Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle
| [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68644] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 13:24  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
Here's the response I got from Viair regarding duty cycle.
I'd say Sean should move to Washington and take up a career in POLITICS!
I'll try AGAIN!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Tech Support [mailto:techsupport@viaircorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2009 5:14 AM
To: 'Rob Mueller'
Subject: RE: Duty Cycle
Rob,
Duty cycle refers to the amount of time that a compressor can be run in a
given time period. It is based on a specific PSI and temperature rating.
There are a few other variables in the equation. The duty cycle rating, as
listed, is purely for reference because of the variables that can affect it.
Thank you,
Sean Hughes
Technical Support
Viair Corporation
t: 949-585-0011 X101
f: 949-585-0188
e. seanh@viaircorp.com
web: www.viaircorp.com
videos: www.youtube.com/user/VIAIRVitalAirSource
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:44 PM
To: techsupport@viaircorp.com
Subject: Duty Cycle
Hi,
Please advise what the Duty Cycle means. I see that the smaller units are
9% and 25% @ 100 psi where as the larger units are 100% at 100 psi. Could
you please explain what Duty Cycle means?
I checked your FAQs but found no info.
Thanks,
Rob Mueller
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68648 is a reply to message #68644] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 13:37  |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Man! Have you ever got that right! A politician if ever there was one!
I think I'd address my follow up to "Anyone BUT Sean".
Ken H.
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> Here's the response I got from Viair regarding duty cycle.
>
> I'd say Sean should move to Washington and take up a career in POLITICS!
>
> I'll try AGAIN!
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech Support [mailto:techsupport@viaircorp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2009 5:14 AM
> To: 'Rob Mueller'
> Subject: RE: Duty Cycle
>
> Rob,
>
> Duty cycle refers to the amount of time that a compressor can be run in a
> given time period. It is based on a specific PSI and temperature rating.
> There are a few other variables in the equation. The duty cycle rating, as
> listed, is purely for reference because of the variables that can affect
> it.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sean Hughes
> Technical Support
> Viair Corporation
> t: 949-585-0011 X101
> f: 949-585-0188
> e. seanh@viaircorp.com
> web: www.viaircorp.com
> videos: www.youtube.com/user/VIAIRVitalAirSource
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68661 is a reply to message #68644] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 16:18 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I hate nothing answers like that. maybe we have to coax him to answer the question we need, like, how long will the thing run before overheating?
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68667 is a reply to message #68661] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 16:42 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Chris,
I am used to answers like that, I was a Field Rep for Hamilton Standard for
thirty years and guys at the factory would send me non-responses like that.
Usually we'd go back and forth and finally they'd give up and provide a REAL
response!
I've already sent the following note to Sean:
Quote:
Sean,
Thank you for your prompt response.
I am thinking of buying a 275C with a 25% duty cycle for my GMC motorhome
rear suspension.
It has an air tank that has a volume of approximately 2 gallons and two air
bags (one on each side) that are about 2 gallons in volume each also that
need to be pumped from 0 to around 100 psi.
Can I run the 275C long enough to fill this system?
To put it another way how long can I run the 275C before I need to shut it
down and how long will I have to leave it off to cool down?
Thanks,
Rob Mueller
Unquote
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Choffat
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2009 9:19 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle
I hate nothing answers like that. maybe we have to coax him to answer the
question we need, like, how long will the thing run before overheating?
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD The Engineer's Motorhome
S T I L L - U N D E R - C O N S T R U C T I O N
Scottsdale, AZ
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68672 is a reply to message #68644] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 17:26 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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well, to be fair to the guy, there really isn't a straight up answer. the compressor can run a lot longer at 20 PSI than it can at 120 PSI. so for him to say it can run 2 min. in 5 must also include the pressure but that increases as it runs.
i think the main point here is that for our application we should be buying a 100% duty cycle compressor. this has been stated numerous times in the replies to this thread. i would never buy the unit in question; waste of hard earned money.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68733 is a reply to message #68644] |
Tue, 29 December 2009 09:39 |
cboutellzs3
Messages: 6
Registered: February 2008
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As much as I dislike politicians I wouldn't want to put Sean in that category. His answer is frustrating, but correct. The things that affect duty cycle that are user controlled are many, including battery voltage, the continuing psi requirements of the load, the ambient temperature and airflow around the compressor as well as others. The designer can control motor efficiency, motor heat transfer, cylinder heat transfer and various friction losses and others, but none of the user variables.
I think Viair should do a better job at defining the variables and their effect on duty cycle so the answer is less frustrating.
The answer is to choose 100% duty cycle, specially with most GMC air systems.
Having said that, I think I'll go use my Sears Shop Vac which is a 6.5 HP device running on a 15 amp 120 volt line. A simple, easy to compare rating which is dead wrong and totally misleading.
Regards,
Chuck Boutell
former 75 Avion owner, but still a GMC nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:24:51 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle
G'day,
Here's the response I got from Viair regarding duty cycle.
I'd say Sean should move to Washington and take up a career in POLITICS!
I'll try AGAIN!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Tech Support [mailto:techsupport@viaircorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2009 5:14 AM
To: 'Rob Mueller'
Subject: RE: Duty Cycle
Rob,
Duty cycle refers to the amount of time that a compressor can be run in a
given time period. It is based on a specific PSI and temperature rating.
There are a few other variables in the equation. The duty cycle rating, as
listed, is purely for reference because of the variables that can affect it.
Thank you,
Sean Hughes
Technical Support
Viair Corporation
t: 949-585-0011 X101
f: 949-585-0188
e. seanh@viaircorp.com
web: www.viaircorp.com
videos: www.youtube.com/user/VIAIRVitalAirSource
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:44 PM
To: techsupport@viaircorp.com
Subject: Duty Cycle
Hi,
Please advise what the “Duty Cycle” means. I see that the smaller units are
9% and 25% @ 100 psi where as the larger units are 100% at 100 psi. Could
you please explain what “Duty Cycle” means?
I checked your FAQ’s but found no info.
Thanks,
Rob Mueller
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68755 is a reply to message #68733] |
Tue, 29 December 2009 11:51 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I did & still would describe Sean's answer as politician-like. My problem
with his answer is that he was asked a question about the specific numbers
Viair publishes without providing any of the standards against which those
numbers must be applied to make them meaningful. His answer did not address
those numbers at all but rather offered what can, therefore, best be
described as platitudes, correct or not. Typical for politicians. :-(
What is so "dead wrong and totally misleading" about pulling 40A from a 15A
circuit? The politicians are certainly doing the equivalent with their
budgets and our taxability.
Ken H.
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 10:39 AM, <cboutellzs3@comcast.net> wrote:
> As much as I dislike politicians I wouldn't want to put Sean in that
> category. His answer is frustrating, but correct. The things that affect
> duty cycle that are user controlled are many, including battery voltage, the
> continuing psi requirements of the load, the ambient temperature and airflow
> around the compressor as well as others. The designer can control motor
> efficiency, motor heat transfer, cylinder heat transfer and various friction
> losses and others, but none of the user variables.
>
>
> I think Viair should do a better job at defining the variables and their
> effect on duty cycle so the answer is less frustrating.
>
>
> The answer is to choose 100% duty cycle, specially with most GMC air
> systems.
>
>
> Having said that, I think I'll go use my Sears Shop Vac which is a 6.5 HP
> device running on a 15 amp 120 volt line. A simple, easy to compare rating
> which is dead wrong and totally misleading.
>
>
> Regards,
> Chuck Boutell
> former 75 Avion owner, but still a GMC nut
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68864 is a reply to message #68733] |
Wed, 30 December 2009 06:50 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Yes, Viar's explaination may be frustrating but it's that way about a pile of things-- the harder you try and nail down a definition the more complicated it gets! The best advice is in this post, get a 100% duty cycle unit and you have done the best on that part of the issue. Now the challenge is to effect those other factors in a positive way. there are things you can do to help the compressor do it's job. Getting it a good strong power source is a really good one, and a good ground. There are upgrade circuits for the Power Level and Electro-Level systems that can help this. Another one is to do all you can to stop leaks. Continual cycling goes a long way to keeping the compressor from working too hard.
Here are 2 suggestions on the power supply issue:
1-- Power Level systems-- route a new 8 ga. wire fused at the source to a relay then on to the compressor. Control the relay by the old ignition power from the coach making sure the regulator is in the circuit. This will give the compressor the best possible current path to the battery and take the current to the compressor from the ignition circuit which is a good thing. this will also route the high current for the compressor away from that dreaded "fuse link" a thread recently talked about.
2-- Electro-Level systems-- There was a GM update on this, take the power from the relay used to route power to the compressor and pick it up in the compartment just above at the living area fuse panel. Fuse it there, this will take the current used to run the compressor from that long run small gauge wire going to the front fuse block through the ignition switch and route it directly to the living area electrical system and that battery. Yes, you must have a good living area battery to run the compressor but in doing this you will be feeding the compressor with much more current capability
Both of these mods will help the compressor run stronger, cooler and more effective.
I also replace the old square D regulator (80 on 120 off) with a new fixed regulator (110 on 145 off). The new compressor has no problem with these pressures and boy does the coach go up so much faster.
Things I do to help,
Jim Bounds
----------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: "cboutellzs3@comcast.net" <cboutellzs3@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Cc: cboutell1@comcast.net
Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 10:39:49 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle
As much as I dislike politicians I wouldn't want to put Sean in that category. His answer is frustrating, but correct. The things that affect duty cycle that are user controlled are many, including battery voltage, the continuing psi requirements of the load, the ambient temperature and airflow around the compressor as well as others. The designer can control motor efficiency, motor heat transfer, cylinder heat transfer and various friction losses and others, but none of the user variables.
I think Viair should do a better job at defining the variables and their effect on duty cycle so the answer is less frustrating.
The answer is to choose 100% duty cycle, specially with most GMC air systems.
Having said that, I think I'll go use my Sears Shop Vac which is a 6.5 HP device running on a 15 amp 120 volt line. A simple, easy to compare rating which is dead wrong and totally misleading.
Regards,
Chuck Boutell
former 75 Avion owner, but still a GMC nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:24:51 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle
G'day,
Here's the response I got from Viair regarding duty cycle.
I'd say Sean should move to Washington and take up a career in POLITICS!
I'll try AGAIN!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Tech Support [mailto:techsupport@viaircorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2009 5:14 AM
To: 'Rob Mueller'
Subject: RE: Duty Cycle
Rob,
Duty cycle refers to the amount of time that a compressor can be run in a
given time period. It is based on a specific PSI and temperature rating.
There are a few other variables in the equation. The duty cycle rating, as
listed, is purely for reference because of the variables that can affect it.
Thank you,
Sean Hughes
Technical Support
Viair Corporation
t: 949-585-0011 X101
f: 949-585-0188
e. seanh@viaircorp.com
web: www.viaircorp.com
videos: www.youtube.com/user/VIAIRVitalAirSource
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:44 PM
To: techsupport@viaircorp.com
Subject: Duty Cycle
Hi,
Please advise what the “Duty Cycle” means. I see that the smaller units are
9% and 25% @ 100 psi where as the larger units are 100% at 100 psi. Could
you please explain what “Duty Cycle” means?
I checked your FAQ’s but found no info.
Thanks,
Rob Mueller
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68870 is a reply to message #68864] |
Wed, 30 December 2009 07:53 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""2-- Electro-Level systems-- There was a GM update on this, take the power from the relay used to route power to the compressor and pick it up in the compartment just above at the living area fuse panel. Fuse it there, this will take the current used to run the compressor from that long run small gauge wire going to the front fuse block through the ignition switch and route it directly to the living area electrical system and that battery. Yes, you must have a good living area battery to run the compressor but in doing this you will be feeding the compressor with much more current capability""
Here's a description of that mod:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4153
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68878 is a reply to message #68672] |
Wed, 30 December 2009 09:32 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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well, to be fair to the guy, there really isn't a straight up answer
Duty cycle refers to the amount of time that a compressor can be run in a given time period. It is based on a specific PSI and temperature rating.
There are a few other variables in the equation. The duty cycle rating, as listed, is purely for reference because of the variables that can affect it.
___________________________________________________________
Actually guys, I think he did answer the question.
First, he told you how the Duty Cycle is determined.
Since we need a 100% or very near Duty Cycle, He has told you this compressor is not what we want.
He also said there are no other variables but specific PSI, and Temperature ratings.
There is no specific number as one influences the other and they are both variables.
LarC ( Having worked with a bunch of people whose first language was ( BS ) and learned to read between the lines. )
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68879 is a reply to message #68868] |
Wed, 30 December 2009 09:39 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Does cranking down on the adjustment nut on the regulator accomplish the same thing? I have mine set at 105 on 135 off.
___________________________________________________________
I'm not Jim but...
The statement was " a reference between air PSI and Temperature."
The higher the air PSI, the more the air is compressed and the biproduct of pressure is heat.
Adjusting the regulator down to a lower PSI limits the Temp Range.
I think this adjustment would give you limited increase in duty cycle as the temp will still be up there.
LarC ( Thinking a 100% DC Compressor can take a beating but a limited dc Compressor will not survive long )
Gatsbys' CRUISER 08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68889 is a reply to message #68864] |
Wed, 30 December 2009 10:25 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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[quote
I also replace the old square D regulator (80 on 120 off) with a new fixed regulator (110 on 145 off). The new compressor has no problem with these pressures and boy does the coach go up so much faster.
Things I do to help,
Jim Bounds
----------------------------
quote]
my coach raises really slow too. i have the small air tank (16oz. beer size). i don't think increasing the pressure will speed up the raise time as the tank will drop to compressor pressure almost immediately. then you only have the +/- 1 CFM at 100 PSI.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68896 is a reply to message #68864] |
Wed, 30 December 2009 10:55 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| Jim Bounds wrote on Wed, 30 December 2009 04:50 |
Getting it a good strong power source is a really good one, and a good ground. There are upgrade circuits for the Power Level and Electro-Level systems that can help this.
Here are 2 suggestions on the power supply issue:
2-- Electro-Level systems-- There was a GM update on this, take the power from the relay used to route power to the compressor and pick it up in the compartment just above at the living area fuse panel. Fuse it there, this will take the current used to run the compressor from that long run small gauge wire going to the front fuse block through the ignition switch and route it directly to the living area electrical system and that battery. Yes, you must have a good living area battery to run the compressor but in doing this you will be feeding the compressor with much more current capability
Both of these mods will help the compressor run stronger, cooler and more effective.
Jim Bounds
|
If you are looking for the heavy wire to hook onto that comes from the coach batteries in many GMC's (and the one I think Jim is talking about) look here for photos.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3916
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Response from Viair re Duty Cycle [message #68937 is a reply to message #68878] |
Wed, 30 December 2009 17:53 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
Well I received another response from Viair. As you can see they've made a
recommendation but elected not to respond to the question in the last
sentence.
Quote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 2:28 PM
To: 'Tech Support'
Subject: RE: Duty Cycle
Sean,
Thank you for your prompt response.
I am thinking of buying a 275C with a 25% duty cycle for my GMC motorhome
rear suspension.
It has an air tank that has a volume of approximately 2 gallons and two air
bags (one on each side) that are about 2 gallons in volume each also that
need to be pumped from 0 to around 100 psi.
Can I run the 275C long enough to fill this system?
To put it another way how long can I run the 275C before I need to shut it
down and how long will I have to leave it off to cool down?
Thanks,
Rob Mueller
-----Original Message-----
From: Viair Tech Support [mailto:techsupport@viaircorp.com]
Sent: Thursday, 31 December 2009 3:46 AM
To: 'Rob Mueller'
Subject: RE: Duty Cycle
Rob,
Have you been helped to determine what your needs are, and what VIAIR unit
would be accomplish the task you have set for the compressor(s)? If not, I
would likely recommend you use a VIAIR 350C due to the increase in duty
cycle available with the 350C. You should not be able to defeat the duty
cycle of this unit regardless of temperature and other factors. Each time
you actual the air springs, you will deplete your air storage almost
completely. This means that every actuation of the air springs will mean a
complete cycle for the compressors. If the air springs are active
(controlled by weight) -then you may have a system that is constantly
running. This is best accomplished with a compressor with more duty cycle,
and/or a larger reservoir tank.
Thanks,
Lance Martz
Marketing Manager
VIAIR Corporation
tel: 949-585-0011
fax: 949-585-0188
email: lancem@viaircorp.com
In light of the response above I've gone back with:
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, 31 December 2009 10:50 AM
To: 'lancem@viaircorp.com'
Subject: RE: Duty Cycle
Lance,
Yes and no.
I appreciate your response and understand that a compressor with a 100% duty
cycle would work (obviously); however, I also wanted to know:
"How long can I run the 275C before I need to shut it down and how long will
I have to leave it off to cool down?"
Thanks,
Rob Mueller
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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