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| [GMCnet] Advice re. Draining Fresh Water Tank [message #60986] |
Wed, 21 October 2009 15:54  |
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Jim White[1]
Messages: 144
Registered: September 2008
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Filled up the fresh water tank for the first time in hopes of cleaning
out the system before attending a recent rally. While the pump come on,
it spits more air than water so I was just content to use the campground
water, except for drinking.
Now I'm trying to drain the tank and it doesn't want to drain. I read
the instructions in the manual, removed the fill cap, opened the
drainvalve nearest the tank outlet pipe, and the drain further down the
pressure line...drip, drip drip. Tried turning on the pump.....drip,
drip , drip. Not impressed with 40 gallons to go, I unhooked the water
line coming out of the tank (just past some funny looking device on that
line) and nothing.
Something is preventing that water from leaving the tank. Any suggestions?
Jim "Doc" White
High & Dry in Wintergreen VA.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Advice re. Draining Fresh Water Tank [message #60996 is a reply to message #60989] |
Wed, 21 October 2009 17:03  |
Jim White[1]
Messages: 144
Registered: September 2008
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Bruce-
I can see a rubber hose coming from the lower exit of the tank. Without
removing the tank, I'm not sure I can ever get to that outlet. This
appears to be a very tightly close loop system. I have it up to a steady
stream now (think 3 year old peeing) and it's going to take all nigh to
get it emptied.
I was thinking about blowing some air back up that outlet piping but
with that valve on there, it might damage the valve.
At this point I think I'll let it drain overnight until empty,
disconnect the pipes and remove the whole tank, pump and pipes and re-do
this collection of pipes. I've got some rubber, some brass, some
copper, some iron, some gray, some white, some black, some
clear.....about everything. Fortunately, it's a stretch and it 's
located under the passenger side bed and easily accessed. I can also
get to it through the added rear luggage door.
Thanks for your help and I'll report what I find.
Jim"Doc" White
With a steady stream in Wintergreen VA (which ain't bad for an old man)
**************
Bruce Hislop wrote:
> When I removed mine last summer to repair a leak around the outlet, the metal outlet tube was nearly corroded closed. I don't know what kind of metal it was, but the corrosion was a greyish/white colour. It was easy to clean up with a wire brush.
>
> The "funny looking device" on mine is a square piece with the hose fittings 90* to each other, I assume its the one way valve that keeps the water pressure up when the pump shuts off.
>
> My drainage valve is T'd in between the tank and this valve. I would check that metal tube right at the outlet to the pump etc for corrosion blockage.
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Advice re. Draining Fresh Water Tank [message #61005 is a reply to message #60986] |
Wed, 21 October 2009 17:43 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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here is some info that might help
http://gmcmotorhome.info/living.html#fresh
gene
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Jim White <jameswwhite@cyberwind.net>wrote:
> Filled up the fresh water tank for the first time in hopes of cleaning
> out the system before attending a recent rally. While the pump come on,
> it spits more air than water so I was just content to use the campground
> water, except for drinking.
> Now I'm trying to drain the tank and it doesn't want to drain. I read
> the instructions in the manual, removed the fill cap, opened the
> drainvalve nearest the tank outlet pipe, and the drain further down the
> pressure line...drip, drip drip. Tried turning on the pump.....drip,
> drip , drip. Not impressed with 40 gallons to go, I unhooked the water
> line coming out of the tank (just past some funny looking device on that
> line) and nothing.
>
> Something is preventing that water from leaving the tank. Any suggestions?
> Jim "Doc" White
> High & Dry in Wintergreen VA.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Advice re. Draining Fresh Water Tank [message #61031 is a reply to message #60996] |
Wed, 21 October 2009 19:27 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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On Oct 21, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Jim White <jameswwhite@cyberwind.net>
wrote:
> Bruce-
> I can see a rubber hose coming from the lower exit of the tank.
> Without
> removing the tank, I'm not sure I can ever get to that outlet. This
> appears to be a very tightly close loop system. I have it up to a
> steady
> stream now (think 3 year old peeing) and it's going to take all nigh
> to
> get it emptied.
> I was thinking about blowing some air back up that outlet piping but
> with that valve on there, it might damage the valve.
> At this point I think I'll let it drain overnight until empty,
> disconnect the pipes and remove the whole tank, pump and pipes and
> re-do
> this collection of pipes. I've got some rubber, some brass, some
> copper, some iron, some gray, some white, some black, some
> clear.....about everything. Fortunately, it's a stretch and it 's
> located under the passenger side bed and easily accessed. I can also
> get to it through the added rear luggage door.
> Thanks for your help and I'll report what I find.
> Jim"Doc" White
> With a steady stream in Wintergreen VA (which ain't bad for an old
> man)
> **************
> Bruce Hislop wrote:
>> When I removed mine last summer to repair a leak around the outlet,
>> the metal outlet tube was nearly corroded closed. I don't know
>> what kind of metal it was, but the corrosion was a greyish/white
>> colour. It was easy to clean up with a wire brush.
>>
>> The "funny looking device" on mine is a square piece with the hose
>> fittings 90* to each other, I assume its the one way valve that
>> keeps the water pressure up when the pump shuts off.
>>
If that is a plastic device you will find that it's a filter and
likely mostly clogged up. Best to throw it out and buy a better filter
that mounts on the entry to the pump.
There is no "one way" or check valve in the system. The check valve
is built into the pump.
>> My drainage valve is T'd in between the tank and this valve. I
>> would check that metal tube right at the outlet to the pump etc for
>> corrosion blockage.
>>
>
The drain valve that GM used is essentially a radiator drain valve.
Get rid of it and buy a small brass/stainless ball valve from Home
Depot or other such store. Youv ill find that your tank drains about
ten times faster.
Emery Stora
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| Re: [GMCnet] Advice re. Draining Fresh Water Tank [message #61038 is a reply to message #61031] |
Wed, 21 October 2009 19:52 |
Jim White[1]
Messages: 144
Registered: September 2008
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Emery-
Thanks for the advice. I intend to replace all of that plumbing but
with 35 gallons still in the tank, it would be quite messy to cut that
filter loose.
I tried pulling the fill tube off the tank to insert another hose to
siphon, but it will have to be cut off and replaced. It's clear plastic
tubing approximately 3" diameter and should be available.
I'll let you know how I make out with this.
Jim "Doc" White
Wintergreen, VA
75 GMC Stretch
****************
Emery Stora wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Jim White <jameswwhite@cyberwind.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>> Bruce-
>> I can see a rubber hose coming from the lower exit of the tank.
>> Without
>> removing the tank, I'm not sure I can ever get to that outlet. This
>> appears to be a very tightly close loop system. I have it up to a
>> steady
>> stream now (think 3 year old peeing) and it's going to take all nigh
>> to
>> get it emptied.
>> I was thinking about blowing some air back up that outlet piping but
>> with that valve on there, it might damage the valve.
>> At this point I think I'll let it drain overnight until empty,
>> disconnect the pipes and remove the whole tank, pump and pipes and
>> re-do
>> this collection of pipes. I've got some rubber, some brass, some
>> copper, some iron, some gray, some white, some black, some
>> clear.....about everything. Fortunately, it's a stretch and it 's
>> located under the passenger side bed and easily accessed. I can also
>> get to it through the added rear luggage door.
>> Thanks for your help and I'll report what I find.
>> Jim"Doc" White
>> With a steady stream in Wintergreen VA (which ain't bad for an old
>> man)
>> **************
>> Bruce Hislop wrote:
>>
>>> When I removed mine last summer to repair a leak around the outlet,
>>> the metal outlet tube was nearly corroded closed. I don't know
>>> what kind of metal it was, but the corrosion was a greyish/white
>>> colour. It was easy to clean up with a wire brush.
>>>
>>> The "funny looking device" on mine is a square piece with the hose
>>> fittings 90* to each other, I assume its the one way valve that
>>> keeps the water pressure up when the pump shuts off.
>>>
>>>
>
> If that is a plastic device you will find that it's a filter and
> likely mostly clogged up. Best to throw it out and buy a better filter
> that mounts on the entry to the pump.
>
> There is no "one way" or check valve in the system. The check valve
> is built into the pump.
>
>
>>> My drainage valve is T'd in between the tank and this valve. I
>>> would check that metal tube right at the outlet to the pump etc for
>>> corrosion blockage.
>>>
>>>
> The drain valve that GM used is essentially a radiator drain valve.
> Get rid of it and buy a small brass/stainless ball valve from Home
> Depot or other such store. Youv ill find that your tank drains about
> ten times faster.
>
> Emery Stora
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Advice re. Draining Fresh Water Tank [message #61058 is a reply to message #61057] |
Wed, 21 October 2009 21:38 |
Jim White[1]
Messages: 144
Registered: September 2008
Karma: 0
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Thanks Emery-
Well, the short term objective is to drain the tank for winterizing.
I'll give the clamp and cut method a try but not sure there is room to
clamp something. It might work. Then I can bring in a length of 3"
drain pipe or water hose and place it over the rubber hose and let off
the clamp. If I can lower the air bag and the angle right, it will
drain the tank.
Rebuilding the pipes is a one day project however I also want to dry and
cover that plywood floor since it's already been wet too many times.
Even if it doesn't rain, something tells me I'm going to be wet much of
the morning.
Jim "Doc" White
Wintergreen, VA
75 GMC Stretch
********************
Emery Stora wrote:
>
> On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:00 PM, Jim White <jameswwhite@cyberwind.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>> Emery-
>> You must have missed the part about three iterations ago where I
>> mentioned that it was pumping more air than water. The pump is
>> attempting to find water as hard as I am.
>> I have a plan for tomorrow.
>> Jim "Doc" White
>> Wintergree
>>
>
> Why not just use a clamp or even some vise grips on the hose where it
> exits the tank and just leave the water in the tank. . Then you can
> remove the filter , the pump, etc.
>
> Emery Stora
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Draining Fresh Water Tank- Emery was right again!!! [message #61172 is a reply to message #61063] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 15:57 |
Jim White[1]
Messages: 144
Registered: September 2008
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Michael, et.al...
Already tried that and it wouldn't work with the garden hose nor a 3/8"
clear plastic hose. The 90 degree elbow wouldn't cooperate. I finally
drained it by removing the clear plastic line at the end of the filler
tube and inserting a siphon tube. After draining (and several mouthfuls
of bleach water) I was able to remove the plumbing and tank. The
mystery device was a SureFlow Filter and the fine screen was full of
mineral deposits. The small outlet tube from the water tank was also
pretty clogged up and the combination was only allowing a few drops out
at a time so the pump was sucking air.
I cleaned the filter, flushed the tank, and I'll re-plumb it with one
drain and one valve,
I'll also treat the plywood with a mixture of linseed oil an turpentine
to restore the wood chemistry and install vinyl over it to avoid
collecting moisture. The location of the three valves and filter make it
impossible to operate the plumbing . You couldn't clean out the filter
with out removing much of the plumbing, thus previous owners didn't bother.
I'll also diagram the plumbing and somebody can explain the rational for
the design.
Thanks for the advice...
Jim "Doc" White
Wintergreen, VA
75 GMC Stretch (with clean fresh water tank)
******************
The location
Michael Bozardt wrote:
> Jeez, Guys, Come on! Just run a syphon hose down the filler neck until it reaches bottom. Since it is just water, suck on the tube to get it flowing. Viola!
>
> Alternately, if you want to be real sanitary, get(borrow or go to Harbor Freight), a suction pump that comes with clear tubing and pump the water out.
>
> Once the tank it empty, take it out to find the problem. Reinstall it with a working drain valve. Mine is a clear tube connected to a $3 plastic drain valve. Works fine.
> Michael at GEMRECS
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Draining Fresh Water Tank- Emery was right again!!! [message #61183 is a reply to message #61172] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 16:57 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Jim,
While you're doing all that plumbing, why don't you include a city water
fill valve? It's a simple matter of connecting a tee into the city
water line and another into the feed line to the water pump with a ball
valve (or even a remotely operated solenoid valve) in a line linking the
two tee's. Then all you have to do to fill the water tank while
connected to city water is open the valve. Beats the heck out of
standing outside "pumping water" into the filler neck. Be sure you have
an adequately sized and tightly plumbed vent at the top of the tank so
you can't over pressurize it and to have a positive "Full" indication.
On my SOB I even put a pair of SS screws into the overflow line as
contacts for an overflow detection circuit. It was wired so the
solenoid valve was opened or closed by a momentary switch or closed by
detection of water in the overflow pipe. Don't know why I've never
gotten around to doing that for the GMC. Just doesn't fit with "simpler
is better", I guess.
Your philosophy about water leaks around the tank is similar to mine but
a little different: I painted all of the area under and around the
water tank with epoxy paint. If I'd had fiberglass I'd probably have
made a basin there, but I didn't have. After considering an impermeable
covering like your vinyl I realized that I couldn't seal it well enough
to prevent any leakage from getting under it and once there moisture
would not evaporate. So on top of the epoxy paint I installed some
scraps of the expanded aluminum I'd used for the rock catcher behind my
grille. Since that material is, by spec., 62% open water getting under
the tank should be able to evaporate before penetrating the epoxy and
causing damage. When the water pump, mounted adjacent to the tank,
failed recently, I was glad I didn't have to worry about trapped water.
JWID,
Ken H.
Jim White wrote:
> ...
> I cleaned the filter, flushed the tank, and I'll re-plumb it with one
> drain and one valve,...
> I'll also treat the plywood with a mixture of linseed oil an turpentine
> to restore the wood chemistry and install vinyl over it to avoid
> collecting moisture. The location of the three valves and filter make it
> impossible to operate the plumbing . You couldn't clean out the filter
> with out removing much of the plumbing, thus previous owners didn't bother.
> I'll also diagram the plumbing and somebody can explain the rational for
> the design.
> Thanks for the advice...
> Jim "Doc" White
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Draining Fresh Water Tank- Emery was right again!!! [message #61186 is a reply to message #61172] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 17:17 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jim,
Is it feasible to raise the tank off the floor a bit so that if you do get a
leak it won't take forever for the plywood to dry out after you fix the
leak?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim White
Sent: Friday, 23 October 2009 7:57 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Draining Fresh Water Tank- Emery was right again!!!
Michael, et.al...
Already tried that and it wouldn't work with the garden hose nor a 3/8"
clear plastic hose. The 90 degree elbow wouldn't cooperate. I finally
drained it by removing the clear plastic line at the end of the filler
tube and inserting a siphon tube. After draining (and several mouthfuls
of bleach water) I was able to remove the plumbing and tank. The
mystery device was a SureFlow Filter and the fine screen was full of
mineral deposits. The small outlet tube from the water tank was also
pretty clogged up and the combination was only allowing a few drops out
at a time so the pump was sucking air.
I cleaned the filter, flushed the tank, and I'll re-plumb it with one
drain and one valve,
I'll also treat the plywood with a mixture of linseed oil an turpentine
to restore the wood chemistry and install vinyl over it to avoid
collecting moisture. The location of the three valves and filter make it
impossible to operate the plumbing . You couldn't clean out the filter
with out removing much of the plumbing, thus previous owners didn't bother.
I'll also diagram the plumbing and somebody can explain the rational for
the design.
Thanks for the advice...
Jim "Doc" White
Wintergreen, VA
75 GMC Stretch (with clean fresh water tank)
******************
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Draining Fresh Water Tank- Emery was right again!!! [message #61191 is a reply to message #61186] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 17:22 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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My water tank sits on a plywood sheet supported by some 2 x 2's. Apparently Coachman did this so they could run water lines under it.
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
The Malosco Cruiser (TZE368V101144)
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 5:17:43 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Draining Fresh Water Tank- Emery was right again!!!
Jim,
Is it feasible to raise the tank off the floor a bit so that if you do get a
leak it won't take forever for the plywood to dry out after you fix the
leak?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim White
Sent: Friday, 23 October 2009 7:57 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Draining Fresh Water Tank- Emery was right again!!!
Michael, et.al...
Already tried that and it wouldn't work with the garden hose nor a 3/8"
clear plastic hose. The 90 degree elbow wouldn't cooperate. I finally
drained it by removing the clear plastic line at the end of the filler
tube and inserting a siphon tube. After draining (and several mouthfuls
of bleach water) I was able to remove the plumbing and tank. The
mystery device was a SureFlow Filter and the fine screen was full of
mineral deposits. The small outlet tube from the water tank was also
pretty clogged up and the combination was only allowing a few drops out
at a time so the pump was sucking air.
I cleaned the filter, flushed the tank, and I'll re-plumb it with one
drain and one valve,
I'll also treat the plywood with a mixture of linseed oil an turpentine
to restore the wood chemistry and install vinyl over it to avoid
collecting moisture. The location of the three valves and filter make it
impossible to operate the plumbing . You couldn't clean out the filter
with out removing much of the plumbing, thus previous owners didn't bother.
I'll also diagram the plumbing and somebody can explain the rational for
the design.
Thanks for the advice...
Jim "Doc" White
Wintergreen, VA
75 GMC Stretch (with clean fresh water tank)
******************
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Draining Fresh Water Tank- Emery was right again!!! [message #61252 is a reply to message #61183] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 02:43 |
 |
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| GMCWiperMan wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 14:57 |
... why don't you include a city water fill valve? It's a simple matter of connecting a tee into the city water line and another into the feed line to the water pump with a ball valve (or even a remotely operated solenoid valve) in a line linking the two tee's. Then all you have to do to fill the water tank while connected to city water is open the valve. ...
|
AND if you place the tee in the hot water line farthest from the hot water heater, you can use the same piping to:
1. Circulate the hot water to have hot water at the sink/shower without pouring cool to warm water down the drain... extending dry camping fill and dumps.
2. Warm the fresh water tank to act as a hot water bottle on those cool/cold nights. (If you have an engine coolant loop to the water heater, you'll be using engine heat.)
Bang for the buck... 3 mods in one!
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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