Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] E10 Ethanol (was: RE: What the?)
| Re: [GMCnet] E10 Ethanol (was: RE: What the?) [message #66852] |
Sun, 06 December 2009 14:13  |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma:
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
Math and theories are great, but reality is sometimes quite
different. We have a local fuel company, who has several hundred
stations, and some
years ago they became addicted to the rebate that the government
gives for the purchase of ethanol. So they started doubling up
on their purchases.
Suddenly there's a flock of motor failures in the local area.
Someone put two and two together and they started paying for
overhauls for all kinds
of equipment. Lucky me, I didn't buy at their stations.
Second item, when I was young and we had SERVICE stations selling
gas, the operators used to drop a pipe down in the tank weekly
and suck
a few gallons of whatever off the bottom and dump it. Now we
have convenience stores that also sell gasoline. The clerks
don't come outside
and probably don't even know where the tanks are. With ethanol's
known affinity for sucking moisture out of the air, who knows
what kind of
mixture you're buying. Of course, if the plugs can fire the
mixture, maybe the moisture content will steam clean the
combustion. This would
account for the lack of color change on the plugs.
Well, enough of this rant, I long for the good old days.
Gary Kosier
77EII & 77PB
Newark, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <casey.gary@yahoo.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] E10 Ethanol (was: RE: What the?)
> Good post, Mac.
> I can help with your desire to join the GMCMH gang - I have my
> eye on another one I would like, but have to sell this one
> first :-).
> Anyway, I did a little research on the subject: Ethanol, on a
> per gallon basis, as 61% as much energy as gasoline. So the
> example of E10 would contain .9 X 125,000 + 0.1 X 76,000 BTU
> per gallon, or 120,100 BTU per gallon, a loss of about 4%.
> Modern cars might be more adaptive: In the old days spark
> timing was an open-loop affair with someone determining that
> over the life of the car in all operating conditions that the
> spark advance should be no more than X. Engines were either
> octane-limited or power-limited and often the compression ratio
> was lowered so they were power-limited(meaning that the spark
> could be advanced beyond MBT without detonation). With modern
> knock sensing and spark control, often with the advance for
> each cylinder controlled separately, the compression ratio
> could be raised so that the engine is always octane-limited.
> That relies on the control system to protect the engine. Put
> in E10 and the controller can advance the spark
> a little, taking advantage of the higher octane that might
> accompany the addition of 10% ethanal.
>
> I say "might" because the refiner could use a lower octane base
> stock when he knows he will be adding 10% ethanol. And another
> thing - just because the pump has a label "can contain up to
> 10% ethanol" doesn't mean that is how much is actually there.
>
> Gary
> Not too many interesting vehicles, but I do have a Honda
> scooter...
>
>
>
>
> I have been watching this big hoorah with some interest.
>
>
>
> I have recorded my fuel usage and consumption figures
>
> for well over 45 years. When the ethanol started being
>
> added to our gasoline, I heard many tales of "disaster"
>
> claiming one thing and another.
>
>
>
> At first, I did notice that my fuel milage was maybe one
>
> to one and a half mpg lower using the E10 fuel. However,
>
> as "pure" gasoline became harder to find, I found that my
>
> mpg results with E10 gradually came up over several month
>
> to be virtually indistinguishable from those when using the
>
> 100% gasoline. For awhile last summer, many stations
>
> went back to "pure" gasoline as their costs for that dropped
>
> below those for the E10 mixture! Guess what! My mileage
>
> results did not change in any noticeable amount.
>
>
>
> I have been told by petroleum folks that ethanol has 10%
>
> less energy content than regular gasoline. Assuming that
>
> is true, and that the maximum portion of added ethanol
>
> is 10%, I believe you could state that in 100 gallons of
>
> E10, you would have 90 gallons of gasoline and 10 of
>
> ethanol. Calculate it out and that would be 90 times
>
> 100% and 10 times 90% giving equivalent of 99 gallons
>
> of gasoline. That's a ONE percent drop, folks ! !
>
>
>
> Admitedly, running E10 fuel through a fuel system that
>
> has been sitting for many years is going to result in lots
>
> of crud moving through lines, carburetor passages, etc.
>
>
>
> I also remember another experience with a 64 1/2 Ford
>
> Mustang that I bought new. That buggy started running
>
> rough and wouldn't make over 3,000 rpm. I went to an
>
> Amoco station and filled up with their premium, which was
>
> totally unleaded fuel. Within two tankfuls of the "good
>
> stuff" cleaning out the old stuff, the buggy was back to
>
> getting 5,000 rpm when wound out and an indicated
>
> top speed of about 110-115.
>
>
>
> My point is, that while the E10 may initially clog things
>
> up and cause all sorts of grief, it might be advisable for
>
> ANYBODY buying any vehicle that has set unused for a
>
> long time to take whatever measures necessary to do
>
> a flushing/cleaning of the entire fuel system. It might
>
> even take more than one initial shot to get things right.
>
> Be prepared to change filters frequently for the first
>
> couple of thousand miles.
>
>
>
> I may have to sell off some of my other motorized toys
>
> to be able to join the GMC MH gang.
>
>
>
> As always, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).
>
>
>
> D C "Mac" Macdonald
>
> Oklahoma City, OK
>
>
>
> 2004 F250SD Diesel 4x4
>
> 2000 Cedar Creek TT
>
> 1995 Carver 355AC
>
> 1997 SugarSand Mirage
>
> 2000 HD FLTRSEI
>
>
>
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