Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Trans Swap
| Trans Swap [message #68544] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 19:17  |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Folks, For those of you who have done an R&R on your tranny, a few questions:
1. Front wheels off the coach? (I assume yes)
2. Wheel well liners out (again assume yes?)
3. Best place to block up? Manny stated the cross member needs to be at least 24" off the ground to clear the tranny.
4. Carb Flange the best place to hoist the engine from? (seems to be)
5. Re-use the torque converter bolts or buy new? Bell housing bolts? I intend to use new on the FD attachment to the Tranny case.
6. What's teh 455 Weigh (for the come along capacity)
Any hard lessons learned?
For 3:21 Final drive:
1. Any issues with the RH shaft bracket or is it a direct bolt-on?
2. Recommended Gear oil (what the manual says or something better these days?)
Just trying to get my ducks in a row to have a smooth and efficient one-afternoon swap later this week.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap [message #68546 is a reply to message #68544] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 19:47  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Chris,
I will be installing a 3.21 into Double Trouble when I get back to the USA
next year.
I also have one here for The Blue Streak here in Australia.
I had Manny overhaul that one and he installed new seals. The OEM seal on
the right side is no longer available and the one he used has a larger ID
than the OEM. He pressed a sleeve over the half shaft. The one I have here
came out of a 1966 Toronado and Manny gave me a set of rings to put in the
FD flanges as they are larger than the inner CV joint covers. They center
the CV joint in the flange. IIRC someone mentioned awhile back that if a
3.21 is a 1967 you don't need them. It was also been noted net that they are
not necessary as the bolts will center the CV joints in the FD flanges. I
bought the best grade synthetic gear oil I could find. IIRC it was Mobil 1.
Hope this helps!
By the way a blow by blow accounting of your swap would be appreciated;
especially by ME! ;-)
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Choffat
Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 12:17 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Trans Swap
Folks, For those of you who have done an R&R on your tranny, a few
questions:
1. Front wheels off the coach? (I assume yes)
2. Wheel well liners out (again assume yes?)
3. Best place to block up? Manny stated the cross member needs to be at
least 24" off the ground to clear the tranny.
4. Carb Flange the best place to hoist the engine from? (seems to be)
5. Re-use the torque converter bolts or buy new? Bell housing bolts? I
intend to use new on the FD attachment to the Tranny case.
6. What's teh 455 Weigh (for the come along capacity)
Any hard lessons learned?
For 3:21 Final drive:
1. Any issues with the RH shaft bracket or is it a direct bolt-on?
2. Recommended Gear oil (what the manual says or something better these
days?)
Just trying to get my ducks in a row to have a smooth and efficient
one-afternoon swap later this week.
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD The Engineer's Motorhome
S T I L L - U N D E R - C O N S T R U C T I O N
Scottsdale, AZ
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Trans Swap [message #68548 is a reply to message #68544] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 19:58 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Chr$ wrote on Sun, 27 December 2009 19:17 |
Folks, For those of you who have done an R&R on your tranny, a few questions:
1. Front wheels off the coach? (I assume yes)
2. Wheel well liners out (again assume yes?)
3. Best place to block up? Manny stated the cross member needs to be at least 24" off the ground to clear the tranny.
4. Carb Flange the best place to hoist the engine from? (seems to be)
5. Re-use the torque converter bolts or buy new? Bell housing bolts? I intend to use new on the FD attachment to the Tranny case.
6. What's the 455 Weigh (for the come along capacity)
Any hard lessons learned?
For 3:21 Final drive:
1. Any issues with the RH shaft bracket or is it a direct bolt-on?
2. Recommended Gear oil (what the manual says or something better these days?)
Just trying to get my ducks in a row to have a smooth and efficient one-afternoon swap later this week.
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Let's see if I can answer some of them
1. NO, but you can if you want for more room.
2. YES
3. 24" is a little high. I think 18" is closer. I just jacked mine up from the center. I put it on a couple of jack stands under the frame. If it is not high enough you can always jack it up higher after you drop the trans on the ground and go up a notch or two more on the jack stands. We dropped mine, rolled it off of the jack on to a piece of card board and dragged it out on the cardboard.
4. There are two bolt holes on the back of the heads. I attached two chains to them. The other ends of the chains had eye bolts on them. The eye bolts went through a 1.5 inch square piece of tubing with holes in it about 3 feet long. It just has to go across the hole when the hatch cover is open. The threaded eye bolts made the height of the chains adjustable simply by turning the nuts on the eye bolts. I have heard of people just using a 2x2 or 2x4 instead of the box tubing.
5. Yes reuse
6. I have no idea on the weight but you are only supporting the back half. The front is still attached to the motor mount.
Note: I have pulled the trans attached to the FD and not attached to the final drive. I think it is much easier to pull it if it is NOT ATTACHED.
I have no experience with the 3.21 final drive. I have to assume it is similar to a 3.07. I used some normal rear end grease in mine. I think I used synthetic since it only took a couple of quarts. I do not remember the weight.
It took us (2 people) 1.5 hours to remove the trans and 2.5 hours to install the trans after jacking it up and removing the fender liners. Add to that extra time if you are replacing the FD. If doing the FD, I would break the jack shaft bolts loose prior to jacking up the coach. You do not need to remove them prior to jacking. Also get a 3/8" and 1/4" air ratchet. It makes things a lot quicker and easier.
A good trans jack attachment for your floor jack sure makes it a lot easier installing the trans. Just a floor jack will suffice in dropping it and the FD.
I would not recommend the come-along.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Trans Swap [message #68551 is a reply to message #68544] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 20:14 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks guys, for the quick responses.
My 3:21 is a 1967 and Manny said I didn't need spacers. I am a bit concerned about the right seal. I do not have a sleeve. I may have to have one made.
It was recommended to me to lower the tranny with a come-along or a chain-hoist.
I was also told the job goes easier with the rear end attached. I think it balances better or just one less thing to lift up.
I plan to use a unistrut frame similar to what Manny recommended out of box and angle tubing...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap [message #68557 is a reply to message #68551] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 20:49 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Chris,
Call Manny regarding the shaft seal.
How about one of these to lower and raise the trans/FD?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39152
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Choffat
Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 1:14 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap
Thanks guys, for the quick responses.
My 3:21 is a 1967 and Manny said I didn't need spacers. I am a bit concerned
about the right seal. I do not have a sleeve. I may have to have one made.
It was recommended to me to lower the tranny with a come-along or a
chain-hoist.
I was also told the job goes easier with the rear end attached. I think it
balances better or just one less thing to lift up.
I plan to use a unistrut frame similar to what Manny recommended out of box
and angle tubing...
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD The Engineer's Motorhome
S T I L L - U N D E R - C O N S T R U C T I O N
Scottsdale, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap [message #68561 is a reply to message #68557] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 21:30 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I was going to buy one of those but my installation helper (Blaine Merrell) already owned one and he brought it along when he helped me install it again.
The first time we pulled my trans the coach was on a hoist on it's wheels with the liners installed in Blaine Merrell's Florida room. We used that same transmission jack to drop it and the final drive together.
The second time was in my hanger on the floor.
If you are on the floor I still question the need for the come along. Simply put the FD on a floor jack and let it down. It does not weigh that much. Jim K. can tell you the weight, he ships them all the time.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Trans Swap [message #68572 is a reply to message #68544] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 23:29 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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one pain in the butt is getting the sheet metal shield off that covers the bell housing bottom half. it has to come off to get to the torque converter bolts. there is an upper bolt that is almost impossible to get to. you cannot even see it; just feel it. we got it out and back in but it isn't easy.
good luck.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap [message #68591 is a reply to message #68551] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 07:00 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chris,
I have the over the hatch engine swap frame if you need it.
On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Chris Choffat <cchoffataz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks guys, for the quick responses.
>
> My 3:21 is a 1967 and Manny said I didn't need spacers. I am a bit concerned about the right seal. I do not have a sleeve. I may have to have one made.
>
> It was recommended to me to lower the tranny with a come-along or a chain-hoist.
>
> I was also told the job goes easier with the rear end attached. I think it balances better or just one less thing to lift up.
>
> I plan to use a unistrut frame similar to what Manny recommended out of box and angle tubing...
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD The Engineer's Motorhome
> S T I L L - U N D E R - C O N S T R U C T I O N
> Scottsdale, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: Trans Swap [message #68634 is a reply to message #68544] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 12:43 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Steven,
Thanks for the offer, but I'd rather spend the shipping costs of it to make another one that can be used by the folks in PHX.
I really appreciate it, however.
As for the floor jack, may do that too, It's just a matter of getting the front of the coach higher... Forklift may help.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap [message #68647 is a reply to message #68634] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 13:35 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chris,
The Saguaro Jet Set folks have on in Phoenix also.
I dropped the engine on a creeper and wheeled it out from under the
coach. If you lay it on it's side, it slips out of the wheel well
pretty slick if the strut bar is removed. Put the new one in the same
way.
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Chris Choffat <cchoffataz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Steven,
>
> Thanks for the offer, but I'd rather spend the shipping costs of it to make another one that can be used by the folks in PHX.
>
> I really appreciate it, however.
>
> As for the floor jack, may do that too, It's just a matter of getting the front of the coach higher... Forklift may help.
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD The Engineer's Motorhome
> S T I L L - U N D E R - C O N S T R U C T I O N
> Scottsdale, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: Trans Swap [message #68653 is a reply to message #68651] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 13:54 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Jim, I'm interested. I'll PM you.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap [message #68674 is a reply to message #68671] |
Mon, 28 December 2009 17:40 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Please post the details on this seal in a new message titled 3.21 Final
Drive Right Side Seal.
Thanks,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2009 10:22 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap
There is a seal that can be used for the RH shaft on the 3.21. It is
non-standard...not designed for this application. It does not require a
sleeve, and I have used it in my FD for almost 4 yrs now with no leaks. I
cannot find my records of the seal #, but have an extra in my coach. I will
be going to my coach tomorrow or Wednesday. If you want locate it and post
the PN here. Let me know....
--
Larry :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap [message #68731 is a reply to message #68704] |
Tue, 29 December 2009 09:10 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Larry & Rob
It is right on BDubs site.
http://www.bdub.net/gmcmhparts/
J.R. Wright
On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:28 PM, Larry wrote:
>
>
> Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 28 December 2009 17:40
>> Larry,
>>
>> Please post the details on this seal in a new message titled 3.21
>> Final
>> Drive Right Side Seal.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rob Mueller
>
>
> OK...it'll be a couple of days before I get to it. I actually
> posted the seal # on a GMC parts site about 3 yrs ago. I cannot
> locate that site anymore. It was a site that had GMCMH parts and
> alt parts.
> --
> Larry :)
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
_______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans Swap [message #68744 is a reply to message #68731] |
Tue, 29 December 2009 11:07 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| powerjon wrote on Tue, 29 December 2009 09:10 |
Larry & Rob
It is right on BDubs site.
http://www.bdub.net/gmcmhparts/
J.R. Wright
On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:28 PM, Larry wrote:
>
>
> Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 28 December 2009 17:40
>> Larry,
>>
>> Please post the details on this seal in a new message titled 3.21
>> Final
>> Drive Right Side Seal.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rob Mueller
>
>
> OK...it'll be a couple of days before I get to it. I actually
> posted the seal # on a GMC parts site about 3 yrs ago. I cannot
> locate that site anymore. It was a site that had GMCMH parts and
> alt parts.
> --
> Larry 
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
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Hey thanks JR!! Can't tell you how much time I spent trying to find that site. But there it is...
So, the Seal that works on the R side output axle is NAPA #13739
Again, while it is NOT designed specifically for the 3.21 FD application, I have used it for 4 yrs now with no leak issues. I will post again under a new thread title. HTH
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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