Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] generator woes
| [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61216] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 20:15  |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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Well, looks like our onan 4K generator is toast.
Cranks but won't start, and has poor compression (80-90psi).
So, will anybody take these things for parts??
Know of any great deals on a really quiet replacement?
I'm in San Jose.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61227 is a reply to message #61216] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 21:13  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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I'm guessing the Onan is a model of quiet right now.
Larry Davick
(bucking for associate smart ass.)
Ljdavick at comcast.net
On Oct 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> Well, looks like our onan 4K generator is toast.
> Cranks but won't start, and has poor compression (80-90psi).
> So, will anybody take these things for parts??
> Know of any great deals on a really quiet replacement?
> I'm in San Jose.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1973 23'
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61317 is a reply to message #61216] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 13:54 |
MIGUEL MENDEZ
Messages: 179
Registered: August 2004
Location: Montclair, California
Karma: 3
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NO, NO, NO, I think you should take it to Jik K, he's closer but as for the 4 kw, i got one here at the shop that is a take out and a generac was installed so, if anyone wants it, please, come take it, FREE, BTW, is there any truth to the story i just hear that Honda is stopping the production on the EV6010?????
Miguel
1978 Royale Pain in the %$@, side bath w/ a 403 that i love.
GMC name : The other woman
http://www.mgmgmc.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61323 is a reply to message #61216] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 14:41 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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KB writes...
> Well, looks like our onan 4K generator is toast.
> Cranks but won't start, and has poor compression (80-90psi).
> So, will anybody take these things for parts??
> Know of any great deals on a really quiet replacement?
The bigger question is whether you can find a replacement that will
fit in your 23' coach at all. You can enlarge the compartment to make
decent replacements fit, but that will require surgery.
I replaced my oil-spraying Onan with a Generac Impact 36G. That
product is no longer available, and given the trouble that a couple of
us have had with it, I can understand why. But it was the only RV
generator that would fit in the 23' compartment.
Onans are finicky but really difficult to kill. They are worth putting
a little effort into making them reliable in a 23' coach just because
of the difficulty in making alternatives fit.
Rick "been there, done that" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61344 is a reply to message #61317] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 16:43 |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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| MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 13:54 |
NO, NO, NO, I think you should take it to Jik K, he's closer but as for the 4 kw, i got one here at the shop that is a take out and a generac was installed so, if anyone wants it, please, come take it, FREE, BTW, is there any truth to the story i just hear that Honda is stopping the production on the EV6010?????
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Miguel,
Jim Bounds says they are history, the Honda.
If I was close I would pick up that Onan for backup here at my home.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61379 is a reply to message #61216] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 19:02 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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I've been going through the Onan service manual section of diagnostics
for "cranks but won't start". The previous owner, for some reason,
put a separate switch on the the fuel pump. He also disconnected
the rectifier. He sure liked disconnecting things... :-(
With the bad compression, there's so much crankcase pressure that
it shoots oil out the dipstick tube. At $100/hour for gmc shop time,
it's simply not worth taking in for repair. If I can fix it reasonably,
I will, but it's going to require a lotta love to be anything but
200+lbs of oily ballast.
Meanwhile, I'm keeping an eye out for deals on used Honda generators,
like perhaps a pair of eu2000is... Or maybe I could find an appropriate
Honda engine to replace just that part of it, and keep the generator half.
No idea what engine that would be though, or how difficult the replacement.
If anyone has done this, please let me know.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23' ex canyonlands
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61381 is a reply to message #61344] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 19:22 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
The PO of The Blue Streak converted it to 240VAC 50Hz. For a generator he
bought a cheap Chinese one, removed the gas tank (fitted an electric fuel
pump) and cut the frame down so it would fit in the Onan compartment.
I just looked spotted an 8500 watt generator for $709 on eBay
(120475978886).
Seems to me that might be a way to go if it would fit in the Onan
compartment?
I would really like to upgrade to a larger capacity generator and set it up
so that I could remove it from the compartment and roll it a few yards away
from the GMC so we wouldn't have to listen to it droning on under Helen's
bed!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Gregg
Sent: Saturday, 24 October 2009 8:44 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] generator woes
Miguel,
Jim Bounds says they are history, the Honda.
If I was close I would pick up that Onan for backup here at my home.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
danandteri.blogspot.com
///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61384 is a reply to message #61379] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 19:34 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| KB wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 17:02 |
The previous owner, for some reason, put a separate switch on the the fuel pump. He also disconnected the rectifier. He sure liked disconnecting things... 
With the bad compression, there's so much crankcase pressure that
it shoots oil out the dipstick tube. ...
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1. Switch to the fuel pump is, most likely, a by pass to the circuit board. (My PO of my '73 did the same thing.) The fuel pump and points/coil are powered from the same place. This is OK for troubleshooting but the board provides several safety features and really shouldn't be left running unattended without a working board.
2. A disconnected rectifier would not keep the motor from running. It WOULD keep it from generating AC power.... Are you sure you are not talking about the regulator? (a box mounted near the fuel pump.) The regulator is used to charge the starting battery.. SO is not needed if you do NOT have a separate Onan starting battery. (My '78 23' doesn't need the one it has.) OBTW: The rectifier is mounted INSIDE the generator section.
3. Believe it or not, oil shooting out of the dipstick hole is normal. Both pistons on the Onan's hit top-dead-center at the same time. So the volume of the crank-case changes A-LOT when the motor is cranking.... Kind of like a pump or a bellows. The motor should NOT EVER cranked without the cap on it.
4. Like Rick says, finding a generator that fits in a unmodified gen compartment of a 23, THAT CAN POWER AN AIR CONITIONER, is very rare. If you find one... let us know!
5. Onan's are old, heavy normally oil leaking finicky trolls. But they'll put out more (and cleaner) power than a similar rated new generator. They are hard to "Kill." They also fit in the "Onan Hole."
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61399 is a reply to message #61384] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 21:20 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Karen,
On the 4KW Onan the dipstick has a strong rubber seal to hold it in place -- it can wear and allow the dipstick to pop out too easily. You may also want to check that the rubber hose from the breather tube to the carb is in good condition. One owner reported his had collapsed internally.
Compression may also imporve with some run time. Rings become loose after waking up.
Sometimes the regulator is disconnected when the starting bettery is commected to another charging source. See Duane's recommendation on Gene's site....
http://gmcmotorhome.info/list.html
If you have it running you are more than half way there -- don't give up on the Onan yet..
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC PD230
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 7:34 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] generator woes
KB wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 17:02
The previous owner, for some reason, put a separate switch on the the fuel
ump. He also disconnected the rectifier. He sure liked disconnecting
hings... :(
With the bad compression, there's so much crankcase pressure that
it shoots oil out the dipstick tube. ...
. Switch to the fuel pump is, most likely, a by pass to the circuit board.
My PO of my '73 did the same thing.) The fuel pump and points/coil are powered
rom the same place. This is OK for troubleshooting but the board provides
everal safety features and really shouldn't be left running unattended without
working board.
2. A disconnected rectifier would not keep the motor from running. It WOULD
eep it from generating AC power.... Are you sure you are not talking about the
egulator? (a box mounted near the fuel pump.) The regulator is used to charge
he starting battery.. SO is not needed if you do NOT have a separate Onan
tarting battery. (My '78 23' doesn't need the one it has.) OBTW: The
ectifier is mounted INSIDE the generator section.
3. Believe it or not, oil shooting out of the dipstick hole is normal. Both
istons on the Onan's hit top-dead-center at the same time. So the volume of
he crank-case changes A-LOT when the motor is cranking.... Kind of like a pump
r a bellows. The motor should NOT EVER cranked without the cap on it.
4. Like Rick says, finding a generator that fits in a unmodified gen
ompartment of a 23, THAT CAN POWER AN AIR CONITIONER, is very rare. If you
ind one... let us know!
5. Onan's are old, heavy normally oil leaking finicky trolls. But they'll put
ut more (and cleaner) power than a similar rated new generator. They are hard
o "Kill." They also fit in the "Onan Hole."
-
ike Miller
73 26' X Painted D.
78 23' Birchaven
illsboro, OR
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61416 is a reply to message #61379] |
Sat, 24 October 2009 02:09 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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KB writes...
> With the bad compression, there's so much crankcase pressure that
> it shoots oil out the dipstick tube. At $100/hour for gmc shop time,
> it's simply not worth taking in for repair. If I can fix it reasonably,
> I will, but it's going to require a lotta love to be anything but
> 200+lbs of oily ballast.
375 pounds. Ask me how I know. And yes to the oil spray, too. That's
why I got rid of mine. But what I replaced it with has not at all been
an unqualified success. I had to dismantle the Generac this year to
replace a faulty engine speed sensor (once I figured out that was the
problem). The control boards in the Generac are potted in epoxy, so
forget anything beyond a rudimentary trouble-shooting process before
getting into multi-hundred-dollar parts purchases.
> Meanwhile, I'm keeping an eye out for deals on used Honda generators,
> like perhaps a pair of eu2000is... Or maybe I could find an appropriate
> Honda engine to replace just that part of it, and keep the generator half.
> No idea what engine that would be though, or how difficult the replacement.
> If anyone has done this, please let me know.
A tethered pair of Honda 2000watt portables would be a good
alternative, if you don't mind having power only while camping and
after some setup. I wanted a generator I could while driving down the
road, if possible. In the end, I think it's cheaper to completely
recreate the dash air conditioning system, as Ken Henderson recently
did, to remove that requirement in the first place. If you are
rebuilding the compartment anyway, then build a different generator
into your plans.
Don't even think of trying to mount a different engine on the Onan
generator head. Rebuilding the compartment would be vastly easier.
Plus, the Honda-powered generators are designed to run at 3600 RPMs,
and the Onan Power Drawer runs at 1800. It would be easier to modify a
conventional emergency generator with all the necessary controls,
protections, and sound isolation than installing a different engine on
the Onan.
I'm not sure many with 26' coaches who have switched to the Honda
(where it fits easily) had 4K Onans, so those might be rather rare in
the take-out pile at the GMC shops. But Jim might have a 4K Onan
take-out that you could scavenge for parts, or even a whole engine. If
you are prepared to even contemplate using a different engine on the
Onan, then making something work from take-outs should be a piece of
cake, it seems to me.
Rick "noting that modern generators are designed for long, low
compartments" Denney
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1973 23' ex canyonlands
> _______________________________________________
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'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61422 is a reply to message #61416] |
Sat, 24 October 2009 04:36 |
Bob Raef
Messages: 165
Registered: July 2009
Location: Lubbock, TX
Karma: 0
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Karen:
I don't know how close you are to Miguel's but he has a 4kw at his shop for free. he replaced it with a Genrac. If you need parts that might be your answer. At least the price is right.
Bob Raef, KF5TYA
(575) 973-2273
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61443 is a reply to message #61226] |
Sat, 24 October 2009 11:16 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Gary, thank you.
Were down the street from Karen.
Karen call me and we can discuss the problem and see if we can get it
running without spending big bucks.
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since she is is San Jose (assuming Ca), I don't think I would send her
> to Miguel, when JimK is just a short jaunt away.
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Get in touch with Miguel. He can help you out.
>> Dan
>> --
>> Dan & Teri Gregg
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61459 is a reply to message #61216] |
Sat, 24 October 2009 12:32 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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Thanks to all here for the great ideas and suggestions.
Based on what you've said, I'll not toss this generator
into the scrap heap just yet. I'll keep working on it
and see if I can figure out what the trouble is.
Call it a "learning experience" :-)
thanks,
Karen
1973 23' ex canyonlands
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] generator woes [message #61462 is a reply to message #61459] |
Sat, 24 October 2009 12:42 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Karen,
Phone call is free, we spend hours on the phone helping people solve
problems. Sometimes when we reach our limitation, we refer you to
those that can better advise you.
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:32 AM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> Thanks to all here for the great ideas and suggestions.
> Based on what you've said, I'll not toss this generator
> into the scrap heap just yet. I'll keep working on it
> and see if I can figure out what the trouble is.
>
> Call it a "learning experience" :-)
>
> thanks,
>
> Karen
> 1973 23' ex canyonlands
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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