Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time?
| [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time? [message #62618] |
Sat, 31 October 2009 20:44  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Open for discussion -
Is it your feeling that with the addition of the EBL to a Howell fuel
injection kit that this is something that could be successfully
installed by the multitudes?
If you were to put fuel injection on a stock 455 would you still
block the crossovers?
I'll need to do something with my coach, as the idle is not
consistent and she sometimes diesels. It's either a Dick Patterson
carb, or fuel injection. The geek in me wants the new toy. The
cheapskate wants the carb.
Of course I'd grab an electronic distributer from a later Olds V8 to
complete the update if I go EFI.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time? [message #62625 is a reply to message #62621] |
Sat, 31 October 2009 21:16  |
Ron
Messages: 250
Registered: February 2004
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Ken..
I am most interested in installing the EBL Flash.. I am preparing to finally do mine.. Have had the kit since the group buy..
One question, I have a MAC instrument Panel with electric speedo.. Is the speed sensor that is used for the speedo compatible with the EBL?
Thanks for your help as always..
Ron
now a P.O.
Conifer, CO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time? [message #62634 is a reply to message #62618] |
Sat, 31 October 2009 21:31 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Larry,
You may have fired the first shot in the Fuel Injection / Carburetor wars!
JUST KIDDING!
I can give you some observations from both sides of the "front."
The Blue Streak has a Holley Commander 950 Four Barrel Fuel Injection system
sitting on an Edelbrock Performer Manifold with blocked crossovers; a MSD
distributor and ignition module. As we say Downunder "it goes like a shower
of s#*t!"
When I bought Double Trouble in the USA it came with a Carter AFB sitting on
a standard Olds manifold with un-blocked crossovers and a standard Olds HEI
distributor. I drove it from Harrington to Maine to Niagara Falls then down
to Orlando with out any fuel problems in the fall of 2008. I did not have
any vapor lock problems as it was the fall and temperatures were cool. I
changed to a Paterson Quadrajet at the COOP and it ran better from Orlando
to Houston. This year I installed a Paterson re-curved distributor and drove
it from Houston to Duluth and back and it performed way better. However, I
did have fuel vapor lock problems after sitting idling due to the hot
summer. I decided to block the crossovers before I put it in storage.
Naturally the Olds manifold was cracked so I wound up installing one of Gary
Rockwell's aluminum manifolds. Unfortunately I only got it done a day before
I put Double Trouble in storage so I can't report on how changing the
manifold effected performance.
I can tell you that it seemed like the distributor made a bigger change than
the carb. I guess that makes sense as the main difference between the Carter
AFB and Quadrajet is the size of the secondaries and most times you're not
running on them.
I did not record any mileage figures as Double Trouble because up until now
Double Trouble was a work in progress power train wise.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry Davick
Sent: Sunday, 1 November 2009 12:44 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time?
Open for discussion -
Is it your feeling that with the addition of the EBL to a Howell fuel
injection kit that this is something that could be successfully
installed by the multitudes?
If you were to put fuel injection on a stock 455 would you still
block the crossovers?
I'll need to do something with my coach, as the idle is not
consistent and she sometimes diesels. It's either a Dick Patterson
carb, or fuel injection. The geek in me wants the new toy. The
cheapskate wants the carb.
Of course I'd grab an electronic distributer from a later Olds V8 to
complete the update if I go EFI.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time? [message #62673 is a reply to message #62618] |
Sun, 01 November 2009 10:26 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I guess over the past summer I've posted alot of messages here about my EFI injection experience. It seems that either it works great from the start or there are issues with "off idle stumble and hesitation".
Could it be there are issues with some of the 20+ year old ECM's that Howell is using? Maybe... I don't think anyone with a great running system has swapped ECM's with someone with a poor running system to see if the problems follow the ECM or stay with the coach. That would be interesting to see.
All I can tell you is that I ordered the EBL system on a Monday. On next day I managed to get it working good enough that I felt confident to drive to Howell and have Troy look at it. Next morning (Wednesday) I was at Howell's first thing in the morning. Troy has always been great with trying to help me fiquire it out, I have nothing but good things to say about Howell's willingness to help. By noon and half dozen or so changes it was running pretty good... lot better than the carb ever was. On the way home it was doing the stumble/hesitation again.. but not as bad.
When I got back to my office about 3pm the EBL was there... I managed to escape the office and get back home with it. Within an hour I had the system installed (plug'n play). I selected the 454 Auto tranny Bin, flashed it into the EBL and started it up... Right off it was a different machine! Fired 'er up and she idled right down nice. Took it for a test run, no stumble, no hesitation, just like an EFI should. The Learn system is easy use, I had it learn mode before I left for the test run. I did a couple updates while on the test run... You don't even have to shut the engine off to do an update!
Next day I took it for a 120mile run to Frank Bormann's to have him change the Relay Arm (thanks to Dave Lenzi the coach steers much better). I did a Learn each way, it ran stronger with each update.
Next morning (Friday) we left for a week's holiday. The engine ran very strong, never an issue with stumble or hesitation.
Yesterday I installed the electronic controlled distributor. The engine fired right up and again ran smoother than before. I set the timing and took it for a test drive. Again there was a leap in performance!
I am a happy guy!
So as far as Carb vs EFI, let me say first.. I am an electronics guy.. I love this stuff. Also I grew up in the 60's & 70's on a farm and my dad also had a small courier business... I HATE CARBs!! I've fooled with them enough in the past, they should go the way of distributor points. Oh and take slot screws with them!!
So my vote is for the EBL all the way!
Now on the other hand if you hate the way your late model car runs and the fact it rarely needs service on the engine and loved the way your mid 70's car ran then stick with the Carb and points.
As for return on investment, well I don't look at the GMC as an investment. I have a GMC because its a GMC, its what I like, its my hobby. If you want a return on investment then put your money into Land, because its getting scarce and they can't make any more of it and it doesn't disappear.
Some people like their 30yr NTSC colour TV and don't see much difference in the picture on a HDTV flat screen, and that's fine. There are lots of techy stuff I don't have, or care to have, (such as an Iphone, I just want a damn phone.. and I'm in the business! I do have a Blackberry though). There are lots of places were technology doesn't belong.. ie. revolving doors! why does a revolving door need to be computer controlled!? I avoid going through those and use the manual doors instead.. while watching the poor people trapped in the revolving one. Anyone been to Vegas will know what I mean.
So all I am saying is I am now very, very happy with my EBL controlled EFI and ESC. I'm new on here so take my opinions with a grain of salt, but Ken Henderson experienced the same thing when he installed his EBL.
Oh.. did I mention I am very, very... very happy.. Ok estatic!
Best Upgrades:
1-Dick Paterson rebuilt engine
2-EBL System
3-Macerator
4-Dave Lenzi relay arm
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
[Updated on: Sun, 01 November 2009 11:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time? [message #62684 is a reply to message #62673] |
Sun, 01 November 2009 11:21 |
Ron
Messages: 250
Registered: February 2004
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Mr. Burns..
Nice write up.. I too am getting ready to take the plunge as you may have read earlier..
Was there much modification needed to do the electronic distributor? Do you have a knock sensor.. and if so what was that modification like?
In my case I expect a payback.. Not in $ necessarily but in improved performance.. My use is not at all typical.. I live at 9200 feet so almost every trip we take involves one of our beautiful miles long grades.. I often see <5 inches even zero when on a supposed flat area at altitude which is probably just a slight grade.. Now, I do tow a car and yes I do not let any grass grow under us.. But the altitude compensation portion of the system will well be worth the effort and cost.. My tail pipe will thank me..
Yes, My current set up with a Patterson distributor and a healthy Q Jet runs very well.. I have a 3" exhaust with a single muffler (Jim K) with an electric auxiliary Fuel Pump..
Anyhow.. I look forward to your answer..
Ron
Electrically challenged but can follow instructions!
now a P.O.
Conifer, CO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time? [message #62709 is a reply to message #62660] |
Sun, 01 November 2009 15:46 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
The engine FELT LIKE it ran smoother, accelerated faster; and had more
power.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard MacDonald
Sent: Monday, 2 November 2009 12:00 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time?
Rob, when you speak about the Distributor, what kind of improvement did you
see? Can you describe it or is it just a feeling?
My questions are prompted by the way my Coach runs which is very good. By
that I mean it is very responsive, push the pedal it goes, push it harder it
goes faster, no pauses etc.
Like most, I find it difficult to turn my head from new toys. I like fuel
injection over carbs but the FI that I have seen still uses the carb so I
have not been able to convince myself that it is/was a worthy improvement.
Now reading Kens thoughts on EBL I am getting interested. Just don't know
what all is involved in the conversion. This engine has less than 5000
miles on it, heck the paint is still nice. :lol:
--
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
76 Edgemonte
94 K2500 6.5 Turbo Diesel Silverado
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GMCnet mailing list
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Injection - Ready for Prime Time? [message #62724 is a reply to message #62709] |
Sun, 01 November 2009 17:53 |
Oldngray
Messages: 544
Registered: August 2009
Location: Punta Gorda Florida
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Rob, having read burns writeup methinks the combination of the mods is what makes these things sing. I believe my wish list just grew by three items.
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
Sold our TZE April 2015
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