Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Water Heater issues
| Water Heater issues [message #68201] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 21:54  |
lance
Messages: 190
Registered: December 2004
Location: Vancouver, WA
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If you've been following along, I've been restoring my 76 Palm Beach for six months, just moved in and discovered a number of issues. Surprise! The latest issue is the hot water heater. I made sure that the hot water heater was full, then turned it on. After several hours I turned on a hot water tap and the water came out almost boiling and smelling strangely somewhat like Elmer's glue but very strong. No spurting or air escaping, just blazing hot water. I immediately turned off the hot water heater but now even the cold water from the hot water tap stinks. Anyone ever experience anything like this? Do I need a new unit? If so, is there an upgrade?
1974 Palm Beach
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| Re: Water Heater issues [message #68202 is a reply to message #68201] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 22:05  |
GMCNUSA
Messages: 283
Registered: August 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Karma: 0
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If you've been following along, I've been restoring my 76 Palm Beach for six months, just moved in and discovered a number of issues. Surprise! The latest issue is the hot water heater. I made sure that the hot water heater was full, then turned it on. After several hours I turned on a hot water tap and the water came out almost boiling and smelling strangely somewhat like Elmer's glue but very strong. No spurting or air escaping, just blazing hot water. I immediately turned off the hot water heater but now even the cold water from the hot water tap stinks. Anyone ever experience anything like this? Do I need a new unit? If so, is there an upgrade?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1976 Palm Beach
Are you on well water? I had similar problem with a new boat that used the same style water heater we use and the water would stink if we did not use city water to fill the fresh water tank. The best guess was the anode rod reacted with something in the well water.
Good Luck.
Larry Dilk
Indianapolis, IN
76 Eleganza II
Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
Just LOVE It!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues [message #68220 is a reply to message #68218] |
Thu, 24 December 2009 02:58 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Replace the electric temperature switch mounted against the tank with an adjustable one. I think I got mine from Home Depot. It has been years ago so I'm not sure where I got it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues [message #68369 is a reply to message #68220] |
Fri, 25 December 2009 17:27 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Hot water stink is generally hydrogen sulfide gas mixed into the water. Created by bacteria reacting with dissolved stuff in your water supply. They hide in water tanks. Atwood recommends flushing with a mixture of white vinegar and fresh water, at a 3/2 ratio. Filling the hot water heater and cycling it several times, per the Atwood pdf. I have a similiar problem with house hot water, feed from a well supply. I generally flush the tank and add Hydrogen peroxide to the tank for a good soak. This will hold off the "smell" for about 4 months. You can also use household bleach, but it is tough on the metals in your water system. Be sure to flush all traces of bleach out before you put the hot water heater back in service.
You also need to check the anode for calcium build up. I generally sand down the calcium deposits, before reinstalling the anode.
Tom Phipps,
Snowed in GMC
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues [message #68371 is a reply to message #68369] |
Fri, 25 December 2009 19:56 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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If your using the same type of water you'll have the same problem.
We stock the SS tanks that Jim De Maere makes.
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Thomas Phipps <tph1pp5@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hot water stink is generally hydrogen sulfide gas mixed into the water. Â Created by bacteria reacting with dissolved stuff in your water supply. Â They hide in water tanks. Â Atwood recommends flushing with a mixture of white vinegar and fresh water, at a 3/2 ratio. Â Filling the hot water heater and cycling it several times, per the Atwood pdf. Â I have a similiar problem with house hot water, feed from a well supply. Â I generally flush the tank and add Hydrogen peroxide to the tank for a good soak. Â This will hold off the "smell" for about 4 months. Â You can also use household bleach, but it is tough on the metals in your water system. Â Be sure to flush all traces of bleach out before you put the hot water heater back in service.
> You also need to check the anode for calcium build up. Â I generally sand down the calcium deposits, before reinstalling the anode.
> Tom Phipps,
> Snowed in GMC
> _______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues [message #68375 is a reply to message #68371] |
Fri, 25 December 2009 22:22 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jim,
Avions use an Atwood EH-6 hot water heater with an aluminum tanks. Will the
SS tank fit in an Atwood EH-6 case and are inlet, outlet, drain, engine hot
water and element in the same place?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Saturday, 26 December 2009 12:56 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues
If your using the same type of water you'll have the same problem.
We stock the SS tanks that Jim De Maere makes.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues [message #68376 is a reply to message #68375] |
Fri, 25 December 2009 22:38 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Rob,
I'm not as I'm not at a place to look it up for sure.
I was assuming that it was the conventional one.
Thanks for catching me on this as I did not remember that this model
used the Atwood.
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Avions use an Atwood EH-6 hot water heater with an aluminum tanks. Will the
> SS tank fit in an Atwood EH-6 case and are inlet, outlet, drain, engine hot
> water and element in the same place?
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
> Sent: Saturday, 26 December 2009 12:56 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues
>
> If your using the same type of water you'll have the same problem.
> We stock the SS tanks that Jim De Maere makes.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues [message #68395 is a reply to message #68375] |
Sat, 26 December 2009 09:38 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
My Avion's HW heater is different. It is a electric 6 gal AO Smith
not an Atwood and it appears to be original. The DeMaere SS tanks are
for the Type 1 and Type 2 HW heaters. If the Type 1 heater was indeed
made by Atwood then the DeMaere Type 1 tank would be a great
replacement. I used one when I rebuild by Type 2 HW. They are truly
a piece of work, I took pictures of it before I installed it. I can
find and post if anyone is interested.
If you wanted electric only with engine heat the Atwood EHM6 water
heater would be a very good replacement. Does come in 2 models.
<http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/ATW/ATW93891.html
<http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/ATW/ATW94610.html
Spec Sheet is next.
<http://www.atwoodmobile.com/images/waterheater.pdf
The spec sheet also shows the Gas/Electric units also in later pages.
J.R. Wright
> Jim,
>
> Avions use an Atwood EH-6 hot water heater with an aluminum tanks.
> Will the
> SS tank fit in an Atwood EH-6 case and are inlet, outlet, drain,
> engine hot
> water and element in the same place?
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
> Sent: Saturday, 26 December 2009 12:56 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues
>
> If your using the same type of water you'll have the same problem.
> We stock the SS tanks that Jim De Maere makes.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues [message #68399 is a reply to message #68395] |
Sat, 26 December 2009 12:49 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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There is a national backorder on these water heaters right now so you may habe trouble finding an EHM-6 Atwood. We gave up dealing with that some time ago. We use a different unit with a stainless stell cover. We sell it for less than what the "Ships store" listed there. I try and keep them in stock in that folks are having a hard time with the Atwoods.
Jim Bounds
-----------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, December 26, 2009 10:38:34 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues
Rob,
My Avion's HW heater is different. It is a electric 6 gal AO Smith
not an Atwood and it appears to be original. The DeMaere SS tanks are
for the Type 1 and Type 2 HW heaters. If the Type 1 heater was indeed
made by Atwood then the DeMaere Type 1 tank would be a great
replacement. I used one when I rebuild by Type 2 HW. They are truly
a piece of work, I took pictures of it before I installed it. I can
find and post if anyone is interested.
If you wanted electric only with engine heat the Atwood EHM6 water
heater would be a very good replacement. Does come in 2 models.
<http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/ATW/ATW93891.html
<http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/ATW/ATW94610.html
Spec Sheet is next.
<http://www.atwoodmobile.com/images/waterheater.pdf
The spec sheet also shows the Gas/Electric units also in later pages.
J.R. Wright
> Jim,
>
> Avions use an Atwood EH-6 hot water heater with an aluminum tanks.
> Will the
> SS tank fit in an Atwood EH-6 case and are inlet, outlet, drain,
> engine hot
> water and element in the same place?
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
> Sent: Saturday, 26 December 2009 12:56 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues
>
> If your using the same type of water you'll have the same problem.
> We stock the SS tanks that Jim De Maere makes.
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues [message #68422 is a reply to message #68416] |
Sat, 26 December 2009 18:26 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
I just went out and looked at the HW installation in our coach. If it
is a replacement unit and as you said that all your Avions have the
Atwood HW heater then it was done a very long time ago. Could not
find and mfg. date on the label but I cannot see it all. I spent a
few minutes looking for the hot water lines to the engine but found
nothing not even at the engine end. When I get back from Florida I
will spend some more time under the coach and see if I can find where
it was routed and installed. I was going to update the HWH anyway and
want to have the engine heat function. I had looked at your pictures
a while back but the difference just didn't jump out at that time.
Thanks for the information.
J.R.
On Dec 26, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> J.R.,
>
> That's interesting because all three of my Avions have the Atwood.
>
> Are the fittings on your AO Smith in the same place as the Atwood?
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31262
>
> As you can see the one Jim B installed is made by Seward and has the
> fittings in the exact same place as the Atwood.
>
> http://www.seawardproducts.com/waterhtr.htm
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John Wright
> Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2009 2:39 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater issues
>
> Rob,
> My Avion's HW heater is different. It is a electric 6 gal AO Smith
> not an Atwood and it appears to be original
>
> J.R. Wright
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| [GMCnet] Heat and A/C .... for Dummies [message #68520 is a reply to message #68399] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 16:49 |
Fin Beven
Messages: 101
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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OK, I am admittedly no mechanic, but I have opened up my heater-A/C box.
Several months ago Steve Ferguson tried to help me with this, but I don't
think I understood everything he said.
Mine is a 1976 Edgemont, to the extent that it matters.
Inside the box, here's what I found:
1. In the upper-left corner there is a separate box that is the air intake,
and also houses the "squirrel cage" that takes out-side air and blows it
through the system.
Also located in that upper-left box is a control lever that opens and closes
a "door" into the cockpit between the cockpit and the cooler section of the
box. This "door" would have been controlled by a vacuum actuator. My
impression is that the vacuum actuator no longer works, and it is definitely
not connected to the lever. The door is in the closed position, but there
is a broken zip-tie on the lever, suggesting that the door has previously
been held open.
2. The lower half of the box is the cooling section. When turned on, it
chills just great (Duracool). However, with the above-mentioned "door"
closed, there is very little air flow into the cockpit.
3. The remaining upper-right section is the heater section. As it is very
simple, this also seems to work just fine. There is a "trap-door" between
the heating and cooling sections, and this trap-door closes when the A/C is
on and the heater is off. It opens when the heater is on.
So: Two Questions:
1. The "door" between the heater-A/C box and the cockpit. It would seem
that the system would work best if this door were held in the full-open
position. It may be possible to fix the old vacuum controls, or it may be
relatively easy to rig up a manual control for this, such that it could be
operated from the front hatch. Is there a time when having this door
closed, or partially open, would be an advantage.
2. The air-intake to the squirrel cage. Some earlier post on this list
(maybe I misunderstood them) seemed to recommend closing off this access to
outside air. The concept seemed to be that this would force the system to
only do "Recirculation". However, on looking inside of my heater-A/C box,
it would seem that there is no way for the squirrel cage to get air if this
opening is closed off. Am I missing something ? "Recirculation" would seem
like the best approach, if that is possible.
One last bit of information. We are in SoCal, so typically cooling is way
more important than heating. If it's too cold, we can always turn on the
Suburban heater.
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
Fin Beven
Pasadena, CA
1976 ex-Edgemont.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Heat and A/C .... for Dummies [message #68530 is a reply to message #68520] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 17:52 |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
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Senior Member |
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Have you read Zay Brands Seperating Hot from Cold.
He explains all the A/C and heating options.
It is available on www.bdub.net
You need to determine if you have the early model A/C
system or the later. I believe the return air system
changed in 76. If you have the later version you do not
want to close off the outside air unless you modify return air
system inside the coach. I don't have my memory cap
on so I might be wrong.
After you have read Zay's article come back if you still
have questions.
Charles
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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] Heat and A/C .... for Dummies [message #68535 is a reply to message #68520] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 18:10 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Fin,
1. The actuator and linkage in the fresh air plenum control the Max. Air
door which when activated by the vacuum actuator, diverts ALL flow through
the evaporator (rear to front) right back to the rear and out the added
center vent below the original dash. That's about the only way you can hope
to get any cooling air into the coach.
In the deactivated position, the Max. Air door forces all air to flow
upward, either through the heater core or not, dependent upon the
temperature setting, and into the plastic plenum which extends across the
top of the aluminum firewall.
The flow through that plastic plenum flows (more accurately, attempts to
flow) to either the forward 1/2 of the plenum and onto the windshield; or,
to either the foot vents or the in-dash louvers -- all dependent upon the
particular cooling, heating, or defrosting condition called for by the dash
control and selected by the various vacuum actuators (5 by rough count from
memory).
So, to ensure maximum cooling, you want the Max Air door to be open. With
the HVAC box's front cover off, you should be able to see straight into the
cockpit.
2. If you'll visit www.gmcws.org and look under the tech section you'll
find a booklet by Zay Brand, "Separating Hot from Cold". Among the
invaluable information there is instruction on how to provide interior air
to the squirrel cage when the external air inlet is sealed. Several of us
have posted photos of our variations on that theme. Here's mine:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4637
HTH,
Ken H.
2009/12/27 Fin Beven <FinBeven@msn.com>
> ...
> So: Two Questions:
>
> 1. The "door" between the heater-A/C box and the cockpit. It would seem
> that the system would work best if this door were held in the full-open
> position. It may be possible to fix the old vacuum controls, or it may be
> relatively easy to rig up a manual control for this, such that it could be
> operated from the front hatch. Is there a time when having this door
> closed, or partially open, would be an advantage.
>
> 2. The air-intake to the squirrel cage. Some earlier post on this list
> (maybe I misunderstood them) seemed to recommend closing off this access to
> outside air. The concept seemed to be that this would force the system to
> only do "Recirculation". However, on looking inside of my heater-A/C box,
> it would seem that there is no way for the squirrel cage to get air if this
> opening is closed off. Am I missing something ? "Recirculation" would
> seem
> like the best approach, if that is possible.
> ...
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| Re: [GMCnet] Heat and A/C .... for Dummies [message #68542 is a reply to message #68520] |
Sun, 27 December 2009 18:44 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Fin Beven wrote on Sun, 27 December 2009 14:49 |
So: Two Questions:
1. The "door" between the heater-A/C box and the cockpit. It would seem
that the system would work best if this door were held in the full-open
position. It may be possible to fix the old vacuum controls, or it may be
relatively easy to rig up a manual control for this, such that it could be
operated from the front hatch. Is there a time when having this door
closed, or partially open, would be an advantage.
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
Fin Beven
Pasadena, CA
1976 ex-Edgemont.
|
Fin: I don't know if it will help, but in this album of mine on the AC repairs I made on my 76, there are a few photos of the door situation and what I did to make it right.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4048
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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