Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Intake Blank Off Plates
| Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61646] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 21:13  |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Folks, of those of you who have used Jim K's crossover blank off plates, are they worth it or do they just eventually burn out and potentially cause other problems? I was thinking of filling the port in the manifold, but at a later date. Trying to spend what I have where I really need to.
Thanks!
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61648 is a reply to message #61646] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 21:21  |
Ron
Messages: 250
Registered: February 2004
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chris..
I installed Patterson's block off plates when I did my engine overhaul... It's only been about 10K since but wouldn't do one without them.. I get much less fuel percolation and even the paint hadn't burned off the manifold. You should have seen the mess on the bottom of the turkey tray when I removed it..
I am an old Mo-Par and Studebaker guy and could not believe that GM built an engine with no Heat Riser to at least give some relief to the problem.. It worked as those of you who have experienced it know.. If the heat riser sticks open the chock would not come off..
Do yourself a favor and use them...
Ron
now a P.O.
Conifer, CO
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| Re: Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61652 is a reply to message #61648] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 21:37 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ron, Thanks. I think it's your photos I've seen of the crusty turkey tray. I was planning to use them. 10K mi sounds fine to me...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61663 is a reply to message #61646] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 22:11 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Chris,
I'm sure you'll get a response to your query from people that have installed
the plates. I was not so fortunate and wound up having to replace the intake
manifold as it was cracked.
I'm probably demonstrating an acute grasp on the obvious but I would
recommend that when you get the intake manifold off you have it abrasive
blasted and Magnaflux crack checked.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Choffat
Sent: Monday, 26 October 2009 1:13 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates
Folks, of those of you who have used Jim K's crossover blank off plates, are
they worth it or do they just eventually burn out and potentially cause
other problems? I was thinking of filling the port in the manifold, but at a
later date. Trying to spend what I have where I really need to.
Thanks!
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
77 Ex-Kingsley 455: The Engineer's Motorhome
Scottsdale, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61702 is a reply to message #61663] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 08:04 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Another mountain I climbed just to fall off the other side. I'm going to name some names on this one so hold onto your shorts!
Several years ago we found the intake crossover crack issue and I tried a process I wrote a story on my site about "intake on the barby". I found the crack thing and waht is caused, investigated the bast way to fix it-- down a path to a result-- and preheated an original cast iron intake in a Weber BBQ grill then had it welded. Worked pretty sweet and the motor is still working after several years.
Then though thinking harder to eliminate the problem because the more I looked the more I saw the problem in about every intake I pulled off I called Mondello, not talking to the man himself but his underlings they gave me their take on a fix-- they said "fill" the intake with zinc allow was the bomb so I follow guru's and started doing that till one day we pulled off an intake we had done this to and found the zinc had melted out! What the &^%%! How can this be!
I called around again and got input, the Mondello crowd now changed their story with me and told me I should be doing the block-off plate thing too. I looked at it like they just wanted me to send them more $, they would not admitt they told me to fix it one way and there was an unexpected result. hey, blank happens and I felt they should have admitted their roll in the issue and helped me-- OK , so another live and learn. The problem could have happened from a number of issues I discovered so not I had new data which I incorporated into my plan.
Now, I sand blast and magnaflux the original intake as you suggest-- look for issues and based on what I find make a decision to repair or replace the intake. Replace is to the aluminum one-- a vary good idea. Another option is to use SS blockoffs-- seems to work well in some applications. The key I feel is to investigate with the cleaning and inspection. I now have a process I use on every motor we build and it works well now for over 60 motors.
It stinks but you just cannot believe everything you hear in the performance auto industry, there are just too many ideas and ways to do things-- if you do everything they say I betcha the motor will NEVER run again!
What I found out! Good luck,
Jim Bounds
--------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 11:11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates
Chris,
I'm sure you'll get a response to your query from people that have installed
the plates. I was not so fortunate and wound up having to replace the intake
manifold as it was cracked.
I'm probably demonstrating an acute grasp on the obvious but I would
recommend that when you get the intake manifold off you have it abrasive
blasted and Magnaflux crack checked.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Choffat
Sent: Monday, 26 October 2009 1:13 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates
Folks, of those of you who have used Jim K's crossover blank off plates, are
they worth it or do they just eventually burn out and potentially cause
other problems? I was thinking of filling the port in the manifold, but at a
later date. Trying to spend what I have where I really need to.
Thanks!
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
77 Ex-Kingsley 455: The Engineer's Motorhome
Scottsdale, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61787 is a reply to message #61702] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 16:32 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
I chose not to fix my manifold because:
1) There was a huge crack between the secondaries
2) There was a crack between the one secondary and ambient
3) There was a crack in the base of the crossover
4) I didn't have the time to mess with it as I was prepping Double Trouble
for storage until next year's tour
5) I had taken a course in welding last year and when we got to welding cast
iron the instructor noted that it was very difficult to weld cast iron and
not have it crack again
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Bounds
Sent: Tuesday, 27 October 2009 12:04 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates
Rob,
Another mountain I climbed just to fall off the other side. I'm going to
name some names on this one so hold onto your shorts!
Several years ago we found the intake crossover crack issue and I tried a
process I wrote a story on my site about "intake on the barby". I found the
crack thing and waht is caused, investigated the bast way to fix it-- down a
path to a result-- and preheated an original cast iron intake in a Weber BBQ
grill then had it welded. Worked pretty sweet and the motor is still
working after several years.
Then though thinking harder to eliminate the problem because the more I
looked the more I saw the problem in about every intake I pulled off I
called Mondello, not talking to the man himself but his underlings they gave
me their take on a fix-- they said "fill" the intake with zinc allow was the
bomb so I follow guru's and started doing that till one day we pulled off an
intake we had done this to and found the zinc had melted out! What the
&^%%! How can this be!
I called around again and got input, the Mondello crowd now changed their
story with me and told me I should be doing the block-off plate thing too.
I looked at it like they just wanted me to send them more $, they would not
admitt they told me to fix it one way and there was an unexpected result.
hey, blank happens and I felt they should have admitted their roll in the
issue and helped me-- OK , so another live and learn. The problem could
have happened from a number of issues I discovered so not I had new data
which I incorporated into my plan.
Now, I sand blast and magnaflux the original intake as you suggest-- look
for issues and based on what I find make a decision to repair or replace the
intake. Replace is to the aluminum one-- a vary good idea. Another option
is to use SS blockoffs-- seems to work well in some applications. The key I
feel is to investigate with the cleaning and inspection. I now have a
process I use on every motor we build and it works well now for over 60
motors.
It stinks but you just cannot believe everything you hear in the performance
auto industry, there are just too many ideas and ways to do things-- if you
do everything they say I betcha the motor will NEVER run again!
What I found out! Good luck,
Jim Bounds
--------------------------
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61793 is a reply to message #61787] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 17:16 |
klassic kampers
Messages: 93
Registered: July 2008
Location: greer,s.c./ellijay,ga
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I cut two pieces from a junk cast iron manifold and had them welded them in the crossover passage ports on the motor home manifold.................the reason being I thought the cast iron "plugs" would expand at the same rate as the manifold..............we left the weld a little "high" and then had the manifold surfaces machined............also welded up two cracks in the bottom...........five years and still going..............
Mike Stewart
1973 GMC 26' Canyonlands /
1973 B.S.A. B50 street tracker-----
Greer,S.C/Ellijay,Ga
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| Re: Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61795 is a reply to message #61646] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 17:46 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Jim B. I was wondering if that could happen, the Zinc melting, that is. Wow. Where did it go? out the tailpipe???
I am eventually going to do a full rebuild on this mill, but for now, just wanted to do a cheap quick fix since I was going to be ordering some stuff from Jim K I could just add a few more parts to the order...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61804 is a reply to message #61795] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 18:09 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Rick,
I saw some pictures of someone who took their manifold to a foundry and had
the crossover filled with aluminum. He did that because aluminum has a
higher melting point than zinc.
Zinc = 420 C / 788 F
Aluminium = 660 C / 1220 F
The following statement was copied from a website that sells exhaust gas
temperature gages: "most engines average 1400 - 1600 F @ Wide Open Throttle"
Demonstrating an acute grasp on the obvious:
It is better to fill the crossover with aluminum than zinc.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Choffat
Sent: Tuesday, 27 October 2009 9:47 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates
Jim B. I was wondering if that could happen, the Zinc melting, that is. Wow.
Where did it go? out the tailpipe???
I am eventually going to do a full rebuild on this mill, but for now, just
wanted to do a cheap quick fix since I was going to be ordering some stuff
from Jim K I could just add a few more parts to the order...
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
77 Ex-Kingsley 455: The Engineer's Motorhome
Scottsdale, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61823 is a reply to message #61804] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 19:20 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Rob
I tried to get a guy that had a small foundry in his back yard to fill mine with aluminum. He tried but it just spit back at him cause the manifold wasn't hot enough. I wound up filling mine with furnace cement. I notched the manifold a little and wire feed welded a plate on both sides. I made sure it was flat
then I notched out my 404 Mr Gasket intake gaskets a little and made a stainless insert for each side. This can't burn thru and is working fine.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61840 is a reply to message #61799] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 20:25 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Most of you are not understanding the main cause of the problem your
trying to cover up.
Lot of you are running with cheap car mufflers. When one side baffle
fails, the majority of the exhaust flows threw to the opposite side.
Not only are you creating a problem,but effecting efficiency of the
engine.
I have stood in front of group of GMC owners and expressed this.
You'll find that we examine the mufflers and visually look at the
intake for high heat signs by the head.
Keep in mind, we work on more units in a week then most work on in a
year so we are exposed to more and see more and read and discuss with
Pattersn,Sirum,Hampton,Bounds,Mendez------
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Bill Gagnier <carnutbill@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> I used the block-off plates 20,000 miles ago & I have no reason not to believe they are still there & working. My problem is I think my manifold is cracked through & I am sucking oil from the oil gallery & out the exhaust. About 1 quart every 200 miles on a rebuilt engine. I think I should have filled the manifold & used the block off plates.  bill  mailto:carnutbill@msn.com
>
>
> 75pb
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61842 is a reply to message #61840] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 20:31 |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I think you must have been looking at my coach :-(, I have all those symptoms, but the question is how do I tell the difference between "cheap car mufflers" and, well, whatever else should be there?
Gary
________________________________
Most of you are not understanding the main cause of the problem your
trying to cover up.
Lot of you are running with cheap car mufflers. When one side baffle
fails, the majority of the exhaust flows threw to the opposite side.
Not only are you creating a problem,but effecting efficiency of the
engine.
I have stood in front of group of GMC owners and expressed this.
You'll find that we examine the mufflers and visually look at the
intake for high heat signs by the head.
Keep in mind, we work on more units in a week then most work on in a
year so we are exposed to more and see more and read and discuss with
Pattersn,Sirum,Hampton,Bounds,Mendez------
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61848 is a reply to message #61840] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 20:41 |
Terry Skinner
Messages: 379
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Now that is the song I have been sing for quite a while. Throw away
both those mufflers up front and install one in the
back.............Terry
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Most of you are not understanding the main cause of the problem your
> trying to cover up.
> Lot of you are running with cheap car mufflers. When one side baffle
> fails, the majority of the exhaust flows threw to the opposite side.
> Not only are you creating a problem,but effecting efficiency of the
> engine.
> I have stood in front of group of GMC owners and expressed this.
> You'll find that we examine the mufflers and visually look at the
> intake for high heat signs by the head.
> Keep in mind, we work on more units in a week then most work on in a
> year so we are exposed to more and see more and read and discuss with
> Pattersn,Sirum,Hampton,Bounds,Mendez------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Bill Gagnier <carnutbill@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I used the block-off plates 20,000 miles ago & I have no reason not to believe they are still there & working. My problem is I think my manifold is cracked through & I am sucking oil from the oil gallery & out the exhaust. About 1 quart every 200 miles on a rebuilt engine. I think I should have filled the manifold & used the block off plates. bill mailto:carnutbill@msn.com
>>
>>
>> 75pb
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Terry Skinner
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intake Blank Off Plates [message #61850 is a reply to message #61842] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 20:46 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I know Jim K has good mufflers. Summit has good mufflers Flo master for one. I use Walker dynamax they are less expensive and an excellent muffler I got them from Summit on the last go round and have been using them for 20 years.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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