Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation
| [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65427] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 20:50  |
Len Novak
Messages: 676
Registered: February 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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All,
I have the newest, latest and greatest dual bag system sitting in a garage,
purchased from Jim K. My son and I will attempt to install the system over
the weekend. If you want to watch and take notes on perhaps not how to do
it drop me a line at b52rule@adelphia.com for day and time.
The worst was can do is document the installation for others to use.
Cheers,
Len and Pat
78 Kingsley, The Beast II with dash lights that work
Fallbrook, CA
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
www.bdub.net/novak/
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Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Las Vegas, NV new email: B52sRule@Gmail.com
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
www.bdub.net/novak/
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65433 is a reply to message #65427] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 21:27  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Looks like the Duel Bag System is catching on.
Jim B, Tom Hampton,and Migil have been selling them along with us.
Replacement cost of the bags are half that of the origional.
We were overstocked with the Origional bags in June, now we will be
out by Spring.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Len <B52Rule@adelphia.net> wrote:
> All,
>
>
>
> I have the newest, latest and greatest dual bag system sitting in a garage,
> purchased from Jim K. Â My son and I will attempt to install the system over
> the weekend. Â If you want to watch and take notes on perhaps not how to do
> it drop me a line at b52rule@adelphia.com for day and time.
>
>
>
> The worst was can do is document the installation for others to use.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Len and Pat
> 78 Kingsley, The Beast II with dash lights that work
> Fallbrook, CA
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375
>
> www.bdub.net/novak/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65467 is a reply to message #65440] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 06:25 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Another thought on this Greg, with the cost of a pair of new original air bags over $800, it is actually "cheaper" even up front to purchase the new dual bag system which "retrofits" your coach to the new "off shelf" air bags. If you go to sell your coach it will be a sales feature in that the coach will have been refitted for the future-- new owners will have to do this refit themselves before they can deem their new purchse reliable. At that, you can upgrade the system to the superior performing Q-bag system for a little more at a later date if you have to spend $ in steps.
There really is no reason any more for buying an original air bag or supporting those that are gouging our community with the price that want for them. It is better for you to go with the new systems and it's actually cheaper.
Someone might say "I onlt need 1 air bag". Do you replace shocks, brake pads, shoes, wheel cylinders and other parts by "each". No, the left side of the coach goes the same place as the right side so why should you only prepare one side of the coach with a new air bag. If one bag is near the end of it's life, it's a good bet that the other side is not far off and even if one bag seems good, heck put it up on Ebay and someone not understanding the dynamics of the issue will pay you big bucks for it and you will be upgrading the reliability of your coach in the meantime--- all of this is a win! So do not call me for a new original air bag, I'm off of them, I do have a couple of "good" used ones and I'l selling them cheap!
Wake up, the roses are sweet smelling!
Jim Bounds
---------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 11:22:30 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation
Anyone planning to hang onto their coach would be way ahead to replace the old bags with this system, when in need. No doubt about it. Later they can be upgraded to the quadrabag system for price of a few parts. I am sure glad that they have been made available.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
danandteri.blogspot.com
///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65670 is a reply to message #65467] |
Wed, 25 November 2009 17:01 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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| Jim Bounds wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 05:25 |
There really is no reason any more for buying an original air bag or supporting those that are gouging our community with the price that want for them. It is better for you to go with the new systems and it's actually cheaper.
Jim Bounds
|
Jim-
What experience have folks had with their new bag setup? I'm a die hard skeptic and need to see the pluses and minuses of just about everything. You've extolled the pluses, now are there any minuses that folks have run into that a prospective buyer should be aware of when making an informed purchase?
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65672 is a reply to message #65670] |
Wed, 25 November 2009 17:32 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I've got the 4 bag setup that Tom Hampton installed and it's great. Of course I don't know any better - it's had the 4 bag setup for every inch I've been in it! There is a leak in my system somewhere that I may chase down someday. Once the ride height is set to 33 inches, ground to top of T-skirt, I close the valves and there she sits. Otherwise the compressor will kick in every 30 minutes, or so.
Perhaps a seasoned pro might find some fault, but I'm ignorantly blissful in my coach.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy" <Acrosport2@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:01:57 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation
Jim Bounds wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 05:25
> There really is no reason any more for buying an original air bag or supporting those that are gouging our community with the price that want for them. It is better for you to go with the new systems and it's actually cheaper.
>
>
> Jim Bounds
Jim-
What experience have folks had with their new bag setup? I'm a die hard skeptic and need to see the pluses and minuses of just about everything. You've extolled the pluses, now are there any minuses that folks have run into that a prospective buyer should be aware of when making an informed purchase?
--
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65691 is a reply to message #65682] |
Wed, 25 November 2009 20:07 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Leigh Harrison still has his 4 bag design availible. I believe the current price is about $1100. Check his web site.
Tom Phipps,
75 GMC Ex-Avion with only 2 air bags.
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65725 is a reply to message #65467] |
Thu, 26 November 2009 08:25 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Jim Bounds wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 06:25 |
Another thought on this Greg, with the cost of a pair of new original air bags over $800, it is actually "cheaper" even up front to purchase the new dual bag system which "retrofits" your coach to the new "off shelf" air bags. If you go to sell your coach it will be a sales feature in that the coach will have been refitted for the future-- new owners will have to do this refit themselves before they can deem their new purchse reliable. At that, you can upgrade the system to the superior performing Q-bag system for a little more at a later date if you have to spend $ in steps.
There really is no reason any more for buying an original air bag or supporting those that are gouging our community with the price that want for them. It is better for you to go with the new systems and it's actually cheaper.
Someone might say "I only need 1 air bag". Do you replace shocks, brake pads, shoes, wheel cylinders and other parts by "each". No, the left side of the coach goes the same place as the right side so why should you only prepare one side of the coach with a new air bag. If one bag is near the end of it's life, it's a good bet that the other side is not far off and even if one bag seems good, heck put it up on Ebay and someone not understanding the dynamics of the issue will pay you big bucks for it and you will be upgrading the reliability of your coach in the meantime--- all of this is a win! So do not call me for a new original air bag, I'm off of them, I do have a couple of "good" used ones and I'l selling them cheap!
Wake up, the roses are sweet smelling!
Jim Bounds
|
I have a good friend that had a 77 transmode. He called me one day because he blew an air bag. I told him to get two and I would help change them. He only got one and we changed it. 8 months later in the hot July sun we were along the road changing the second one that blew out. It would not come off and we ended up getting flame wrench to remove it. I would have much rather have changed them both at the same time under more pleasant conditions.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65757 is a reply to message #65755] |
Thu, 26 November 2009 16:22 |
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im interested n this as well since one of my bags looks like it will need replacement soon...
| Luvn737s wrote on Thu, 26 November 2009 15:51 |
What parts are common to the Dual Bag and Q-bag that allows upgrading in steps?
|
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65758 is a reply to message #65755] |
Thu, 26 November 2009 16:28 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Luvn737s wrote on Thu, 26 November 2009 15:51 |
What parts are common to the Dual Bag and Q-bag that allows upgrading in steps?
|
the bags!
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65762 is a reply to message #65758] |
Thu, 26 November 2009 20:33 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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The outboard mounting hardware and the bags are the same but the
center mounting support that keeps the bags in alignment is not uses
in the q-bag setup. You can upgrade from the 4 bag to the q-bag for
about $800 more.
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
TZE Zone Restorations
77 Eleganza Custom (For Sale)
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
>
>> What parts are common to the Dual Bag and Q-bag that allows
>> upgrading in steps?
>
> the bags!
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65777 is a reply to message #65774] |
Fri, 27 November 2009 07:09 |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Oops, maybe I should have first read back through some of the earlier posts. As I understand it, the fundamental differences in the system is whether the center connection between the bags is pivoted or fixed. The Q-bag system is fixed and is apparently strong enough to support the weight of the vehicle on only one wheel. The 4-bag system is also fixed, but there have been questions about whether it is strong enough to support the weight on one wheel. The "dual bag" system is pivoted and therefore won't support weight on one wheel only. Do I have it right?
If so, that still brings up a question when running on one wheel - I presume the bag would have to run at twice the normal pressure in order to hold up twice the weight. What is the normal pressure and will there be enough system pressure to supply double that? Will the bag tolerate the higher pressure?
Gary
________________________________
From: Gary Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 5:45:01 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation
Another question about the various bag setups: When I read the ads for any of the replacement designs it seems that "increased stability" is always mentioned, but never is there an explanation as to why that occurs. Any spring only has a force and the spring rate that can affect anything and the force exerted by all the designs has to be the same. So the spring rate must be different. But what is it? I can't find any mention of the difference in rate. Of course, the rate of an air bag varies with travel and static pressure since the volume changes, but at the design ride height there should be a number. And I would think that whether the bags are common (as in the 4-bag setup?) or rigidly supported at the center I would guess the characteristics would be the same regarding ride and handling. When moving slowly over a large bump the common setup as in the original design would presumably have an advantage as the wheels could "walk" over
the bump. True? Trying to decide which version to get.
Gary
Luvn737s wrote on Thu, 26 November 2009 15:51
> What parts are common to the Dual Bag and Q-bag that allows upgrading in steps?
the bags!
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65778 is a reply to message #65774] |
Fri, 27 November 2009 07:17 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
About .two months ago I replaced my Harrison setup with the Quadra bag
setup. Both systems provide a very significant amount of stability.it
Is without a doubt the single best improvement I have made to coach
handling. Driving onto the shoulder and back onto the road again is
no different than doing the same with a car. Truck influence is
significantly reduced as are the adverse effects of high cross winds.
In other words, everything got better.
All of the shortcomings of the Harrison system are are corrected with
the Quadra bag system. Wheras the Harrison cuts over an inch from
full "raise", the Q-Bag setup restores it. The Harrison setup
required changing out my compressor controller and check valve to
handle the 130 psi required to maintain the travel position and get
the coach leveled at some campsites. Both sides were well over 105
psi to maintain "travel". The Q-bag needs about 85-90 psi to maintain
the "travel" positon and about 120 psi for full raise for leveling. I
had two tire problems with the Harrison setup and both resulted in
bending the supports while driving a very short distance to a safe
place to change the tire. The supports for the Q-bag setup are
massive by comparison and with the additional inch or more of "full
raise" available, a jack stand and hook would easily slip under the
bogey casting to facilitate changing a tire without a jack. I
straightened and reenforced the bent uprights on the Harrison system
in hopes that next time wont result in bent pieces but the welding
destroyed the cad plating. It appears that the bag supports on the
Q-bag setup are more than twice as thick and strong but hopefully,
there will be no more dynamic testing done with my GMC.
My 12vdc compressor that sustains air pressure underway is really
flagging after just a few years. That extra 30 psi requirement just
slaves that thing (Thomas 317) and it now will only get up to 90 psi.
I am currently looking for another 12vdc compressor and am looking
hard at the ZenithAir units. Gonna have to save up for that though
as they are expensive.
As far as ride quality is concerned, I honestly cannot tell the
difference between the two systems. You would think it would be just
the opposite with one system requiring 110 psi and 115 psi compared to
85-90 psi on the other system. Both offer the same ride quality as
the OEM system did and both offer uncomparable stability over the OEM
system. Unfortunately, I cannot say why this is but I would bet that
the individual supports for the bags has a tendency to limit bogey
travel in the horizontal plane.
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Gary Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Another question about the various bag setups: When I read the ads for any of the replacement designs it seems that "increased stabiliAbout ty" is always mentioned, but never is there an explanation as to why that occurs.
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation [message #65780 is a reply to message #65777] |
Fri, 27 November 2009 07:31 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
The Aulger double bag setup is an excellent alternative for the OEM
setup. It is a bolt in (really) deal and was designed to replace the
OEM setup as the bags become more and more scarce. It was never
designed to allow driving on one wheel. Since the bags are the same
as the ones used in the QBag system, a future upgrade to the QBag
system can be made using those bags. I believe I have read here where
the vendors will sell the QBag system sans bags.
To answer your question re inflation pressures required to drive with
one wheel off the ground with the Harrison or QBag system, it is not
double. With the Harrison setup I was able to get the wheel off the
pavement by inflating the other bag to 140 psi (my 120VAC compressor
easily handles 150 psi). With the addiditonal travel in the QBag
setup, I can easily get one wheel off the ground with the air pressure
afforded by the OEM compressor. (120 psi). The new Firestone bags
are more than up to the high pressures.
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Gary Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Oops, maybe I should have first read back through some of the earlier posts. As I understand it, the fundamental differences in the system is whether the center connection between the bags is pivoted or fixed. The Q-bag system is fixed and is apparently strong enough to support the weight of the vehicle on only one wheel. The 4-bag system is also fixed, but there have been questions about whether it is strong enough to support the weight on one wheel. The "dual bag" system is pivoted and therefore won't support weight on one wheel only. Do I have it right?
>
> If so, that still brings up a question when running on one wheel - I presume the bag would have to run at twice the normal pressure in order to hold up twice the weight. What is the normal pressure and will there be enough system pressure to supply double that? Will the bag tolerate the higher pressure?
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gary Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 5:45:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 2/4 bag installation
>
> Another question about the various bag setups: When I read the ads for any of the replacement designs it seems that "increased stability" is always mentioned, but never is there an explanation as to why that occurs. Any spring only has a force and the spring rate that can affect anything and the force exerted by all the designs has to be the same. So the spring rate must be different. But what is it? I can't find any mention of the difference in rate. Of course, the rate of an air bag varies with travel and static pressure since the volume changes, but at the design ride height there should be a number. And I would think that whether the bags are common (as in the 4-bag setup?) or rigidly supported at the center I would guess the characteristics would be the same regarding ride and handling. When moving slowly over a large bump the common setup as in the original design would presumably have an advantage as the wheels could "walk" over
> the bump. True? Trying to decide which version to get.
> Gary
>
>
>
>
> Luvn737s wrote on Thu, 26 November 2009 15:51
>> What parts are common to the Dual Bag and Q-bag that allows upgrading in steps?
>
> the bags!
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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It is lighter than the Quadra Bag and does have a few "issues" when used in "non-standard" ways like running on 3 rear wheels. 
