Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed?
| Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #59227] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 15:56  |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Just wondering if you got your Dynamic EFI system installed?
Local men's mall owner has everything gathered up for me to install ESC. Gezz I'm like a kid in a candy store since I got EFI going!
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #59485 is a reply to message #59367] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 23:33  |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Bruce,
Thanks a bunch. It hasn't arrived yet; with all the double-post
tinkering I've been doing, I may have reception screwed up. When I get
some time, I'll check the web site files.
Today was an EFI frustration day: Yesterday about 1700 I moved the
coach from its shelter to the driveway beside the house to load up for
the trip to the GMCDL rally 50 miles away. This morning when I cranked
up to leave, the engine ran badly but I hoped it was another case of my
stumbling so headed out. I made the next 3 right turns to get back home
-- and barely made it. To make a not-so-short story short, it turned
out that one of the injectors is bad. I'm wondering if that's been the
source of all my stumbling problems for the past year. O'Reilly's auto
parts is supposed to have me a new injector in the morning -- IF I
ordered the right one. The tech I got at Howell wasn't very helpful (I
should have insisted on talking to Troy) -- "... all I can tell you is
that I've got them and can send it out today "overnight" -- and that
it's a 60 pph Holley...". I hope the 522-43 60 pph for a Holley
Commander 950 is right -- I'm not sure that's the TB we've got.
I'll let you know how it runs with the new injector, and whether I find
your attachment.
Thanks again,
Ken
Bruce Hislop wrote:
> Ken,
> I'm sending my latest Bin to your Bellsouth email address. That way you will have a starting point. I don't have ESC yet so that isn't setup.
> I think this is Bin #12 (the software automatically increments the ID number and adds it to the Bin file name)
> I'm running 16-17PSI, I don't know which injectors you have, so you might have to adjust the BPW number. There is a spreadsheet included on the EBL disk that will calculate that number based on injector size, engine size and fuel pressure. I think I'm using 154 (Howell's number)
>
>
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| Re: Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #59507 is a reply to message #59227] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 08:25 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Ken,
I'll send it to your gmail address as well this morning.
EDIT: I messed up these numbers this morning so I corrected them...
I have never been able to find out exactly what size injectors I have. Howell has the BPW set to 154 which calculates out to 70pph at 13psi. The 454 GMC bin works out to 80pph at 13psi.
I used Howell's 154 number which seems to worked good for their setup.
One thing Dynamic EFI told me was the round top injectors on Holley's will never idle well. I have injectors with the wires coming out the side at the top, which they say are the good injectors.
I saw a chart that showed colour codes for injector sizes, but I have not gone to look for these colours.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 13:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #59573 is a reply to message #59485] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 20:00 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Well, today's entry for my EFI saga is better: I went to O'Reilly's at
0800 and picked up the new injector -- $104+, with my 10% military discount!
We seem to have guessed right on the part number; it looks the same,
including the colors of the plastics, the bottom ring of which (purple)
I suspect indicates the pph rating. It DID come with both the top and
the bottom O-rings. I mention that because in the midst of my novice
troubleshooting I lost one of the lower O-rings and damaged the other.
The Holley throttle body design is flawed in that BOTH injectors must be
removed and installed simultaneously because of a flawed hold-down clamp
design. The bottom O-rings have nothing to keep them on the injector so
they tend to stay in the bottom of the "well" in the throttle body
instead of coming out with the injector. My big assortment did not
include that size, nor did those at any of 4 parts stores; I used a
slightly oversized one with thus far good results.
When I got home with the new injector and installed it (and its twin,
simultaneously) it worked great -- continuously! Almost filled up the
throttle body before I could turn the ignition off! Hmmmm. I now
wonder whether the old injector took out the driver transistor in the
ECM, or vice versa. At any rate, I swapped out the ECM for the one I
just modified with the EBL Flash kit. No more continuous spray.
So, I rounded up the RS-232 to USB adapter, loaded the EBL software on
the GMC's touchscreen computer, and soon had a display of more stuff
than I have any idea what means, so far. I couldn't figure out how to
select the correct bin file, so I decided to see if there was a default
loaded. So I just hit the starter. Immediately, the engine fired off
and I could tell that it ran better than ever before. After a few
throttle bursts, letting it idle for a while, and a little more software
tinkering, I decided "the heck with it", we're leaving.
After repacking the stuff removed for last night, I drove the 50 miles
to the rally at 55-65 mph with everything looking, sounding, and running
GREAT! No more of the stumbling I've fought for the past year, no
surging, no nuthin' unwanted. I have NO idea what the tables look like
-- could be a 1600 cc 4 cylinder setup for all I know, but it works!
When we arrived at the rally, I spent a few minutes and soon figured out
how to select a binary file, so I set to the 454 Chevy truck with
automatic transmission, as Bruce reported he'd done. After getting on
line, I found the file Bruce sent me including his modifications, so
I've now loaded it; tomorrow I'll do a test drive.
This modification puts a whole new light on the EFI system -- it not
only performs better RIGHT NOW, but also offers the capability to easily
utilize features of the old 1227747 ECM which few people seem to bother
with, such as the capability to either control, or react to, the A/C
clutch. It also includes additional A/D channels, about which I've read
almost nothing so far, to incorporate other data sources, and to display
them on the different EBL screens, which are much more extensive than
I'd realized. I'll be able to keep busy with this for months! Sure
glad I got the HVAC finished.
Speaking of which, the HVAC worked great. It was only about 85*F today,
but with 3 times the air flow of before, I could not run the fan above
LO without freezing myself out. I'd thought fan speed would be
sufficient temperature control for cooling. It won't. I'm going to
have to install a thermostatic control to keep the temperature UP --
Yep, I said keep the air conditioning temperature UP -- in a GMC!!! :-)
Great little GMCDL rally we're having here; 30 coaches, 4 of them
"newbies"! Good friends, great lies, wonderful food, and we'll leave
here Sunday with some of us headed to my aunt's nearby 250 acre "play
farm" for more of the same. It's a great GMC life.
Ken H.
Ken Henderson wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> Thanks a bunch. It hasn't arrived yet; with all the double-post
> tinkering I've been doing, I may have reception screwed up. When I
> get some time, I'll check the web site files.
>
> Today was an EFI frustration day: Yesterday about 1700 I moved the
> coach from its shelter to the driveway beside the house to load up for
> the trip to the GMCDL rally 50 miles away. This morning when I
> cranked up to leave, the engine ran badly but I hoped it was another
> case of my stumbling so headed out. I made the next 3 right turns to
> get back home -- and barely made it. To make a not-so-short story
> short, it turned out that one of the injectors is bad. I'm wondering
> if that's been the source of all my stumbling problems for the past
> year. O'Reilly's auto parts is supposed to have me a new injector in
> the morning -- IF I ordered the right one. The tech I got at Howell
> wasn't very helpful (I should have insisted on talking to Troy) --
> "... all I can tell you is that I've got them and can send it out
> today "overnight" -- and that it's a 60 pph Holley...". I hope the
> 522-43 60 pph for a Holley Commander 950 is right -- I'm not sure
> that's the TB we've got.
>
> I'll let you know how it runs with the new injector, and whether I
> find your attachment.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Ken
>
> B
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #60195 is a reply to message #60176] |
Thu, 15 October 2009 11:57 |
Tin Gerbil
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Larry;
That is what I think and have begun to collect the parts.
Gordon
Larry Davick wrote:
> I'm wondering if the EBL makes the Men's Mall fuel injection kit more
> viable.
>
> Is it your impression that this module could turn a sow's ear into a
> silk purse?
>
> If fuel injection could be had for less than thousands of dollars it
> might be higher on my list.
>
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> _______________________________________________
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Gordon
'74 Canyon Lands "Tin Gerbil"
Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #60198 is a reply to message #60176] |
Thu, 15 October 2009 12:47 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
I don't know that there's ever been any question about the viability of
junkyard EFI for us. Even if one used only Ray Swartzendruber's
presentation from www.gmceast.com, they'd have adequate documentation.
And that's what I intended to do until the group buy came up last year.
I'd had NO luck finding a 454 throttle body in any junkyard. The
absence of that, combined with the cost and hassle of accumulating the
rest of the parts, made me consider the $1100 price a bargain. 'Druber
agreed with me, so I joined. My only major mistake there was in not
ordering the electronically controlled distributor from the beginning;
now I've got to add it.
The EBL Flash board has however made an enormous difference in the
performance of my EFI -- even without having done any tuning of it, the
performance is now where I'd thought it would be with EFI. I don't yet
know how they manage to show such an improvement, but they do it. Any
second thoughts that might have been lingering in the back of my mind
are gone now.
Without having checked their prices, and with no personal, or even
second hand, knowledge of their system, the things I've heard about
Affordable EFI's system make me wish I'd checked them more closely
BEFORE I bought Howell.
Ken
Larry Davick wrote:
> I'm wondering if the EBL makes the Men's Mall fuel injection kit more
> viable.
>
> Is it your impression that this module could turn a sow's ear into a
> silk purse?
>
> If fuel injection could be had for less than thousands of dollars it
> might be higher on my list.
>
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #60203 is a reply to message #60202] |
Thu, 15 October 2009 14:17 |
Tin Gerbil
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
Karma: 0
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Gene;
Please look at the size of the table the EBL uses. IIRC it is many
times larger than the table in the EPROM. The response time of the EBL
is also much faster than the ECM with an EPROM. I think the EBL
replaces the EPROM with a dynamic memory chip? If I understand the
system, you don't need the laptop, once it is running? With the laptop
you can write the initial bins save bins, edit and view the tables. The
WUD can save and write the tables?
It seems inconceivable that the EBL will create a bin, that you can burn
into your Howell EPROM, that will make it run well. If this is so, the
guys are Howell must have been asleep for the last 20 years and I don't
think they are.
Gordon
http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Acronyms.php
Mr.erf ERFisher wrote:
> .
> don't you think most of the improvement was due to replacing the bad
> injector.
>
> I have followed the TBI problems, and it seems to me that so far we have:
>
> 1 toasted HEI (bad ground)
> 2 cracked input manifold
> 3 bad ejector
>
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Gordon
'74 Canyon Lands "Tin Gerbil"
Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #60204 is a reply to message #60203] |
Thu, 15 October 2009 14:28 |
Tin Gerbil
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
Karma: 0
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Gene;
The is an error in the following; The EBL uses a Flash Switcher to
change bins, the WUD is on the laptop only not on the Flash Switcher.
Gordon
Gordon wrote:
> Gene;
> Please look at the size of the table the EBL uses. IIRC it is many
> times larger than the table in the EPROM. The response time of the EBL
> is also much faster than the ECM with an EPROM. I think the EBL
> replaces the EPROM with a dynamic memory chip? If I understand the
> system, you don't need the laptop, once it is running? With the laptop
> you can write the initial bins save bins, edit and view the tables. The
> WUD can save and write the tables?
> It seems inconceivable that the EBL will create a bin, that you can burn
> into your Howell EPROM, that will make it run well. If this is so, the
> guys are Howell must have been asleep for the last 20 years and I don't
> think they are.
> Gordon
>
> http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Acronyms.php
>
> Mr.erf ERFisher wrote:
>> .
>> don't you think most of the improvement was due to replacing the bad
>> injector.
>>
>> I have followed the TBI problems, and it seems to me that so far we have:
>>
>> 1 toasted HEI (bad ground)
>> 2 cracked input manifold
>> 3 bad ejector
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> List Information and Subscription Options:
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Gordon
'74 Canyon Lands "Tin Gerbil"
Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #60205 is a reply to message #60202] |
Thu, 15 October 2009 14:52 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Gene,
That's certainly occurred to me. But with the problem so common, I sort
of doubt it.
Right now, I'm not even sure what failed, the injector or the ECM. The
injector was not squirting before I replaced it, but the new one was
squirting continuously after I installed it; both of those conditions
with the original Howell ECM. I'll have to re-install that ECM and do
some more testing. I may even buy another ECM so I can test with
another unit not equipped with EBL Flash.
The tables developed in the EBL Flash are not directly transferable to
the OEM PROM; I asked that question long before I bought -- it was one
of the things that delayed my decision. The EBL Flash designer said
"...I carry a 'works pretty good' original ECM as a spare...".
Certainly with the VE tables, etc., from the EBL Flash it should be
feasible to develop better OEM format tables.
Ken H.
Mr.erf ERFisher wrote:
> .
> don't you think most of the improvement was due to replacing the bad
> injector.
>
> I have followed the TBI problems, and it seems to me that so far we have:
>
> 1 toasted HEI (bad ground)
> 2 cracked input manifold
> 3 bad ejector
>
> by the way, the way to find a bad TBI injector is to shine a timing light
> from any plug into the TBI and make sure your injector does not have
> post-nasal drip. A good injector will show a cone spray into the manifold
>
> seems to me the EBL is just a EEROM programmer hooked into the EFI COMPUTER
> and to an external computer.
>
> so when you guys get finished driving around by laptop, you can just give us
> the new maps and we will load them into a EPROM and run them on our coach.
> ;>)
>
> gene
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #60219 is a reply to message #60218] |
Thu, 15 October 2009 16:49 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Tony,
If you're all that satisfied with the current performance, why change?
But if you just want to change "'cause you can", I endorse the EBL Flash
wholeheartedly. The "What's Up Display" and "Trip" on-screen displays
alone are worth the cost; in your case the performance improvement may
be just an extra. And probably very easily achieved, because they
provide a 454 heavy truch Bin which, for me, is working very well
without benefit of the automatic customizing of which the system is capable.
If you're already using a 1227747 ECM (or probably one of several
others), it's a two-plug swap.
You do need to run a laptop or other display to take advantage of the
software, however.
Ken H.
Barb & Tony wrote:
> I've been following the "threads" about the EBL & the ECM programs. My 454
> has what I assume is a ECM computer system that controls my 454 TBI engine.
> I have over 23k miles on it and extremely satisfied with it! I'm always
> looking for new ideas & changes and wondering if it would be interesting to
> have my spare computer converted to EBL. I think I would like to try it.
> What is the thoughts of you folks that are experimenting with the EBL??
>
> Tony Partridge
> Logansport, IN
> 78 PB powered by 454 TBI DinoSource
>
> P.S. I will be at Elkhart rally Fri. & Sat.. Maybe someone there can
> enlighten me!
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed? [message #60223 is a reply to message #60219] |
Thu, 15 October 2009 17:46 |
tbpartridge
Messages: 26
Registered: October 2004
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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It's a 1228747 ECM. Does that make a difference?
Thanks,
Tony Partridge
Logansport, IN
78 PB powered by 454 TBI DynoSource
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Henderson" <ken0henderson@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ken H. Did you get your EBL system installed?
> Tony,
>
> If you're all that satisfied with the current performance, why change?
>
> But if you just want to change "'cause you can", I endorse the EBL Flash
> wholeheartedly. The "What's Up Display" and "Trip" on-screen displays
> alone are worth the cost; in your case the performance improvement may
> be just an extra. And probably very easily achieved, because they
> provide a 454 heavy truch Bin which, for me, is working very well
> without benefit of the automatic customizing of which the system is
> capable.
>
> If you're already using a 1227747 ECM (or probably one of several
> others), it's a two-plug swap.
>
> You do need to run a laptop or other display to take advantage of the
> software, however.
>
> Ken H.
>
> Barb & Tony wrote:
>> I've been following the "threads" about the EBL & the ECM programs. My
>> 454
>> has what I assume is a ECM computer system that controls my 454 TBI
>> engine.
>> I have over 23k miles on it and extremely satisfied with it! I'm always
>> looking for new ideas & changes and wondering if it would be interesting
>> to
>> have my spare computer converted to EBL. I think I would like to try it.
>> What is the thoughts of you folks that are experimenting with the EBL??
>>
>> Tony Partridge
>> Logansport, IN
>> 78 PB powered by 454 TBI DinoSource
>>
>> P.S. I will be at Elkhart rally Fri. & Sat.. Maybe someone there can
>> enlighten me!
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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