks like it must be nearly 5 inches.
The stated offset for the Eagle wheels is 105mm (4-1/8"). I'm sure the
Alcoas are very similar--both are designed for dually applications
where the wheels will be installed face to face.
Rick "measured, I'm sure, from the centerline to the hub face" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: Non Dually Wheels [message #71392 is a reply to message #71066] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 09:32 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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| Chr$ wrote on Sun, 17 January 2010 19:34 |
Folks,Have any of you out there who are using rims with a different offset than a dually experienced any bearing issues or any other issues?
Can you upload photos?
Comments?
|
Chr$: back in the day when I was running the stock 16.5 steel dually wheels I was having rut running isues. I went to the man mall and found (2) 16.5 8 lug 3/4 ton style straight wheels without the offset that had good tires on them. I installed them on the front with the tapered style lug nuts that I got with the wheels. This alligned the front wheels almost perfect with the rear wheels and since I was running the hubcaps you could not tell the wheels were different by looking. This change did make a difference in the way my coach handled. The rut running was noticably better, but there was noticable torque steer and making 90* turns from an uphill intersection had a tendancy to break the tire loose. I thought I had found the "holy grail" for all GMC owners. I ran this set up for a while with the tires from the junk yard {ragwalls) and was happier than running the stock offset wheels with the all steel Goodyear 159s even with the quirks. I was not to worried about a spare since I have AAA RV and could swap a tire on a wheel if I had to. (I did try running one on the front just to see how it would handle if I had a flat, don`t do that... It drives very squirrly and irratic...). So later on when I had a chance to get a set of 16" aluminum wheels I got a set of Dunlop ragwall tires and installed them thinking I would have to find spacers to get my tracking alligned to correct my previous issue of rut running. BUT.. no rut running without spacers?? It had to be the all steel tires.. Again I was not sure so I borrowed a set of front wheel spacers and put them behind the front aluminum wheels and went on a trip pulling a trailer. The coach drove 2 finger perfect on the big road, but again torque steer and tires breaking loose on hard turns on a hill. I removed the spacers and am back to stock type configeration with no rut running.
While all this was going on I did find some up and down play in my steering relay lever and replaced it. Replacing the relay lever and using ragwall tires seems to have cured most all of my rut running.
Hope this helps.....
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Non Dually Wheels [message #71397 is a reply to message #71392] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 10:14 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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So You ran straight wheels in the front and that was ok (except the turn-in torque steer) but they were squirrly on the back? Didn't quite get that. Wasn't sure if you meant put one on the back where you said front (where they already were???)
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Non Dually Wheels [message #71403 is a reply to message #71397] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 10:52 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| Chr$ wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 11:14 |
So You ran straight wheels in the front and that was ok (except the turn-in torque steer) but they were squirrly on the back? Didn't quite get that. Wasn't sure if you meant put one on the back where you said front (where they already were???)
|
Chr$: I ran the straight wheels (with ragwalls) only on the front. Rears were always stock dually 16.5 with Goodyear 159s. The squirrly was when I removed one straight wheel off the front and put a stock dually wheel on, which mismatched the front wheels (one straight with ragwall and one dually with all steel tire), just to see if I could put the spare 16.5 stock dually wheel on in case I had a flat on the front and had to drive it somewhere. It was very tricky to handle with one straight and one offset wheel on the front.
I believe having straight wheels with ragwalls on the front was better than the dually wheels with all steel tires, even with the quirks. I also noticed that when driving with either spacers on the dually wheels or using the straight wheels (all wheels alligned) that there was less wiggle when getting passed by a bigtruck. While the coach does drive on the big road better with the wheels alligned it does torque steer when gassing on it (passing or going up a hill) even going straight down the road. It also has more of a tendancy to loose traction when getting in and out of the driveway and at some Rally locations.
I think I have some pics stashed on my laptop, I`ll check and post..
I hope I haven`t confused you more??
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non Dually Wheels [message #71404 is a reply to message #71392] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 11:02 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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If you do the bearings corectly, there is not going to be a problem with it.
Most of you do not realize the importance of the knuckle clearance.
DaveL and I agree that without the correct knuckle clearance, the cup
of the bearing set will beat the knuckle and it will get loose and the
grease will leak past the knuckle and then you'll blame the bearing
that might have been made in Japan.
The knuckle clearance is not a clearance, but an interferance fit.I
learned this trick 25 years ago.The standard new knuckls has the
sloppy clearance and will need to be replaced after 20-30K miles.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Charles Boyd <covered-wagon@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Chr$ wrote on Sun, 17 January 2010 19:34
>> Folks,Have any of you out there who are using rims with a different offset than a dually experienced any bearing issues or any other issues?
>>
>> Can you upload photos?
>>
>> Comments?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Chr$: back in the day when I was running the stock 16.5 steel dually wheels I was having rut running isues. I went to the man mall and found (2) 16.5 8 lug 3/4 ton style straight wheels without the offset that had good tires on them. I installed them on the front with the tapered style lug nuts that I got with the wheels. This alligned the front wheels almost perfect with the rear wheels and since I was running the hubcaps you could not tell the wheels were different by looking. This change did make a difference in the way my coach handled. The rut running was noticably better, but there was noticable torque steer and making 90* turns from an uphill intersection had a tendancy to break the tire loose. I thought I had found the "holy grail" for all GMC owners. I ran this set up for a while with the tires from the junk yard {ragwalls) and was happier than running the stock offset wheels with the all steel Goodyear 159s even with the quirks. I was not to worried about a
> spare since I have AAA RV and could swap a tire on a wheel if I had to. (I did try running one on the front just to see how it would handle if I had a flat, don`t do that... It drives very squirrly and irratic...). So later on when I had a chance to get a set of 16" aluminum wheels I got a set of Dunlop ragwall tires and installed them thinking I would have to find spacers to get my tracking alligned to correct my previous issue of rut running. BUT.. no rut running without spacers?? It had to be the all steel tires.. Again I was not sure so I borrowed a set of front wheel spacers and put them behind the front aluminum wheels and went on a trip pulling a trailer. The coach drove 2 finger perfect on the big road, but again torque steer and tires breaking loose on hard turns on a hill. I removed the spacers and am back to stock type configeration with no rut running.
>
> While all this was going on I did find some up and down play in my steering relay lever and replaced it. Replacing the relay lever and using ragwall tires seems to have cured most all of my rut running.
>
> Hope this helps.....
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont by Midas
> East Tennessee
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Non Dually Wheels [message #71405 is a reply to message #71403] |
Thu, 21 January 2010 11:31 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
|
Senior Member |
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| C Boyd wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 11:52 |
| Chr$ wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 11:14 |
So You ran straight wheels in the front and that was ok (except the turn-in torque steer) but they were squirrly on the back? Didn't quite get that. Wasn't sure if you meant put one on the back where you said front (where they already were???)
|
Chr$: I ran the straight wheels (with ragwalls) only on the front. Rears were always stock dually 16.5 with Goodyear 159s. The squirrly was when I removed one straight wheel off the front and put a stock dually wheel on, which mismatched the front wheels (one straight with ragwall and one dually with all steel tire), just to see if I could put the spare 16.5 stock dually wheel on in case I had a flat on the front and had to drive it somewhere. It was very tricky to handle with one straight and one offset wheel on the front.
I believe having straight wheels with ragwalls on the front was better than the dually wheels with all steel tires, even with the quirks. I also noticed that when driving with either spacers on the dually wheels or using the straight wheels (all wheels alligned) that there was less wiggle when getting passed by a bigtruck. While the coach does drive on the big road better with the wheels alligned it does torque steer when gassing on it (passing or going up a hill) even going straight down the road. It also has more of a tendancy to loose traction when getting in and out of the driveway and at some Rally locations.
I think I have some pics stashed on my laptop, I`ll check and post..
I hope I haven`t confused you more??
|
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5392
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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