Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH
| [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62053] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 08:22  |
tmaki
Messages: 200
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I know some on the list are diesel guys, and I've got a
question.
I have a 6.2 in my '84 14' GMC Vandura 3500 cube truck. I
don't run it much - until yesterday it hasn't been on the
road in probably a year and a half or more.
I start and run it for maybe 30 minutes every week or so -
high idle until the glow plug light goes out and the temp
gets about 1/4 of the way on the gauge.
Yesterday, I took it out to move some stuff, get fresh fuel,
and stretch it out a little. Early in the run, I noticed it
was pumping out what looked like a lot of blue smoke. The
blue-ish color might have been the angle of the sun. As the
engine got up to operating temperature on the freeway, the
smoke went away, and I didn't see it the rest of the time I
was running it. I went maybe 40 miles total, some of that at
65-70 on the freeway.
I've heard conflicting opinions about the care and feeding
of diesels. This is the first and only diesel I've ever
owned and I'm not sure what to believe. I've been told to
run it once in a while. Then I've been told to leave it sit
unless I can run it hard and hot.
So, my question is should I be running it occasionally to
keep things limbered up, or is it better to leave it sit and
only start and run it when I need to take it out on the
road? Would the blue-looking smoke that seemed to disappear
after a while be just a build-up of schmootz that never gets
burned off when I start and run it at a fast idle but never
get it up to full operating temperature?
It's a crusty old truck, but it gets the job done when I
need it to. I'm not sure how many miles are left in it. It's
probably gone around two or three times, but it starts and
runs fine. I just don't want to cut short whatever life it
has left.
Thanks for any advice. If there is a difference of opinion,
I'll decide which way to err.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62085 is a reply to message #62053] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 11:16  |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| tmaki wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 06:22 |
I know some on the list are diesel guys, and I've got a
question.
Yesterday, I took it out to move some stuff, get fresh fuel,
and stretch it out a little. Early in the run, I noticed it
was pumping out what looked like a lot of blue smoke. The
blue-ish color might have been the angle of the sun. As the
engine got up to operating temperature on the freeway, the
smoke went away, and I didn't see it the rest of the time I
was running it. I went maybe 40 miles total, some of that at
65-70 on the freeway.
It's a crusty old truck, but it gets the job done when I
need it to. I'm not sure how many miles are left in it. It's
probably gone around two or three times, but it starts and
runs fine. I just don't want to cut short whatever life it
has left.
Thanks for any advice. If there is a difference of opinion,
I'll decide which way to err.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
|
Toby: I had an 83 Suburban with the same 6.2 engine. I also had Mercedes Diesels for many years.
My 6.2 was a fair engine, not great but OK. The Standyne (SP) injection pump they used was not known for it's engineering excellence, and all Diesel Fuel is subject to growing grunk in it, when it sits for long periods of time. I had a Racor filtering system on mine, which was much better than the stock GM filter, and kept stuff from the injection pump. I had 220,000 on the thing when I sold it, and it still ran ok.
The extra blue smoke you saw probably is from just sitting, old fuel, cold and not well warmed up, and stuff like that. If it went away with miles, that is good.
I personally would never start any engine and let it run until just barely warm, and then shut it down, diesel or gas. like much we "know" it is an opinion, formed from long years of reading others ideas and thoughts on the subject. I am sure there have been some well documented studies done on the subject, but I am not aware of them. Most seems to be opinion, like mine.
I would put a fuel conditioner in the tank (an algicide) as you don't use it much. Other than that, I would just run it when you need it, and not do the start up and shut down stuff.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62095 is a reply to message #62053] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 11:56 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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reference tmaki on Wed, 28 October 2009 09:22
Toby,
Your write-up is not real flush with symptom information.
Is the engine kind of rough until it gets warm?
Does the truck run poorly until it is up to temp?
Is the fuel rate significantly higher than you expect?
If the answers above are mostly yes or you are uncertain then:
The situation you are describing best fits a combustion problem. It could be either a bad glowplugs or a fouled injectors and I would bet on the glowplug because you say the smoke goes away when the engine gets fully warmed up.
If either of those is the case, you have two choices (until CARB gets on your case):
a- drive it until it has problems that make it unserviceable,
b- fix it (more below).
The glowplugs are a common mode failure in this engine family and it is easily diagnosed. If you don't find a problem there, you would be well advised to find a diesel injector and pump service shop and let them clean and reshim the injectors. Buy new injector seals from them as they will have the good ones.
The smoke you are seeing is most likely to be wasted fuel. Diesels do all the control by the amount and timing of fuel injected. If you want more speed (crankshaft) the injection pump delivers more fuel (that's all there is). The Roosamaster pump and injectors used in that engine are not my favorites, but they are serviceable. The pump does not have very good loop-closure, but it is adequate of road vehicles.
The fuel injectors are very early pencil types with no bleed return and so are very sensitive to fuel fouling. If an injector pintle (the valve that closes the injector when not it is not injecting) gets hung up with coking, it will leak fuel into the cylinder and the injector pressure profile will be bad and that will cause poor atomization. That will cause the fuel to not burn effectively. When the combustion temperature comes to nominal it will (sort of) mask the problem.
You say you run it just long enough that it never warms up on an irregular schedule. That is just about what not to do. It is very difficult to warm up a diesel without putting load on it. The charge air can effectively cool the engine at low loads and there is no way to control the charge air inlet (it's a diesel).
You and it would be better off it you left it alone until you needed to use it enough to get it fully to operating temperature for at least 15 minutes. (The hard and hot wins my vote.)
Yes, it will blow schmootz (soot for English speakers) out of the exhaust, but that is usually a single thick black choking cloud that will issue on a power increase.
Those are my opinions and free advice is seldom worth the expense. I am a licensed marine engineer and how I ended up doing engine development in Detroit is a long (at least three beer) story.
Matt (the other 73 Glacier 23)
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62096 is a reply to message #62085] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 12:05 |
storm'n
Messages: 492
Registered: April 2007
Location: Ont. Can
Karma: 0
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Toby- Here's some more advice.
http://ca.mc880.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showMessage?sMid=0&fid=Inbox&sort=date&order=up&startMid=0&filterBy=&.rand=1568953735&mi dIndex=0&mid=1_278519_AMAlvs4AAVUVSue80QkpbHLG8Ug&f=1#_pg=showMessage&sMid=547&fid=Trash&filterBy=&.rand=1802339587&midInd ex=42&mid=1_331977_AMIlvs4AAYKtSud3fQnx0DUXFCc&m=1_328989_AMIlvs4AABMHSud5vwf2r2sApU8,1_329631_AMIlvs4AAX0bSud5vg1dO38J2ug,1_330328_AL4lvs4AAV u%2FSud66wJPggaebxs,1_330867_AMAlvs4AAFDuSud2OgJ9diP8nr0,1_331461_AL8lvs4AAT3bSud2PQhkc3kw%2BY0,1_331977_AMIlvs4AAYKtSud3fQnx0DUXFCc,1_332743_AL4lvs4A AWfDSud4sARMxCM3MJI,1_333531_AMMlvs4AAV98Sud5pw7sSwlNc4g,1_344486_AMElvs4AAJ8RSueeFA7NtGlSfng,1_334211_AMElvs4AAQAcSueB8whn436yMmk,1_334758_AL0lvs4AAK NnSueB8gvvpzoy%2Fuw,&sort=date&order=up&startMid=505&pSize=100&hash=3d2393c0cc13965b6782f9ad65e7ce2b&.jsrand=3000733
Can somebody show me in detail how to do tiny url?
tmaki wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 06:22
> I know some on the list are diesel guys, and I've got a
> question.
> '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62110 is a reply to message #62053] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 12:54 |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Certainly everyone has their own ideas, but my technique is to start the engine when I need it and shut it off when I'm done. In between it just sits there, whether for 2 hours or 2 months.
Run cold at light load a diesel can build up with fuel and oil in the cylinder cracks and crevices. Then as it gets hot all that extra gradually burns. Since it isn't injected and atomized at just the right time it mostly just makes smoke. A little stray fuel and oil will make a lot of smoke. Does it idle smooth and quiet after warmup? Then the injectors are probably okay. If the injectors are okay, it doesn't burn too much oil and you can get it started cold, then it is probably good to go.
Again, just my opinion.
Gary
________________________________
From: tmaki <tmaki@earthlink.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, October 28, 2009 7:22:22 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH
I know some on the list are diesel guys, and I've got a
question.
I have a 6.2 in my '84 14' GMC Vandura 3500 cube truck. I
don't run it much - until yesterday it hasn't been on the
road in probably a year and a half or more.
I start and run it for maybe 30 minutes every week or so -
high idle until the glow plug light goes out and the temp
gets about 1/4 of the way on the gauge.
Yesterday, I took it out to move some stuff, get fresh fuel,
and stretch it out a little. Early in the run, I noticed it
was pumping out what looked like a lot of blue smoke. The
blue-ish color might have been the angle of the sun. As the
engine got up to operating temperature on the freeway, the
smoke went away, and I didn't see it the rest of the time I
was running it. I went maybe 40 miles total, some of that at
65-70 on the freeway.
I've heard conflicting opinions about the care and feeding
of diesels. This is the first and only diesel I've ever
owned and I'm not sure what to believe. I've been told to
run it once in a while. Then I've been told to leave it sit
unless I can run it hard and hot.
So, my question is should I be running it occasionally to
keep things limbered up, or is it better to leave it sit and
only start and run it when I need to take it out on the
road? Would the blue-looking smoke that seemed to disappear
after a while be just a build-up of schmootz that never gets
burned off when I start and run it at a fast idle but never
get it up to full operating temperature?
It's a crusty old truck, but it gets the job done when I
need it to. I'm not sure how many miles are left in it. It's
probably gone around two or three times, but it starts and
runs fine. I just don't want to cut short whatever life it
has left.
Thanks for any advice. If there is a difference of opinion,
I'll decide which way to err.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62121 is a reply to message #62085] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 13:45 |
tmaki
Messages: 200
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rob Allen wrote:
>
>
> The extra blue smoke you saw probably is from just sitting, old fuel, cold
> and not well warmed up, and stuff like that. If it went away with miles, that is good.
That's what it did. I made a few hard accelerations and
watched out the mirror. The smoke was gone after running it
maybe 5 or 6 miles.
>
> I personally would never start any engine and let it run until just barely
> warm, and then shut it down, diesel or gas.
That sounds like good advice.
>
> I would put a fuel conditioner in the tank (an algicide) as you don't
> use it much.
I put in some Stabil some months ago. The packaging
indicated that it was okay for diesel. I use it in the gas I
keep in containers for my mowers to keep the sugar in our
10% corn syrup gasoline from settling out and sticking
everything together.
> run it when you need it, and not do
> the start up and shut down stuff.
Sounds reasonable.
Thanks Rob.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62143 is a reply to message #62135] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 16:01 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Norm,
What browser do you have?
Did review the tinyurl home page?
http://tinyurl.com/
Go down to "Add TinyURL to your browser's toolbar"
Drag and drop the the blue highlighted link to your toolbar.
To create a tinyurl all you do is click on the TinyURL link on your
toolbar while looking at the page you what to make the new link to.
The TinyURL page will pop up and show you the new tinyurl. Copy and
paste to your email.
J.R. Wright
On Oct 28, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Norm Bowker wrote:
> Sorry, I need more detailed instructions. I can't seem to make it
> work.
>
> --- On Wed, 10/28/09, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
>
> Go to:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/
>
> Also if you add a < at the beginning and a > at the end the entire
> path will be kept together.
>
> J.R. Wright
>
> On Oct 28, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Norm Bowker wrote:
>
>
>> Can somebody show me in detail how to do tiny url?
>> tmaki wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 06:22
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62147 is a reply to message #62143] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 16:10 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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excellent post, folks keep coming on here and saying the links don't work,
maybe this will resolve their problems
gene
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 2:01 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
> Norm,
>
> What browser do you have?
>
> Did review the tinyurl home page?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/
>
> Go down to "Add TinyURL to your browser's toolbar"
>
> Drag and drop the the blue highlighted link to your toolbar.
>
> To create a tinyurl all you do is click on the TinyURL link on your
> toolbar while looking at the page you what to make the new link to.
> The TinyURL page will pop up and show you the new tinyurl. Copy and
> paste to your email.
>
> J.R. Wright
> On Oct 28, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Norm Bowker wrote:
>
> > Sorry, I need more detailed instructions. I can't seem to make it
> > work.
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/28/09, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
> >
> > Go to:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/
> >
> > Also if you add a < at the beginning and a > at the end the entire
> > path will be kept together.
> >
> > J.R. Wright
> >
> > On Oct 28, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Norm Bowker wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Can somebody show me in detail how to do tiny url?
> >> tmaki wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 06:22
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62148 is a reply to message #62143] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 16:12 |
storm'n
Messages: 492
Registered: April 2007
Location: Ont. Can
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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IE 7. I don't know how to drag & drop Thanks for you interest. I would rather have a GMC than a computer. Yes I reviewed the page.
Norm,
What browser do you have?
Did review the tinyurl home page?
http://tinyurl.com/
Go down to "Add TinyURL to your browser's toolbar"
Drag and drop the the blue highlighted link to your toolbar.
To create a tinyurl all you do is click on the TinyURL link on your
toolbar while looking at the page you what to make the new link to.
The TinyURL page will pop up and show you the new tinyurl. Copy and
paste to your email.
J.R. Wright
On Oct 28, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Norm Bowker wrote:
> Sorry, I need more detailed instructions. I can't seem to make it
> work.
>
> --- On Wed, 10/28/09, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
>
> Go to:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/
>
> Also if you add a < at the beginning and a > at the end the entire
> path will be kept together.
>
> J.R. Wright
>
> On Oct 28, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Norm Bowker wrote:
>
>
>> Can somebody show me in detail how to do tiny url?
>> tmaki wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 06:22
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62149 is a reply to message #62148] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 16:13 |
 |
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
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|
I'll send you a note off net...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Bowker" <bowks43@rogers.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:12:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH
IE 7. I don't know how to drag & drop Thanks for you interest. I would rather have a GMC than a computer. Yes I reviewed the page.
Norm,
What browser do you have?
Did review the tinyurl home page?
http://tinyurl.com/
Go down to "Add TinyURL to your browser's toolbar"
Drag and drop the the blue highlighted link to your toolbar.
To create a tinyurl all you do is click on the TinyURL link on your
toolbar while looking at the page you what to make the new link to.
The TinyURL page will pop up and show you the new tinyurl. Copy and
paste to your email.
J.R. Wright
On Oct 28, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Norm Bowker wrote:
> Sorry, I need more detailed instructions. I can't seem to make it
> work.
>
> --- On Wed, 10/28/09, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
>
> Go to:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/
>
> Also if you add a < at the beginning and a > at the end the entire
> path will be kept together.
>
> J.R. Wright
>
> On Oct 28, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Norm Bowker wrote:
>
>
>> Can somebody show me in detail how to do tiny url?
>> tmaki wrote on Wed, 28 October 2009 06:22
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62187 is a reply to message #62053] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 19:15 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Start it and drive it. After it warms up drive it like you stole it. I don't think you mentioned how often you have changed the oil which has probably exceeded it's capacity to control pH by now as there's been a lot of fuel and H2O sitting in it. Yes as stated the road load is the key getting to op temp long enough to boil off that junk and then idle it for a min to temp stabalize and then shut it down.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC diesel question, but not MH [message #62194 is a reply to message #62187] |
Wed, 28 October 2009 19:48 |
tmaki
Messages: 200
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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John R. Lebetski wrote:
>
> Start it and drive it. After it warms up drive it like you stole it.
Interesting...maybe I'm being too easy on it.
> I don't think you mentioned how often you have changed the oil which has probably
> exceeded it's capacity to control pH by now as there's been a lot of fuel and H2O
> sitting in it.
That's probably true.
> road load is the key getting to op temp
That will be my new way of doing business. I'm newly
inspired to pay more attention to this thing. I've got all
the manuals for it, so there's no reason for me to be so
neglectful.
Thanks all for the info.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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