Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Dan's Brakes?? Did I miss something?
| Dan's Brakes?? Did I miss something? [message #69357] |
Sat, 02 January 2010 16:12  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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I have been digging through the recent threads and it sounds like Dan is on his way or at Quartzsite.
If that is correct, I'm guessing he has brakes.
Did anybody say what the problem was?
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Dan's Brakes?? Did I miss something? [message #69444 is a reply to message #69366] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 10:40  |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""Dan is in Duncan, AZ today. Bob D. and Dan are suppose to be working on Dan's coach today.
Ken B. ""
We got it fixed yesterday. The main problem was the master cylinder. We also adjusted the rear brakes and repaired a leaking brake line. He had no rear brakes. It was fun and I got to meet another great GMC owner!! That coach has good brakes!!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| bad master [message #69448 is a reply to message #69444] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 10:52 |
bukzin
Messages: 840
Registered: April 2004
Location: North California
Karma: 0
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So Bob,
How did you figure out it was the master cylinder?
Was his an original unit?
Which replacement did you install?
Was it tricky to bleed all the air out of the system?
Thanks in advance,
Bukzin
1977 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dan's Brakes?? Did I miss something? [message #69450 is a reply to message #69444] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 10:49 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Bob,
Great of you to help Dan and Teri -- Thank you.
Please tell us how you determined it was a master cylinder problem.
Dennis
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sun, Jan 3, 2010 10:40 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dan's Brakes?? Did I miss something?
""Dan is in Duncan, AZ today. Bob D. and Dan are suppose to be working on Dan's
oach today.
Ken B. ""
We got it fixed yesterday. The main problem was the master cylinder. We also
djusted the rear brakes and repaired a leaking brake line. He had no rear
rakes. It was fun and I got to meet another great GMC owner!! That coach has
ood brakes!!
-
ob de Kruyff
8 Eleganza
handler, AZ
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MCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: bad master [message #69515 is a reply to message #69448] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 18:11 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""So Bob,
How did you figure out it was the master cylinder?
Was his an original unit?
Which replacement did you install?
Was it tricky to bleed all the air out of the system?
Thanks in advance, ""
It wasn't all that scientific, but a bit of past experience and a matter of elinination. I've just learned in the past what a failed "half" system feels like in a dual system. You can feel when a piston bottoms out before the remaining one which has the ability to generate pressure takes over. This was not an original M/C. I didn't know if it was front or back at first, but suspected the back since a failed front system is even less effective--ie no brakes to speak of. So, we checked the fluid levels and both reservoirs were full. We jacked up the rear and the wheels spun freely. That left only the M/C as the culpret. We did have a slight leak but that was secondary to the overall problem. Even if the rears are way out of adjustment, you shouldn't be able to spin them with the pedal floored. As far as bleeding, the M/C comes with a hose and plastic fittings to "bench bleed" the unit before insatlling it. Well that isn't always an option, so you can mount the unit on the coach and bleed the M/C with the hose and pump the pedal untill no more bubbles exist. The just reconnect the front and rear lines and you should be OK without any further bleeding since no air to speak of gets in the lines. We had a bit of difficulty with a rear line so we did bleed the system all the way back to that particular wheel. On a stock system it really is painless. I got a Autozone unit for a 1974 C30 Chevy pickup--$16.00 I was a bit surprised that none of the GMC International interchange numbers were in stock.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69521 is a reply to message #69515] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 18:42 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
SIXTEEN DOLLARS?
Hoolee Doolee!
Was that exchange?
What's the Autozone Part Number, I'm sure EVERYONE with a stock system would
like to have it!
Plus Bdub can put it on the GMC parts interchange.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob de Kruyff
Sent: Monday, 4 January 2010 11:12 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bad master
I got a Autozone unit for a 1974 C30 Chevy pickup--$16.00 I was a bit
surprised that none of the GMC International interchange numbers were in
stock.
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69524 is a reply to message #69515] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 19:17 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
I hope this doesn't sound like quibbling, but I wanna know: Why did you
(apparently from the cost) choose the M-1730 which is brake code JB7, for an
8000# vehicle, instead of the M-1584, brake code JB8, for a 10,000# vehicle?
Certainly not the $3.00 cheaper price. "Just 'cause that's what they
had..." is an acceptable answer since it worked. :-)
Ken H.
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
> ... I got a Autozone unit for a 1974 C30 Chevy pickup--$16.00 I was a bit
> surprised that none of the GMC International interchange numbers were in
> stock.
> --
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69533 is a reply to message #69524] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 20:30 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Bob,
I hope this doesn't sound like quibbling, but I wanna know: Why did you
(apparently from the cost) choose the M-1730 which is brake code JB7, for an
8000# vehicle, instead of the M-1584, brake code JB8, for a 10,000# vehicle?
Certainly not the $3.00 cheaper price. "Just 'cause that's what they
had..." is an acceptable answer since it worked. :-)""
It's all that we could find in stock and we had to do what we had to do. I was disappointed that unlike a few years ago, non of the interchange numbers worked. I felt we needed something to relieve the situation and Dan gave me an open book on cost. I was shocked what the final price was !!Given all that and all of the diatribe that goes on here, this coach has astounding brakes in stock configuration. I never had a chance to drive it before this incident but I suspect many folks would love to have this level of performance with heavily modified systems !
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69536 is a reply to message #69524] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 20:37 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Bob,
I hope this doesn't sound like quibbling, but I wanna know: Why did you
(apparently from the cost) choose the M-1730 which is brake code JB7, for an
8000# vehicle, instead of the M-1584, brake code JB8, for a 10,000# vehicle?
Certainly not the $3.00 cheaper price. "Just 'cause that's what they""
Ken--I wanted to add that about 10 years ago my master cylinder failed on I75 on Memorial day weekend. I literally had no brakes and it was an emergency. I stayed overnight at a Walmart in beautiful Dayton. Luckily there was a Pep Boys across the street and I walked my tired old M/C over to the counter. An amazing older female counter person plopped one on the counter--I installed it and it is still working perfectly. I guess the moral is that we can't get too pure on some of this stuff and some of the things we tend to fret and argue about here is relatively meaningless.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69540 is a reply to message #69533] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 20:45 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks, Bob, I kinda figured that might be the case -- I did the same thing
when we picked up the X-PB in TN a few years ago; it's still working fine 3+
years later.
Did you happen to measure the bore? If it's smaller, that might account for
the outstanding brakes. Of course, it would also be a reason for Dan to
keep a closer-than-usual watch on the brake fluid level.
By the way, that X-PB is another of those shouldn't-but-does-drive-great
GMC's. It had been setting in TN for 5+ years when we stuck the X-Birch's
front clip under it one day and headed for GA. We used the X-Birch's Alcoas
& good tires without even checking the tire pressures -- may have had one 50
psi rear on one front and a 65 psi front on the other, for all I know. Made
no attempt to do anything to wheel alignment, front or rear, swapping 23'
clip into a 26'. In fact, we used the 23's torsion bars. I drove it 300
miles home almost hands off -- much nicer than the X-Birch was before giving
up its 100+k mile frame clip.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> ""Bob,
>
> I hope this doesn't sound like quibbling, but I wanna know: Why did you
> (apparently from the cost) choose the M-1730 which is brake code JB7, for
> an
> 8000# vehicle, instead of the M-1584, brake code JB8, for a 10,000#
> vehicle?
> Certainly not the $3.00 cheaper price. "Just 'cause that's what they
> had..." is an acceptable answer since it worked. :-)""
>
> It's all that we could find in stock and we had to do what we had to do. I
> was disappointed that unlike a few years ago, non of the interchange numbers
> worked. I felt we needed something to relieve the situation and Dan gave me
> an open book on cost. I was shocked what the final price was !!Given all
> that and all of the diatribe that goes on here, this coach has astounding
> brakes in stock configuration. I never had a chance to drive it before this
> incident but I suspect many folks would love to have this level of
> performance with heavily modified systems !
>
> --
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69542 is a reply to message #69540] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 20:57 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Did you happen to measure the bore? If it's smaller, that might account for
the outstanding brakes. Of course, it would also be a reason for Dan to
keep a closer-than-usual watch on the brake fluid level.""
I'm not sure how you would do that, but it's an interesting question. Whatever was on the coach before also apparently had excellent braking per Dan. Mine is also totally stock and has good brakes but possibly not quite as stong as Dan's.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69658 is a reply to message #69524] |
Mon, 04 January 2010 22:18 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""I hope this doesn't sound like quibbling, but I wanna know: Why did you
(apparently from the cost) choose the M-1730 which is brake code JB7, for an
8000# vehicle, instead of the M-1584, brake code JB8, for a 10,000# vehicle?
Certainly not the $3.00 cheaper price. "Just 'cause that's what they
had..." is an acceptable answer since it worked. :-)""
Now you do have my curiosity up--and mostly from the standpoint of getting on the same page--but what characteristics of the 1584 would make it a better choice for our coaches than the 1730?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69662 is a reply to message #69658] |
Mon, 04 January 2010 22:33 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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THAT's what I was hoping you'd tell me. :-)
To me, one of the most frustrating data deficiencies related to the GMC is
the almost total absence of generally available specifications for brake
components. Why should we have to guess, or measure for ourselves the bore,
stroke, mounting dimensions, length, etc., etc. for all these things? But
we do.
As a WAG, which you could do better than I, based on experience, I'd guess
that the 1584, and the other cylinders on the 10,000# truck, have larger
bores, all around. Which would make the 1584 LESS suitable for a
standard-braked GMC.
I'd sure like to KNOW for a change.
Ken H.
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> ""I hope this doesn't sound like quibbling, but I wanna know: Why did you
> (apparently from the cost) choose the M-1730 which is brake code JB7, for
> an
> 8000# vehicle, instead of the M-1584, brake code JB8, for a 10,000#
> vehicle?
> Certainly not the $3.00 cheaper price. "Just 'cause that's what they
> had..." is an acceptable answer since it worked. :-)""
>
> Now you do have my curiosity up--and mostly from the standpoint of getting
> on the same page--but what characteristics of the 1584 would make it a
> better choice for our coaches than the 1730?
>
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] bad master [message #69663 is a reply to message #69662] |
Mon, 04 January 2010 22:49 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""THAT's what I was hoping you'd tell me. 
To me, one of the most frustrating data deficiencies related to the GMC is
the almost total absence of generally available specifications for brake
components. Why should we have to guess, or measure for ourselves the bore,
stroke, mounting dimensions, length, etc., etc. for all these things? But
we do.
As a WAG, which you could do better than I, based on experience, I'd guess
that the 1584, and the other cylinders on the 10,000# truck, have larger
bores, all around. Which would make the 1584 LESS suitable for a
standard-braked GMC.
I'd sure like to KNOW for a change.""
Yup--I'm not sure I have the answer but let's talk it through. In this case it's the old volume vs pressure tradeoff. The 1730 has a smaller bore than the 1784. My perception is that the stock GMC system is more pressure/effort disadvantaged than volume disadvantaged. Generally the front disks self adjust so we don't need much volume to engage unless they have loose wheel bearings or rotor run out. The rears are the ones that could use a fair amount of volume if not adjusted correctly. The front ones are the difficult ones to lock up, while the rears usually can be. That leads me in the direction of the 1730. Also, the application stats and any reference to GVW are system based-and also factor in vacuum and hydroboost sytems, so it may not really reflect whay the M/C is capable of. Wadyathink?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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