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| [GMCnet] JUST WOMDERING [message #59322] |
Wed, 07 October 2009 14:30  |
Charles Aulgur
Messages: 78
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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I want to thank all the folks that responded to my above subject
post, both on net and private e-mails. The post from other engineers
that explained how my rear brake torque reaction bar functions was
what I was hopping for. In my past posts about my
improved brake system, I only received a few general comments and the
net was soon back to more serious items like front wheel spacers. We
still haven't made a believer out of Ken H. so we still have more
work to do. Ken has a very well respected reputation on the GMC net
on a lot of different subjects and as long as Ken still has questions
there will be a lot of people on the net that will still be wondering
if my brake modification actually works. As most of you know, Ken
unhooked or removed the brakes on the two rear tires to eliminate the
problem of the rear tires sliding and putting flat spots on those
rear tires. I totally agree with what he did as I have stated many
times the GMC only has four wheel brakes during a panic stop. During
normal driving, the four wheel brakes provide plenty of stopping/
slowing capability. I expect Ken gets very good milage out of his two
rear tires.
Another important thing to take into consideration is when you are
doing more them normal traffic braking, you are removing the load on
the rear set of tires and putting that weight on the mid axle tires.
I haven't done any analysis on this transfer of weight, but you don't
have to do very hard braking before the mid axle tires are loaded
beyond their rated capacity. It would be interesting if we had the
data on which tires on the GMCs had the most failures over the 30 +
years the GMCs have been driven. I know in my case, I have had the
most tire failure on the mid axle. I have never had a blowout on any
tires but I have had four radial steel belts brake and do serious
damage to my coach. I contribute this to the overloading of the mid
axle tires while also sustaining the tremendous loading they get
during heavy braking. JMHO
It is surprising how easy it is was to install the production version
of my braking modification. You just remove the OEM backing plates,
along with the brake shoes, parking brake cables and brake lines.
Just mount the inter bearing support block to the suspension arms
spindle flange with the supplied four bolts. Install the caliper
bracket on the axle and the torque box on the inter bearing support
with the four supplied bolts. Bolt the reaction bar plate to the
bottom of the bogie frame. Install the reaction bars with a bolt in
each end. Install the caliper and brake pads and connect the
supplied brake line hoses. Bleed the brake system and you are ready
for a test drive and a big surprise on how little you have to push on
the brake peddle to stop the coach.
I will be taking photos when I install the production version on the
drivers side, and with Billy's help, we will put the photos on my
photo site and then add some descriptive words about what is on the
photos. This will be in a few weeks as I have some other things I
have do first.
Rick Flagon, who did all the design drawings on CAD, can assemble all
the parts together in various colors and put the total system in
motion as it would move on a real GMC, including looking at it from
any direction. Quite impressive. Rick also has all the video of the
testing that was done on his coach, including all the various test
stopping distances. If Jim could get someone to assemble all this
various information on a Power Point presentation at the next rally
in Texas he would have you folks itching to purchase the system and
maybe install it for you at his facility. Did you get that JIM?
Chuck Aulgur
La Mesa, CA
76 Royale with great brakes
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| Re: [GMCnet] JUST WOMDERING [message #59326 is a reply to message #59322] |
Wed, 07 October 2009 15:00  |
Marsh Wilkes
Messages: 155
Registered: January 2004
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Aulgur" <cwasdc@sbcglobal.net>
To: "GMCnet" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] JUST WOMDERING
> I want to thank all the folks that responded to my above subject
> post, both on net and private e-mails. The post from other engineers
> that explained how my rear brake torque reaction bar functions was
> what I was hopping for. In my past posts about my
> improved brake system, I only received a few general comments and the
> net was soon back to more serious items like front wheel spacers. We
> still haven't made a believer out of Ken H. so we still have more
> work to do. Ken has a very well respected reputation on the GMC net
> on a lot of different subjects and as long as Ken still has questions
> there will be a lot of people on the net that will still be wondering
> if my brake modification actually works. As most of you know, Ken
> unhooked or removed the brakes on the two rear tires to eliminate the
> problem of the rear tires sliding and putting flat spots on those
> rear tires. I totally agree with what he did as I have stated many
> times the GMC only has four wheel brakes during a panic stop. During
> normal driving, the four wheel brakes provide plenty of stopping/
> slowing capability. I expect Ken gets very good milage out of his two
> rear tires.
>
> Another important thing to take into consideration is when you are
> doing more them normal traffic braking, you are removing the load on
> the rear set of tires and putting that weight on the mid axle tires.
> I haven't done any analysis on this transfer of weight, but you don't
> have to do very hard braking before the mid axle tires are loaded
> beyond their rated capacity. It would be interesting if we had the
> data on which tires on the GMCs had the most failures over the 30 +
> years the GMCs have been driven. I know in my case, I have had the
> most tire failure on the mid axle. I have never had a blowout on any
> tires but I have had four radial steel belts brake and do serious
> damage to my coach. I contribute this to the overloading of the mid
> axle tires while also sustaining the tremendous loading they get
> during heavy braking. JMHO
>
> It is surprising how easy it is was to install the production version
> of my braking modification. You just remove the OEM backing plates,
> along with the brake shoes, parking brake cables and brake lines.
> Just mount the inter bearing support block to the suspension arms
> spindle flange with the supplied four bolts. Install the caliper
> bracket on the axle and the torque box on the inter bearing support
> with the four supplied bolts. Bolt the reaction bar plate to the
> bottom of the bogie frame. Install the reaction bars with a bolt in
> each end. Install the caliper and brake pads and connect the
> supplied brake line hoses. Bleed the brake system and you are ready
> for a test drive and a big surprise on how little you have to push on
> the brake peddle to stop the coach.
>
> I will be taking photos when I install the production version on the
> drivers side, and with Billy's help, we will put the photos on my
> photo site and then add some descriptive words about what is on the
> photos. This will be in a few weeks as I have some other things I
> have do first.
>
> Rick Flagon, who did all the design drawings on CAD, can assemble all
> the parts together in various colors and put the total system in
> motion as it would move on a real GMC, including looking at it from
> any direction. Quite impressive. Rick also has all the video of the
> testing that was done on his coach, including all the various test
> stopping distances. If Jim could get someone to assemble all this
> various information on a Power Point presentation at the next rally
> in Texas he would have you folks itching to purchase the system and
> maybe install it for you at his facility. Did you get that JIM?
>
> Chuck Aulgur
> La Mesa, CA
> 76 Royale with great brakes
Hi Chuck,
Thanks for all the work on the system.
There's no question it's one of the most significant GMC improvements ever!
As soon as production and scheduling allow, PLEASE post braking test with
good controls,comparing several "stock" coaches and before and after on the
test mule, with multiple stops on each test.
The actual stopping distance IS THE BOTTOM LINE. Stopping 20, 30, 50, 75
feet or more shorter could make the difference between life and death.
Demonstrate a significant difference, then even Ken will be hoopin an
hollerin!
Marsh Wilkes
Perry Florida
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| Re: [GMCnet] JUST WOMDERING [message #60233 is a reply to message #60225] |
Thu, 15 October 2009 19:38 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
using our 80 mm calipers and the P35 masters. We do not need any more
than what the Sesitized booster does for us.
I would be honered to supply you our kit at super demo costs so you
can see that a 23' unit can stop on a dime without skidding the rear
wheels.
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Charles, et al,
>
> After spending a little time thinking & drawing, I've finally seen the
> light: You're right about the down-force shift from the rear wheels to
> the center wheels with just the rear swing arm. Big surprise! :-)
>
> With your suspension mods on the center and rear wheels, someone with a
> HydroBoost driving 6-wheel disc brakes should have truly phenomenal brakes.
>
> Without the benefit of a more powerful booster, I'm still not convinced
> that the 4-link will be necessary on the rear wheels. Smaller calipers
> could prevent sliding there at much lower cost than the 4-link. IF
> y'all are willing to sell a center-only kit.
>
> Congratulations, Chuck. Terrific mod!
>
> Ken H.
>
> Charles Aulgur wrote:
>> ... We
>> still haven't made a believer out of Ken H. so we still have more
>> work to do...
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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