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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Filters [message #67001 is a reply to message #66992] |
Tue, 08 December 2009 21:05   |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Dave,
I am always trying to learn more about things that people feel that I
should know and seek help from.
I can see things on the testing easier as these test are very simile
to the one we do in the Industrial Air filter Industry.
There are lot of tricks we can do to achieve results.
The big thing is the filter media. There are only few of them that
supply them to the manufactures.
Each manufactures have different grades of media at different prices.
Controlling the consistency is very hard and if you see how the media
is manufactured, you will shake your head and laugh.
Manufactures of Industrial filters pay Independent labs to test their products.
They will ask the lab to purchase them on the open market. Since the
lab is getting paid by that filter manufacture, the lab will ask them
for few places to purchase them.
The moment the names are given to the lab, that manufacture will
contact those people on that list and offer to them to send them at no
cost samples that are packaged ready to go to the lab. So the lab
ended up with a special hand picked filter from a manufacture that was
purchased on an open market.
You think congress was slick..
One test indicates to me what that one filter did.
We can waste lot of time on the filter and neglect how well the filter
seals on the housing.
Lot of you replace filters without cleaning the housing where the
filter seals. If there is any dust there,that dust act as a ball
bearing and other dust will migrate through there and get to your
engine.
I printed this information so I can review it tonight and learn more.
At my age, things like this gets me excited. I still need Grace to
make me frisky.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Dave King <kingd@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Jim K. probably knows all about this stuff, but this is for everyone's info
> http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm
>
> Enjoy,
> Dave King
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Filters [message #67012 is a reply to message #67001] |
Wed, 09 December 2009 04:35 |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I also read the test data with great interest. It correlates well with other test data that I have seen, from both Donaldson and Fram. Of course, it only shows what happens with a particular type of dust under a specific condition. The references to marketing hype are almost certainly directed toward K&N, the king of hype. They usually brag about 30% more flow, but what the data says is they have something like 30% less pressure drop, equating to about 15 to 20% "more flow." But what does that mean? At the rated flow the pressure drop might be 6 instead of 10 inches. The engine may never flow as much as that, but 4 inches of water represents about 1% of an atmosphere (about 384 inches of water). But the engine might flow only half that, bringing the difference down to 1/4%, assuming turbulent flow, not quite what the data shows, but close. The K&N passes at least 5 times as much dirt. Is the 1/4% worth it? And if one is looking more for fuel
economy at part load the difference would be immeasurable. I once had a project with Fram to verify their advertising contention that replacing your dirty filter would improve mileage. On a standard EPA test we started reducing filter area with tape. We had to reduce the effective area to less than the size of a quarter before we could measure any difference. They stopped their advertising and went to "pay me now or pay me later." Go figure. I'm a strong believer in paper elements because they have been proven to work. However, I'm not as convinced that AC Delco parts are better than the other "name brands." Jim's comments might hit the mark there.
I was once working with Autolite. They built at least 3 basic types of plugs. One was the Ford OEM plug, one was their own brand and one was a private label type as sold by Sears and others. The difference? Ford insisted on putting blue rings on the ribs, which cost more. Other than that they were all identical. Well, except for the price. Problem is that if a consumer went to Sears how would he have known that he was getting the same plug as from Ford? No way to know.
Gary
________________________________
Dave,
I am always trying to learn more about things that people feel that I
should know and seek help from.
I can see things on the testing easier as these test are very simile
to the one we do in the Industrial Air filter Industry.
There are lot of tricks we can do to achieve results.
The big thing is the filter media. There are only few of them that
supply them to the manufactures.
Each manufactures have different grades of media at different prices.
Controlling the consistency is very hard and if you see how the media
is manufactured, you will shake your head and laugh.
Manufactures of Industrial filters pay Independent labs to test their products.
They will ask the lab to purchase them on the open market. Since the
lab is getting paid by that filter manufacture, the lab will ask them
for few places to purchase them.
The moment the names are given to the lab, that manufacture will
contact those people on that list and offer to them to send them at no
cost samples that are packaged ready to go to the lab. So the lab
ended up with a special hand picked filter from a manufacture that was
purchased on an open market.
You think congress was slick..
One test indicates to me what that one filter did.
We can waste lot of time on the filter and neglect how well the filter
seals on the housing.
Lot of you replace filters without cleaning the housing where the
filter seals. If there is any dust there,that dust act as a ball
bearing and other dust will migrate through there and get to your
engine.
I printed this information so I can review it tonight and learn more.
At my age, things like this gets me excited. I still need Grace to
make me frisky.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air Filters [message #67014 is a reply to message #66992] |
Wed, 09 December 2009 07:22 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The real test here is to send in an oil sample for analysis. My last
sample to Blackstone Labs came back with a personal comment from the
lab technician regarding the lack of silicates in the oil and asked me
for information on the type of air filter I was using since it was
doing such an excellent job. I replaced the Ecolite filter in my
Cummins with a unit from AFE. That particular sample was after I had
16,000 miles on that filter. Since I made the filter holder from a
used disposable container, I was able to ensure a very positive seat
between the filter and the cannister.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Dave King <kingd@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Jim K. probably knows all about this stuff, but this is for everyone's info
> http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm
>
> Enjoy,
> Dave King
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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