Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Choke Temp
| [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64601] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 07:55  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Finally! I got the TroyBilt generator installed & running yesterday. It's
loud, but tolerable with no tailpipe yet on the new Onan muffler (the best
fit the local muffler shop could find for me). Today I'll verify by 'scope
that I've figured out how to rewire it from 120/240 @ 20A+20A to 120 @ 40A &
wire it into the transfer switch.
Question for Anyone: At what temperature do you think I should pull the B&S
engine's choke OFF? Measured where? I need at least a WAG before I order
temperature switches today. Since the choke is now manual, having remote
Start/Stop (which I do have working) isn't of much value. I've got to
figure out an actuator (solenoid or motor) and a temperature control to
operate it. I have no idea what temperature to use but without advice, I'll
probably use 140*F and experiment with distance from the exhaust pipe.
For the electric cooling fan I plan to use 140*F compartment temperature to
turn it ON at 1/2 speed, and 160*F for full speed. A 200*F switch will shut
the engine down -- the fan will continue to run as it's independent of
generator operation.
Wish I had a BASIC Stamp or some such (and proficiency programming it) to
control all this.
TIA,
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64602 is a reply to message #64601] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 08:18  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Ken,
Would a variable timer of some kind work?
I have no idea how it works but could you adapt the choke system off an
Onan?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Wednesday, 18 November 2009 12:55 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Choke Temp
Question for Anyone: At what temperature do you think I should pull the B&S
engine's choke OFF? Measured where? I need at least a WAG before I order
temperature switches today. Since the choke is now manual, having remote
Start/Stop (which I do have working) isn't of much value. I've got to
figure out an actuator (solenoid or motor) and a temperature control to
operate it. I have no idea what temperature to use but without advice, I'll
probably use 140*F and experiment with distance from the exhaust pipe.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64603 is a reply to message #64602] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 08:32 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Rob,
The OEM Onan chokes mostly quit years ago. Ted Stinnet came up with a
surplus rotary solenoid which was a great replacement. But Surplus Center
in Lincoln, Neb. no longer has them. I'm looking for something similar, but
will still need a control for it. You may be right that a simple timer will
suffice; that I can make from just an NE555, a couple of resistors, and a
capacitor.
Ken
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Would a variable timer of some kind work?
>
> I have no idea how it works but could you adapt the choke system off an
> Onan?
>
> Regards,
> Rob Mueller
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64606 is a reply to message #64603] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 08:52 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken, Great to see that you are still bending metal. You might take a look at the Propeller by Parallax. It has eight processors that can operate simultaneously. www.parallax.com
Parallex has an easy to learn high-level language "spin" or you can always write in assembly.
I was actually thinking that this could be used to control a digital dash, complete with event logging. A little beyond my reach, but a nice dream.
You could modify one of the stronger R/C solenoids to "pull/push" a manual choke under PIC control.
Tom Phipps,
75 GMC Ex-Avion
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64608 is a reply to message #64601] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 08:56 |
GMC_LES
Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
What is the coldest weather that you typically see with your coach? Unless
trying to start the genset in very cold weather, you probably won't need an
automatic choke.
Using a momentarily closed switch mounted in your control panel, you can
activate a 12v solenoid to pull the choke closed. Use a spring to pull the
choke open when the solenoid is not activated. This might be the easiest &
most reliable solution.
Your genset probably only needs "FULL" choke to help it start when cold. It
will most likely run OK right away without ANY choke, even before the engine
is fully warmed up. If the genset needs partial choke to keep it running
until warm, it would only be for the first 15-30 seconds, and you could
"assist" it by intermittent pressing of the remote choke button until you
hear the unit running stable without assistance.
If you decide to go forward with your plans, how do you intend to provide
for a partially open choke position(1/2 choke)? The engine will not run very
well if the choke is being held "full on" until your control system detects
heat and opens the choke up.
Just my 2 cents.
Les Burt
Montreal
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: November 17, 2009 8:55 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Choke Temp
Finally! I got the TroyBilt generator installed & running yesterday. It's
loud, but tolerable with no tailpipe yet on the new Onan muffler (the best
fit the local muffler shop could find for me). Today I'll verify by 'scope
that I've figured out how to rewire it from 120/240 @ 20A+20A to 120 @ 40A &
wire it into the transfer switch.
Question for Anyone: At what temperature do you think I should pull the B&S
engine's choke OFF? Measured where? I need at least a WAG before I order
temperature switches today. Since the choke is now manual, having remote
Start/Stop (which I do have working) isn't of much value. I've got to
figure out an actuator (solenoid or motor) and a temperature control to
operate it. I have no idea what temperature to use but without advice, I'll
probably use 140*F and experiment with distance from the exhaust pipe.
For the electric cooling fan I plan to use 140*F compartment temperature to
turn it ON at 1/2 speed, and 160*F for full speed. A 200*F switch will shut
the engine down -- the fan will continue to run as it's independent of
generator operation.
Wish I had a BASIC Stamp or some such (and proficiency programming it) to
control all this.
TIA,
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
No virus found in this incoming message.
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Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64613 is a reply to message #64601] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 11:40 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Les wrote:
>Using a momentarily closed switch mounted in your control panel, you can
>activate a 12v solenoid to pull the choke closed. Use a spring to pull the
>choke open when the solenoid is not activated. This might be the easiest &
>most reliable solution.
I like Les's idea a lot. If you've ever owned an outboard motor, this is exactly what they do, and may be a good source for the solenoid. I've started mine in the 30's and 40's, and normally, it's hold the choke on while cranking, and maybe click it on a few more times in the 1st minute or so of operation. The generator might take less choke, as it will go to governed (high) engine speed right away, whereas outboards are at just a high idle (and do strange things with spark advance). So, this might be a quick initial approach to see how it works.
Craig
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64616 is a reply to message #64613] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 11:59 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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that is essentially how this solenoid worked, It was on when cranking off
when not,
http://gmcmotorhome.info/generator.html#choke
use any solenoid you can hook up
gene
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Craig Lechowicz <
craig.lechowicz@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ken,
>
> Les wrote:
> >Using a momentarily closed switch mounted in your control panel, you can
> >activate a 12v solenoid to pull the choke closed. Use a spring to pull the
> >choke open when the solenoid is not activated. This might be the easiest &
> >most reliable solution.
>
> I like Les's idea a lot. If you've ever owned an outboard motor, this is
> exactly what they do, and may be a good source for the solenoid. I've
> started mine in the 30's and 40's, and normally, it's hold the choke on
> while cranking, and maybe click it on a few more times in the 1st minute or
> so of operation. The generator might take less choke, as it will go to
> governed (high) engine speed right away, whereas outboards are at just a
> high idle (and do strange things with spark advance). So, this might be a
> quick initial approach to see how it works.
>
> Craig
> --
> Craig Lechowicz
> '77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64631 is a reply to message #64601] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 15:01 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson writes...
> Question for Anyone: At what temperature do you think I should pull the B&S
> engine's choke OFF?
I'd do it with a timer. The starting procedures for all my power
equipment suggest full choke until it catches, half choke for a few
seconds, and then no choke once it is running smoothly. 10 seconds
ought to do it, but certainly before the Iota transfer switch engages
and applies load. My Iota switch waits about 30 seconds, so I would
make it less than that.
So, if you are holding down a switch until it catches, maybe the
switch could also engage the full choke (using the starter circuit),
and removing it releases it to half-choke, which runs on a 15-second
timer.
Of course, if you shut it down and then restart it, the choke will
cause problems. So, maybe use a temperature switch to prevent choking
a hot engine, rather than controlling the choke on a cold engine.
Seems to me that will make the choice of temperature much less
important.
Rick "watching closely" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64701 is a reply to message #64631] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 21:45 |
GMC_LES
Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal
Karma: 0
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One problem I see with linking the choke to the start button is that you
can't crank to clear a flooded engine. With a separate choke control button,
you can crank with or without choke, hot or cold.
Les Burt
Montreal
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rick Denney
Sent: November 17, 2009 4:01 PM
To: Ken Henderson
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp
Ken Henderson writes...
> Question for Anyone: At what temperature do you think I should pull the
B&S
> engine's choke OFF?
I'd do it with a timer. The starting procedures for all my power
equipment suggest full choke until it catches, half choke for a few
seconds, and then no choke once it is running smoothly. 10 seconds
ought to do it, but certainly before the Iota transfer switch engages
and applies load. My Iota switch waits about 30 seconds, so I would
make it less than that.
So, if you are holding down a switch until it catches, maybe the
switch could also engage the full choke (using the starter circuit),
and removing it releases it to half-choke, which runs on a 15-second
timer.
Of course, if you shut it down and then restart it, the choke will
cause problems. So, maybe use a temperature switch to prevent choking
a hot engine, rather than controlling the choke on a cold engine.
Seems to me that will make the choice of temperature much less
important.
Rick "watching closely" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/17/09
14:26:00
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Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64734 is a reply to message #64606] |
Wed, 18 November 2009 07:53 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Talk about making an old man feel even older & obsolete! I hadn't heard of
the Propeller -- imagine, 8 processors, I/O, video, RAM, ROM all for <$1 per
processor! Boggles the mind.
I downloaded the manual & read it -- mind you, I didn't say UNDERSTOOD it!
:-)
I'm afraid I'm 'way over the hill for tackling anything like that again. :-(
Thanks for bringing me a little up to date though.
Ken H.
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Thomas Phipps <tph1pp5@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken, Great to see that you are still bending metal. You might take a look
> at the Propeller by Parallax. It has eight processors that can operate
> simultaneously. www.parallax.com
> Parallex has an easy to learn high-level language "spin" or you can always
> write in assembly.
> I was actually thinking that this could be used to control a digital dash,
> complete with event logging. A little beyond my reach, but a nice dream.
> You could modify one of the stronger R/C solenoids to "pull/push" a manual
> choke under PIC control.
>
> Tom Phipps,
> 75 GMC Ex-Avion
> _
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Choke Temp [message #64748 is a reply to message #64733] |
Wed, 18 November 2009 10:19 |
 |
wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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| GMCWiperMan wrote on Wed, 18 November 2009 07:49 |
Wally,
I haven't found adjustable thermostats for the range of temperatures I
expect, 140*F-200*F. Can you suggest a source?
The door lock actuator is probably a better solution than a solenoid if I
can get around the complication of reversing the supply voltage.
Ken H.
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Wally Anderson <wallyand@aim.com> wrote:
> May I suggest adjustable thermostats and a power door lock solenoid.
>
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Johnstone supply has adjustable Therm-0-disc NO and NC for about $25.
http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/tabid/1783/default.aspx?product_group=1566
For the fan switch you could use a salvaged residential furnace fan control, the old ones were adjustable.
HTH
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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