Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser
| [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser [message #64595] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 00:01  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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I guess I think it is not good to not , not talk about, not understanding,
and not resigning , for no reason, about the new front bearing greaser. ;>)
I still have four knuckles to zerk or not to zerk and have been waiting for
the four current questions to be answered about this new tool, so I can make
my decision.
Now I know there are 10 of the new greasers, that have been purchased, so
someone must have used one and can give us feedback.
the three burning questions are still there:
1 Is it possible to get the area clean enough to not push dirty grease into
the rear bearing?
2 Where does the grease flow ? the little bleed hole (all of it?), from the
back to the ???
3 If you have to remove the hub and the retainer , do you also remove
outside seal?
4 Does the greaser press on the inside seal ( which might miss locate it)
or does it press on the bearing like the Lenzi seal tool does?
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3221/Dave_Lenzi_s_seal_tool.pdf
Not wanting to create non communication, but not willing to not discuss non
typical projects
Has any one used this tool?
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser [message #64615 is a reply to message #64595] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 11:51  |
dmumert
Messages: 46
Registered: December 2006
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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Hi Gene
I am glad you brought up this subject.
I don't understand why this, or the zerk, is a good idea. What exactly is
being accomplished?
Both Timken and NTN advise against over-filling bearings. I don't know if
that that is a problem at the speeds we run but it may be.
Timken information and calculators
http://www.timken.com/en-us/Knowledge/engineers/Pages/default.aspx
NTN Information
http://www.ntnamerica.com/catalogs.htm
I can only see three reasons for doing this:
1 - the original grease leaks out
2 - the original grease is contaminated
3 - the original grease is worn out
Both 1 and 2 above would be best handled by removing the bearings and
cleaning and repacking them.
I, for one, do not believe grease wears out in 25,000 miles, I recently sold
a pickup with 250,000 KM on the original bearings (156,000 miles), so I'm
pretty sure the grease is good for far more than 25,000 miles.
I also don't buy the excuse the bearings are overloaded, play around with
Timken's bearing life calculator.
The inner part number is LM104949 the outer is LM104911. Bearings specs are
here on page B86.
http://www.timken.com/EN-US/products/Documents/Roller%20Bearings.pdf
Bearing life calculator
http://www.timken.com/en-us/Knowledge/engineers/Pages/BearingLife.aspx
I am wondering if this is not another 80psi all steel tire exercise. I'm
wondering if a properly rebuilt set of knuckles and hubs is not good for
100,000 miles without any 'fixes'.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mr.erf ERFisher
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:02 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser
I guess I think it is not good to not , not talk about, not understanding,
and not resigning , for no reason, about the new front bearing greaser. ;>)
I still have four knuckles to zerk or not to zerk and have been waiting for
the four current questions to be answered about this new tool, so I can make
my decision.
Now I know there are 10 of the new greasers, that have been purchased, so
someone must have used one and can give us feedback.
the three burning questions are still there:
1 Is it possible to get the area clean enough to not push dirty grease into
the rear bearing?
2 Where does the grease flow ? the little bleed hole (all of it?), from the
back to the ???
3 If you have to remove the hub and the retainer , do you also remove
outside seal?
4 Does the greaser press on the inside seal ( which might miss locate it)
or does it press on the bearing like the Lenzi seal tool does?
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3221/Dave_Lenzi_s_seal_tool.pdf
Not wanting to create non communication, but not willing to not discuss non
typical projects
Has any one used this tool?
gene
--
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Dave Mumert
Olds, AB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser [message #64617 is a reply to message #64615] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 12:11 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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This is a real problem.
When I first got on the net (15 years or so) we were getting reports like "
GMC was driving through Coos bay, Or, with flames shooting out of both front
wheels"
Lenzi calls these the "worst seals ever made" or something like that.
So after we started recommending to grease the bearing every 30K , we have
almost eliminated catastrophic bearing failures (except for swollen brake
hoses;>).
*I can only see three reasons for doing this:
> 1 - the original grease leaks out
>
>
> Both 1 and 2 above would be best handled by removing the bearings and
> cleaning and repacking them.*
>
exactly, the problem here is, when you remove the bearings to lube them
(seldom are they bad) You virtually destroy ever rubber boot,seal, and
tapered joint (steering knuckles, ball joints) in the front end of the GMC.
Our vendors can handle this but the local shops cause lots of damage.
and
there are not that many bearing pullers available to do a good job removing
the bearings with out damage.
so I agree with your assessment, I just never want to remove the bearings
again (100,000 miles)
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser [message #64636 is a reply to message #64617] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 15:33 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Mr.erf ERFisher writes...
> This is a real problem.
> When I first got on the net (15 years or so) we were getting reports like "
> GMC was driving through Coos bay, Or, with flames shooting out of both front
> wheels"
> Lenzi calls these the "worst seals ever made" or something like that.
> So after we started recommending to grease the bearing every 30K , we have
> almost eliminated catastrophic bearing failures (except for swollen brake
hoses;>>).
I wonder if part of the issue with the seals is not having them
positioned properly to act as the appropriate face seal on the CV
joint stub axle. We have seen many pictures even recently of coaches
that are leaking grease out of this location because those seals were
set too deeply and don't contact the seal face on the CV joint.
Repacking every 25,000 miles might mask that problem. Refilling the
bearing at similar intervals might do likewise.
Rick "who visually checked the seating of that face seal when snugging
up the axle nut" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser [message #64638 is a reply to message #64615] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 15:56 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Dave,
Great input; I perused the info on the NTN website regarding lubrication and
learned a lot.
I've interspersed a few comments in CAPS in your original message for
clarity.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dave Mumert
Sent: Wednesday, 18 November 2009 4:51 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser
Hi Gene
I am glad you brought up this subject.
I don't understand why this, or the zerk, is a good idea. What exactly is
being accomplished?
AS I UNDERSTAND IT THE DESIGN OF THE INNER GREASE SEAL LEAVES A BIT TO BE
DESIRED AND EVEN IF POSITIONED CORRECTLY CONTAMINATION MIGHT GET PAST IT.
THE ZERK INJECTS CLEAN GREASE THROUGH THE SPACER, THROUGH THE INNER BEARING
AND FORCES IT OUT PAST THE INNER SEAL. IT ALSO WILL FILL ANY VOIDS IN THE
GREASE IN OUTER BEARING. NOTE THE OPERATIVE WORD ABOVE IS "MIGHT."
Both Timken and NTN advise against over-filling bearings. I don't know if
that that is a problem at the speeds we run but it may be.
I DON'T THINK THIS IS A PROBLEM CONSIDERING MODERN GREASE FORMULATIONS
ESPECIALLY IF YOU USE SYNTHETIC GREASE SUCH AS MOBIL 1 OR VALVOLINE SYN
POWER. NOTE THAT THE OPERATIVE WORDS ABOVE ARE "I DON'T THINK!" IIRC SOMEONE
DID SOME CALCULATIONS AND AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS THE WHEELS ON A GMC ARE TURNING
AROUND 750 RPM.
Timken information and calculators
http://www.timken.com/en-us/Knowledge/engineers/Pages/default.aspx
NTN Information
http://www.ntnamerica.com/catalogs.htm
I can only see three reasons for doing this:
1 - the original grease leaks out
2 - the original grease is contaminated
3 - the original grease is worn out
I AGREE WITH YOU VIS-Ŕ-VIS NUMBER 1 & 2 BUT I WONDER IF NUMBER 3 IS POSSIBLE
USING MODERN GREASES. SEALED BEARINGS RUN FOR YEARS WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS.
Both 1 and 2 above would be best handled by removing the bearings and
cleaning and repacking them.
AGREED; AS I UNDERSTAND IT THE PROBLEM IS THAT EACH TIME YOU DISASSEMBLE THE
BEARINGS THE BORE OF THE KNUCKLES AND THE SHAFT OF THE HUB ARE SUBJECTED TO
STRESS AND POSSIBLE WEAR OR DAMAGE AS THE BEARING RACES ARE REMOVED.
I, for one, do not believe grease wears out in 25,000 miles, I recently sold
a pickup with 250,000 KM on the original bearings (156,000 miles), so I'm
pretty sure the grease is good for far more than 25,000 miles.
AGREED; BUT IF YOU HAVE A ZERK FITTING IN THE KNUCKLES IT MAKES GREASING THE
BEARINGS SUCH A SIMPLE TASK THAT YOU CAN DO IT ON A YEARLY BASIS ALONG WITH
THE REST OF THE COACH. I CAN'T SEE WHERE IT DOES ANY HARM SO WHY NOT.
I also don't buy the excuse the bearings are overloaded, play around with
Timken's bearing life calculator.
AGREED; SIMPLE LOGIC BEGS THE QUESTION WHY WOULD GMC ENGINEER AND PRODUCE A
VEHICLE WITH OVERLOADED WHEEL BEARINGS?
The inner part number is LM104949 the outer is LM104911. Bearings specs are
here on page B86.
http://www.timken.com/EN-US/products/Documents/Roller%20Bearings.pdf
Bearing life calculator
http://www.timken.com/en-us/Knowledge/engineers/Pages/BearingLife.aspx
I am wondering if this is not another 80psi all steel tire exercise. I'm
wondering if a properly rebuilt set of knuckles and hubs is not good for
100,000 miles without any 'fixes'.
AGREED; HOWEVER, IF YOU NEED NEW HUBS AND KNUCKLES WHY NOT ADD THE ZERKS AND
MODIFY THE SPACERS TO BE ABLE TO GREASE THEM ON THE VEHICLE. WHEN DAVE LENZI
DID MINE IT WAS $60.00 TO MODIFY THE KNUCKLES AND SPACERS FOR EACH SIDE.
Dave
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Chuck's new Bearing Greaser [message #64639 is a reply to message #64617] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 16:18 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gene,
Sorry Mate but I ain't buyin':
"You virtually destroy ever rubber boot, seal, and tapered joint (steering
knuckles, ball joints) in the front end of the GMC."
I agree that to avoid doing so you must:
1) Use the correct puller for the upper and lower ball joints.
2) Use the correct puller for the steering tie rod ends.
3) Use the correct bearing puller for the bearings.
4) Follow the instructions in the GMC Maintenance Manual to remove the
knuckles and from the coach.
5) Follow the instructions for the particular bearing puller you have.
I agree that damaging the rubber boots is possible even if you have the
correct tools and follow the instructions. The outer wheel bearing seal
comes out easily after the retainer is removed and with a bit of care the
inner one can be removed also without damage. Personally I would replace
both wheel bearing seals as a best practice.
As noted in my reply to Dave I agree that the bore of the knuckle and the
shaft of the hub are subjected to stress and possible wear / damage when the
races are pulled off. However, cannot see how you could damage the tapered
joints as long as you followed the MM instructions to remove them and did
not over torque them on reassembly.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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