Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65267 is a reply to message #65263] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 08:28   |
Rusty
Messages: 197
Registered: October 2005
Location: Philadelphia Pa
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I wasn't sure looking at this - but a few weeks ago on another ebrake discussion somebody said something about converting only the front set of rear wheels to disc - then using the rear set as a dedicated ebrake, since that axle does very little if any, braking during regular driving. 4 larger discs on the forwardmost wheels should be plenty.
Rusty
75 Glenbrook
Philadelphia Pa
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65268 is a reply to message #65267] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 08:46 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
Karma: 0
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| Rusty wrote on Sun, 22 November 2009 09:28 |
I wasn't sure looking at this - but a few weeks ago on another ebrake discussion somebody said something about converting only the front set of rear wheels to disc - then using the rear set as a dedicated ebrake, since that axle does very little if any, braking during regular driving. 4 larger discs on the forwardmost wheels should be plenty.
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Rusty,
Albert Branscombe has two kits that does this. I have the kits on my coach and they work great.
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65272 is a reply to message #65265] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 09:15 |
Carleton Douglas[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: March 2006
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I think you are on to some thing, need a backing plate with two
calipers and the link for the Chuck's new brake system all in one.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 6:59 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gene,
>
> Where's the rest of this presentation?
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31743
>
> <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31743>I'm wondering
> what restricts the shown mechanical caliper to maximum 3/8" thick rotors.
> And who makes it.
>
> A lot of folks have put a lot of thought into that idea, it just doesn't
> seem to have YET resulted in anything; I think it will.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Mr.erf ERFisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Am thinking, with these (made by TerryS)
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31742
>>
>> and these (from TSM)
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31743
>>
>> We might be able to make up a real DOT parking brake (all mechanical) that
>> uses the existing cables, and brake arm.
>>
>> Simple and no *Rube Goldberg*
>>
>> gene
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65279 is a reply to message #65267] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 10:43 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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I keep reading this, and I understand the middle brake deal
but
there is more brake than panic stops.
I am an old engineer and I know work creates heat. When I drag my butt
down the grape vine in CA., or the Siskiyous, in Ashland, Orgn., I whip out
my digital temp gun and read the temperature of my disks, and they are all
the same temperature (Damm hot). So I know they are all working to slow
down the GMC. If there are 6 wheels on the ground, I want them all trying
to stop.
SO
I just cannot take off a good set of disk brakes to put on a multi-function
caliper that hangs up,and you have to remove to bleed, or the old drum
brakes that never worked, just to install a parking brake that I never use.
so
I am going to keep looking into the mechanical caliper using TerryS's good
work.
there is no more to the presentation, ---- that was all the farther I have
gone ;>)
gene
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 6:28 AM, Rusty <gmc@bauerlein.com> wrote:
>
>
> I wasn't sure looking at this - but a few weeks ago on another ebrake
> discussion somebody said something about converting only the front set of
> rear wheels to disc - then using the rear set as a dedicated ebrake, since
> that axle does very little if any, braking during regular driving. 4 larger
> discs on the forwardmost wheels should be plenty.
> --
> Rusty
> 75 Glenbrook
> Philadelphia Pa
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65294 is a reply to message #65267] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 13:33 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Rusty,
Double Trouble came with Caddy Eldorado brakes on the rear bogies. The
rearmost calipers had the arms for the parking brake but the tabs for the
cables were cut off the backing plates. It didn't even have line lock.
The general consensus on the GMCnet was that those calipers were a PITA to
keep adjusted properly and even if they were adjusted properly didn't work
worth a damn. Plus Emery noted that one of his had stuck and burned out. I
decided the best way to proceed was to have Ken Frey convert the rear disks
to drums because to get Double Trouble registered in PA or NJ it had to have
a mechanical emergency brake.
I realize that better brakes is always a good idea but being a motorcyclist
for forty odd years has honed my defensive driving skills to a very sharp
edge and that's the way I drive the GMC. I approach intersections with
extreme caution and care and leave HEAPS of space between myself and the
vehicle in front of me. So far so good!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rusty
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 1:28 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake
I wasn't sure looking at this - but a few weeks ago on another ebrake
discussion somebody said something about converting only the front set of
rear wheels to disc - then using the rear set as a dedicated ebrake, since
that axle does very little if any, braking during regular driving. 4 larger
discs on the forwardmost wheels should be plenty.
--
Rusty
75 Glenbrook
Philadelphia Pa
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65298 is a reply to message #65263] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 14:13 |
Rusty
Messages: 197
Registered: October 2005
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Karma: 0
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I hear you Rob by the way how are things cruising into summer down there you lucky dog. My rear brakes are still OEM. In general my brakes work fine. We have no grapevine out here, but I have had a couple panic stops where I know my brakes wont lock up and once if I hadnt had the brake buddy on I would have hit the lady in front who stopped short.
So. Is locking up the brakes a good brake test? I would eventually like to have the larger discs and calipers up front, and move from drum to disc on the middle axle. And yes I would like "better brakes" or at least a little more safety margin.
Far as driving, yeah, defensively is the name of the game. If I do go down a hill, which I have coming back from Penn State on 322 , I just keep the speed of the coach way down and constantly scan ahead for plan B. I drive the coach not unlike I fly a plane - always stay ahead of everything. But having better brakes wouldnt so much be for me, as it would be for all the idiots I have to share the road with.
Rusty
75 Glenbrook
Philadelphia Pa
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65305 is a reply to message #65294] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 16:13 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rusty,
There is ample braking using the 11" rotor and a 80mm caliper for the
middle wheels.
The major problem with the 12" roter system is that the hub is highly
modified to the point that should you develop problems with them, then
your dependent on one supplier that is not available full time.
Our brake test have proven that the 11" is all you need with a 80mm.
Using drums in the rear with the disc in my book seems little awkward
as the drums tend to overheat considerably more and not aid the
overall rear breaking.Also the drum system does not hold very well in
reverse as the shoes are designed to wedge only on forward.
We have few people working on the mechanical parking brakes and also a
foot actuated system. We have supplied almost hundred of these kits so
we know that we want to make a mechanical parking available that works
well.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Rusty,
>
> Double Trouble came with Caddy Eldorado brakes on the rear bogies. The
> rearmost calipers had the arms for the parking brake but the tabs for the
> cables were cut off the backing plates. It didn't even have line lock.
>
> The general consensus on the GMCnet was that those calipers were a PITA to
> keep adjusted properly and even if they were adjusted properly didn't work
> worth a damn. Plus Emery noted that one of his had stuck and burned out. I
> decided the best way to proceed was to have Ken Frey convert the rear disks
> to drums because to get Double Trouble registered in PA or NJ it had to have
> a mechanical emergency brake.
>
> I realize that better brakes is always a good idea but being a motorcyclist
> for forty odd years has honed my defensive driving skills to a very sharp
> edge and that's the way I drive the GMC. I approach intersections with
> extreme caution and care and leave HEAPS of space between myself and the
> vehicle in front of me. So far so good!
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rusty
> Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 1:28 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake
>
> I wasn't sure looking at this - but a few weeks ago on another ebrake
> discussion somebody said something about converting only the front set of
> rear wheels to disc - then using the rear set as a dedicated ebrake, since
> that axle does very little if any, braking during regular driving. 4 larger
> discs on the forwardmost wheels should be plenty.
> --
> Rusty
> 75 Glenbrook
> Philadelphia Pa
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65436 is a reply to message #65398] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 21:50 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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To get the 4 wheels to work effectivly is not easy.
I have a friend in Ohio that has 4 Eldoado rear calipers in the rear
using the Branscome cable system. It seem to be working, but not yet
have the bugs out.
They give good braking, but not as much ar the 80mm as the Eldo ones are 65mm.
Chuck A is also working on the parking with the Eldo caliper.
Hopefully, we will have a kit ir kits that will help come up with a
all disc unit with mechanical parking brakes.
For those of you that are not keeping up with the price on the
Branscome unit, the base unit is $525plus the power actuatotor $575.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Terry,
>
> I have agreed with you about an additional "secondary" braking system from the time we talked at a SOOR about 5 years ago. Â But why only the middle brakes? Â All four rear sounds better to me! Â :)
>
> Do you have a date for the next pasture rally? Â With the changes at work I should be able to get some time off. Â I don NOT expect it anytime real soon... This time of year isn't the best to drive a GMC into a pasture in the the Great North WeT. Â (But if someone could find a large "mostly empty" barn or hanger.... )
>
> Terry Skinner wrote on Sun, 22 November 2009 07:14
>> ... I keep messing around with a completely separate hydraulic system on the middle "axle" where it would have the most effect on slowing my GMC down.
>>
>> << snipped >>
>>
>> PS For those that have never attended a pasture rally Saturday
>> afternoon I put a heavy table out in the middle and we take turns
>> discussing what we think will improve the component.
>
> --
> Mike Miller
> `73 26' X Painted D.
> `78 23' Birchaven
> Hillsboro, OR
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65450 is a reply to message #65436] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 23:21 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| jimk wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 21:50 |
To get the 4 wheels to work effectivly is not easy.
I have a friend in Ohio that has 4 Eldoado rear calipers in the rear
using the Branscome cable system. It seem to be working, but not yet
have the bugs out.
They give good braking, but not as much ar the 80mm as the Eldo ones are 65mm.
Chuck A is also working on the parking with the Eldo caliper.
Hopefully, we will have a kit ir kits that will help come up with a
all disc unit with mechanical parking brakes.
For those of you that are not keeping up with the price on the
Branscome unit, the base unit is $525plus the power actuatotor $575.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
|
JimK - just as a comparison, what is the cost of the 5 OEM style PBrake cables that the Branscome setup replaces?
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65456 is a reply to message #65436] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 00:43 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I agree that getting four mechanical brakes to work together is MUCH more difficult to get right than two.
BUT ...
Terry is talking about is a completely separate HYDRAULIC system to run along side of a four wheel rear disk system. With an additional petal, master cylinder, brake lines and calipers.
SO... adding two more wheels would be a tee, caliper and a short section of line for each side... along with two more of the custom "plates," brackets or whatever you call the things that hold the calipers.
As Terry seems to know much more than me,  I am just wondering if there was a reason to stay with only two wheels.
| jimk wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 19:50 |
To get the 4 wheels to work effectivly is not easy. ... snipped ...
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
... snipped ...
> But why only the middle brakes? Â All four rear sounds better to me! Â 
... snipped ...
> Terry Skinner wrote on Sun, 22 November 2009 07:14
>> ... I keep messing around with a completely separate hydraulic system on the middle "axle" where it would have the most effect on slowing my GMC down.
... also snipped ...
|
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65626 is a reply to message #65456] |
Wed, 25 November 2009 10:00 |
Terry Skinner
Messages: 379
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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My plan is to activate the emergency master cylinder with the
emergency brake cable. This master cylinder would be mounted about two
feet forward of the rear wheels on the outside of the left frame rail.
Plenty of existing holes already drilled in the frame to use for
mounting. The cable would pull on a lever that would activate the
master cylinder totally separate from the regular brakes. In other
words a true emergency brake, not a parking brake. I will dig it out
and post some pictures after Thanksgiving. Right now I gotta go get
"her" some potatoes...........Terry
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I agree that getting four mechanical brakes to work together is MUCH more difficult to get right than two.
>
> BUT ...
>
> Terry is talking about is a completely separate HYDRAULIC system to run along side of a four wheel rear disk system. With an additional petal, master cylinder, brake lines and calipers.
>
> SO... adding two more wheels would be a tee, caliper and a short section of line for each side... along with two more of the custom "plates," brackets or whatever you call the things that hold the calipers.
>
> As Terry seems to know much more than me, :p I am just wondering if there was a reason to stay with only two wheels.
>
> jimk wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 19:50
>> To get the 4 wheels to work effectivly is not easy. ... snipped ...
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ... snipped ...
>> > But why only the middle brakes? Â All four rear sounds better to me! Â :)
>> ... snipped ...
>>
>> > Terry Skinner wrote on Sun, 22 November 2009 07:14
>> >> ... I keep messing around with a completely separate hydraulic system on the middle "axle" where it would have the most effect on slowing my GMC down.
>> ... also snipped ...
>
>
> --
> Mike Miller
> `73 26' X Painted D.
> `78 23' Birchaven
> Hillsboro, OR
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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>
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mechanical disk parking brake [message #65656 is a reply to message #65626] |
Wed, 25 November 2009 15:09 |
Carleton Douglas[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Terry, keep up the good work, my be you can make a kit for the
brackets, cables and tubing or you could make the drawing and sell
them.
You may need some kind of help with the pressure, an air cylinder to
get it and the linkage to hold it maybe.
We need some thing bad.
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Terry Skinner <gmcnut@gmail.com> wrote:
> My plan is to activate the emergency master cylinder with the
> emergency brake cable. This master cylinder would be mounted about two
> feet forward of the rear wheels on the outside of the left frame rail.
> Plenty of existing holes already drilled in the frame to use for
> mounting. The cable would pull on a lever that would activate the
> master cylinder totally separate from the regular brakes. In other
> words a true emergency brake, not a parking brake. I will dig it out
> and post some pictures after Thanksgiving. Right now I gotta go get
> "her" some potatoes...........Terry
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I agree that getting four mechanical brakes to work together is MUCH more difficult to get right than two.
>>
>> BUT ...
>>
>> Terry is talking about is a completely separate HYDRAULIC system to run along side of a four wheel rear disk system. With an additional petal, master cylinder, brake lines and calipers.
>>
>> SO... adding two more wheels would be a tee, caliper and a short section of line for each side... along with two more of the custom "plates," brackets or whatever you call the things that hold the calipers.
>>
>> As Terry seems to know much more than me, :p I am just wondering if there was a reason to stay with only two wheels.
>>
>> jimk wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 19:50
>>> To get the 4 wheels to work effectivly is not easy. ... snipped ...
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ... snipped ...
>>> > But why only the middle brakes? Â All four rear sounds better to me! Â :)
>>> ... snipped ...
>>>
>>> > Terry Skinner wrote on Sun, 22 November 2009 07:14
>>> >> ... I keep messing around with a completely separate hydraulic system on the middle "axle" where it would have the most effect on slowing my GMC down.
>>> ... also snipped ...
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike Miller
>> `73 26' X Painted D.
>> `78 23' Birchaven
>> Hillsboro, OR
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Terry Skinner
> 253-686-2624
> Roy. Washington
> '76 GMC
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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>
--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
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