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| [GMCnet] Tires [message #65282] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 11:06  |
steve n
Messages: 79
Registered: July 2007
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Am having a mind freeze....(which seems to be occurring more frequently lately (lol).
My coach is currently running on 16.5" radials, with the original steel wheels.
Sometime real soon, I plan to get either the Alcoa's or Eagle's,. Haven't really decided which although it's my understanding that Jim K. will have Eagle's "on sale" during the month of December.
Anyway, my question is - Going to a 16" wheel/tire, from a 16.5", how will that effect the speedometer reading???
I should know this, but as I said earlier, I'm having a mind freeze.
Anyone have any thoughts??
Thanks,
Steve Nowak
F26083
'78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V10877
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Steve Nowak
F26083
'78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101877
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65283 is a reply to message #65282] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 11:15  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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It has no effect. If you use the correct size tires, the revolutions per mile on the new 16's are the same as your old 16.5 tires.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65286 is a reply to message #65282] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 12:12 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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here is some info
http://gmcmotorhome.info/tires.html
gene
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:06 AM, fluffyms <fluffyms@juno.com> wrote:
> Am having a mind freeze....(which seems to be occurring more frequently
> lately (lol).
>
> My coach is currently running on 16.5" radials, with the original steel
> wheels.
>
> Sometime real soon, I plan to get either the Alcoa's or Eagle's,. Haven't
> really decided which although it's my understanding that Jim K. will have
> Eagle's "on sale" during the month of December.
>
> Anyway, my question is - Going to a 16" wheel/tire, from a 16.5", how will
> that effect the speedometer reading???
>
> I should know this, but as I said earlier, I'm having a mind freeze.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts??
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Nowak
> F26083
> '78 Royale Center Kitchen
> TZE368V10877
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65300 is a reply to message #65286] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 14:46 |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
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I have a question for some of you guys who have been here a long while. Any one heard of guys going to 9.5 x 16.5 tires?
"The new direction is to use 16 inch wheels" Was the old "new" to use larger tires to try for better mileage?
I am looking at a Palm Beach with 9.? something tires, 9.5 I think. Both the middle and rear tires are just about touching the T skirt. I bet its a bear to get that sucker moving.
I also wonder why no one mentions going to a wider wheel, availability I guess. Jim K mentioned one time he was looking at 17" wheels. Your favorite BFG TA's are available in 17" diameter. Sure would like some 17 x 8" wide wheels.
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65312 is a reply to message #65300] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 17:01 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Don,
Bigger is not necessary better. The larger 9.50-16.5 E tire was a
larger size that did fit closely. As you go up in tire size you
affect your final drive ratio. The 3.07 gear is marginal for
everything except flat land driving. If you have the 9.50 tire on the
coach your ratio becomes a 2.98. The 8.75 tire was the stock size
that kept the ratio at 3.07 and 225/75R16E tire is a 3.06. I drove
the 3.07 for 1 year and it was a real dog and then switched to a Jim K
3.55. Really wakes the coach up. I run a 225 ragwall tire on the
drive axels and the new G147 all steel on the back. I have run all
steel, all ragwall and a combo of ragwall on the front and all steel
on the back. The all ragwall and the ragwall/steel combo rode the
best with the all steel the worst of the ride and steering. As for
brands everyone has there favorite. I have BF Goodrich Commercial T/A
on the 77 with balance beads and it is a great ride and steers great.
The 75 has the Goodyear LT225/75R16 LRE Wrangler HT ragwalls on the
front and the Goodyear G147 All steel on the back. It has no road
miles yet as the tire on cart. Most of the tire makers can supply an
acceptable tire that will work well with the coach, the choice is yours.
Here is the tire size drive ratio chart:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Brown_Drive_Tire_Ratios.pdf
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
TZE Zone Restorations
77 Eleganza Custom (For Sale)
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
>
> I have a question for some of you guys who have been here a long
> while. Any one heard of guys going to 9.5 x 16.5 tires?
>
> "The new direction is to use 16 inch wheels" Was the old "new" to
> use larger tires to try for better mileage?
>
> I am looking at a Palm Beach with 9.? something tires, 9.5 I think.
> Both the middle and rear tires are just about touching the T skirt.
> I bet its a bear to get that sucker moving.
>
> I also wonder why no one mentions going to a wider wheel,
> availability I guess. Jim K mentioned one time he was looking at
> 17" wheels. Your favorite BFG TA's are available in 17" diameter.
> Sure would like some 17 x 8" wide wheels.
>
> Don
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65393 is a reply to message #65282] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 12:42 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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fluffyms writes...
> Anyway, my question is - Going to a 16" wheel/tire, from a 16.5",
> how will that effect the speedometer reading???
The rolling diameter of one brand of 225/75R16 tires is 29.3", and
they will all be similar.
I tried to look up the rolling diameter of 8.75x16.5 tires, which were
the original size on the GMC, and I can't find any online tire
database that lists specifications for non-metric tires except for
high-flotation mud tires. Thus, I suspect it has become impossible or
nearly so to buy them. Your plan is a good one.
Nominally, the 8.75 tire has a 78% profile, so the rolling diameter
should be 30". That's 2.4% larger than the 225/75R16 tires--within
normal error range of the speedo anyway. The 245/75R16 tires are about
the same error in the other direction.
Rick "who has seen both 225 and 245 tires on GMCs, but most go with
225" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65395 is a reply to message #65284] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 12:50 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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Roger P. Gleason writes...
> I have a 71 GMC pickup with the original 16.5 rims and high profile
> tires like original equipment. The tires on the motorhome are a
> little over 1 1/2" shorter than the tires on the pickup.
That difference should be 3/4" in the diameter. You must have had
9.5's on your truck. The original spec for GMCs was 8.75. Their 30"
rolling diameter is .6" larger than the 29.3" rolling diameter of
225's.
> ...I checked the speedometer/odometer over this 100 miles finding
> the motorhome speedometer/odometer was registering 7% less than
> actual.
> I believe this difference is due to the smaller tire and wheel size.
My speedo read high even when I was running OEM 8.75" tires. The old
mechanical speedometers of that era weren't necessarily all that
accurate, and +/- 5% is pretty common. I had a '74 GMC pickup with
stock tires that was more like 10% high.
The difference in nominal tire diameter is about 2.4% between
8.75/78R16.5 tires and 225/75R16 tires. That will cause the speed to
read 2.4% higher because the tire is making more revolutions in the
same distance. 245 tires are off in the other direction, but might
have helped correct what was already an error in your speedo.
The 245 tires will fit and I've seen them on coaches. They are about
1.2" taller (overall), and will come about .6" closer to
interferences. But I bought 225's because I didn't really want to
increase my gearing.
Rick "but the 245's will increase ground clearance by .6 inches"
Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65396 is a reply to message #65300] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 13:02 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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Don Adams writes...
> I also wonder why no one mentions going to a wider wheel,
> availability I guess. Jim K mentioned one time he was looking at
> 17" wheels. Your favorite BFG TA's are available in 17" diameter.
> Sure would like some 17 x 8" wide wheels.
This actually has been discussed quite a lot, but it has been a while.
You need two things to go to a wider tire: A wider wheel and a wider
tire that maintains an acceptable rolling diameter and doesn't run
into things. Jim Bounds has wider wheels on the front of Larry, but
his source for those wheels was good luck, not anything that is really
repeatable. They can be custom-welded, but then you have heavy steel
wheels. To go to a wider tire at the same rolling diameter, you need
tires with a lower profile that still have the weight rating, and when
we discussed this a year or two back nobody could identify the tires.
Maybe they are available now, but I bet they aren't cheap.
I would not be a fan of going to 17" wheels. Frankly, I think a tall
sidewall provides more compliance and absorbs more road texture. These
low-profile tires look nice to the modern eye, but they are hard on
the fillings. And I'm sure I will offend someone by expressing the
opinion that a pickup truck with 22" wheels and a layer of what must
be solid rubber over them looks really silly.
Taller and narrower tires also provide better economy and better
traction in the wet with less likelihood of hydroplaning. Low profile
tires have more hysteresis in the sidewalls (unless you run them at
higher pressures) and make more heat when not being driven at the
limit of adhesion.
Those wide, low-profile tires sure are nice in tight corners, though.
That isn't exactly the GMC's design envelope, however.
Rick "who enjoys paying a fraction of what the big RV owners pay for
tires" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65399 is a reply to message #65396] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 13:10 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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My thoughts are that the taller sidewall is beneficial on the rear of the GMC, especially a 23 ft, as the relatively short wheelbase with the tandem wheel set-up puts a lot of side force on the tires when "parking lot" turning. If you want a visual, start a sharp turn when parking and while the front wheels are still are max stop the coach, get out and look at the distortion on the rear tires/wheels.
Dennis
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Denney <rick@rickdenney.com>
To: Don Adams <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 1:02 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tires
Don Adams writes...
> I also wonder why no one mentions going to a wider wheel,
availability I guess. Jim K mentioned one time he was looking at
17" wheels. Your favorite BFG TA's are available in 17" diameter.
Sure would like some 17 x 8" wide wheels.
This actually has been discussed quite a lot, but it has been a while.
ou need two things to go to a wider tire: A wider wheel and a wider
ire that maintains an acceptable rolling diameter and doesn't run
nto things. Jim Bounds has wider wheels on the front of Larry, but
is source for those wheels was good luck, not anything that is really
epeatable. They can be custom-welded, but then you have heavy steel
heels. To go to a wider tire at the same rolling diameter, you need
ires with a lower profile that still have the weight rating, and when
e discussed this a year or two back nobody could identify the tires.
aybe they are available now, but I bet they aren't cheap.
I would not be a fan of going to 17" wheels. Frankly, I think a tall
idewall provides more compliance and absorbs more road texture. These
ow-profile tires look nice to the modern eye, but they are hard on
he fillings. And I'm sure I will offend someone by expressing the
pinion that a pickup truck with 22" wheels and a layer of what must
e solid rubber over them looks really silly.
Taller and narrower tires also provide better economy and better
raction in the wet with less likelihood of hydroplaning. Low profile
ires have more hysteresis in the sidewalls (unless you run them at
igher pressures) and make more heat when not being driven at the
imit of adhesion.
Those wide, low-profile tires sure are nice in tight corners, though.
hat isn't exactly the GMC's design envelope, however.
Rick "who enjoys paying a fraction of what the big RV owners pay for
ires" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
orthern Virginia
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MCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65457 is a reply to message #65393] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 00:55 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Rick Denney wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 12:42 |
fluffyms writes...
> Anyway, my question is - Going to a 16" wheel/tire, from a 16.5",
> how will that effect the speedometer reading???
The rolling diameter of one brand of 225/75R16 tires is 29.3", and
they will all be similar.
I tried to look up the rolling diameter of 8.75x16.5 tires, which were
the original size on the GMC, and I can't find any online tire
database that lists specifications for non-metric tires except for
high-flotation mud tires. Thus, I suspect it has become impossible or
nearly so to buy them. Your plan is a good one.
Nominally, the 8.75 tire has a 78% profile, so the rolling diameter
should be 30". That's 2.4% larger than the 225/75R16 tires--within
normal error range of the speedo anyway. The 245/75R16 tires are about
the same error in the other direction.
Rick "who has seen both 225 and 245 tires on GMCs, but most go with
225" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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Rick,
I read somewhere that the revolutions per mile on the 8.75 16.5" tire was 719. The number for 225/75R16 is 710. If the 719 number is correct then the 16.5" tire we used was really slightly smaller in diameter than the 16" tires we are now using on the Alcoa and Eagle wheels.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65459 is a reply to message #65457] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 02:19 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken Burton writes...
> I read somewhere that the revolutions per mile on the 8.75 16.5"
> tire was 719. The number for 225/75R16 is 710. If the 719 number
> is correct then the 16.5" tire we used was really slightly smaller
> in diameter than the 16" tires we are now using on the Alcoa and Eagle wheels.
I recall such numnbers, too, but I can't confirm them. One
manufacturer's tire specification reported 689 revoluations/mile for
their 225/75R16, with a rolling diameter of 29.3" (which is nearly
exactly the nominal size of a tire with a 225mm section, a 75%
profile, and a 16" wheel). The nominal rolling diameter of an 8.75"
tire (78% profile) is 30.15", with 669 revolutions per mile.
The revolutions per mile will always be a little higher because the
deformation of the tire decreases its rolling diameter slightly. But
the relative values should be the same.
For any given tire product, it could vary one way or the other by a
percentage point or two, I would think.
Rick "checkig his arithmetic" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65460 is a reply to message #65459] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 05:53 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Just for a bit of info whilst hoping my memory
hasn't gone away on this subject.
In the tire numbering system such as 225/75R16,
the 225 is the width in millimeters, the 75 is
the ratio (in percentage) of height of the tire
to its width, the R means radial construction,
and the 16 is the wheel diameter in inches.
Older numbering system had the first number in
inches, i.e., 6.70 x 15, etc. If the height/
width factor had been on those tires, it would
probably have been between 80 and 90, perhaps
even as much as 100 for truck tires.
In other words, the larger the second number,
the "taller" the tire is for any diameter and,
of course, vice versa. All other characteristics
being the same, the taller tires tend to give a
smoother ride and the shorter tires tend to give
more precise and stable handling.
D C "Mac" Macdonald
USAF, Retired
Ham Callsign - K2GKK
Oklahoma City, OK
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65461 is a reply to message #65459] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 06:00 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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If you are talking about tire diameter effect on your speedometer, let me throw in another wrinkle-- I am seeing a rather large range of differences in speedometer readings due to weak springs in the speedo head. The years are taking it's toll on our hardware so having an "accurate" speedometer is pretty difficult to have. You can tell you have a spring issue if you compare the speedo to a GPS readout at different speeds. My reading has a 3 MPH difference at 40 MPH and a 10 MPH difference at 65 MPH. Seems that the higher the speed the more off the speedo is. Seems like that would not be a factor of a constant ratio rather the head itself. Right now, the speedo simply fills the hole and gives me a relative speed when I do not connect up my GPS, for actual speeds I have to say the GPS does the trick so don;t go through a huge amount of expense and time trying to calibrate your 30+ ear old speedometer, it is probably going to change next month!
Jim Bounds
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----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Denney <rick@rickdenney.com>
To: Ken Burton <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 3:19:16 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tires
Ken Burton writes...
> I read somewhere that the revolutions per mile on the 8.75 16.5"
> tire was 719. The number for 225/75R16 is 710. If the 719 number
> is correct then the 16.5" tire we used was really slightly smaller
> in diameter than the 16" tires we are now using on the Alcoa and Eagle wheels.
I recall such numnbers, too, but I can't confirm them. One
manufacturer's tire specification reported 689 revoluations/mile for
their 225/75R16, with a rolling diameter of 29.3" (which is nearly
exactly the nominal size of a tire with a 225mm section, a 75%
profile, and a 16" wheel). The nominal rolling diameter of an 8.75"
tire (78% profile) is 30.15", with 669 revolutions per mile.
The revolutions per mile will always be a little higher because the
deformation of the tire decreases its rolling diameter slightly. But
the relative values should be the same.
For any given tire product, it could vary one way or the other by a
percentage point or two, I would think.
Rick "checkig his arithmetic" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65494 is a reply to message #65489] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 09:17 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| rgleas wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 09:56 |
You also need to keep in mind that GPS measures from hill top to hill top while the land speed will be different. This is an over dramatizaiton to make the point of how GPS works but it will be a factor in some areas as opposet to others.
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So you are saying GPS is as "the crow flies"?? Maybe that is why it says the barn is one block down on the other side of the street.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tires [message #65502 is a reply to message #65459] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 09:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Rick Denney wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 02:19 |
Ken Burton writes...
> I read somewhere that the revolutions per mile on the 8.75 16.5"
> tire was 719. The number for 225/75R16 is 710. If the 719 number
> is correct then the 16.5" tire we used was really slightly smaller
> in diameter than the 16" tires we are now using on the Alcoa and Eagle wheels.
I recall such numnbers, too, but I can't confirm them. One
manufacturer's tire specification reported 689 revoluations/mile for
their 225/75R16, with a rolling diameter of 29.3" (which is nearly
exactly the nominal size of a tire with a 225mm section, a 75%
profile, and a 16" wheel). The nominal rolling diameter of an 8.75"
tire (78% profile) is 30.15", with 669 revolutions per mile.
The revolutions per mile will always be a little higher because the
deformation of the tire decreases its rolling diameter slightly. But
the relative values should be the same.
For any given tire product, it could vary one way or the other by a
percentage point or two, I would think.
Rick "checkig his arithmetic" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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I got the 710 figure by looking up BF Goodrich Commercial TAs on Tire Rack's web site.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] GPS Accuracy (was: Tires) [message #65508 is a reply to message #65497] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 10:07 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| k2gkk wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 10:21 |
The coordinates, if shown, are probably quite accurate.
The problem lies in the accuracy of the mapping program.
D C "Mac" Macdonald
Oklahoma City, OK
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Sir: I am not real "savy" on a lot of these new fangled thingies. I know that thanks to my wife and a good friend from downunder I have 2 GPS. One is a Commercial unit for big truck and one is a tourist type. They give different locations from the same place? Which is even different from Google or MSN.. Makes me think there might be a reason for me not knowing where I`m at most of the time??
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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