Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Supplimental On Demand Hot Water (Anyone put one in the refrigerator closet?)
| Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #54959] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 00:23  |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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I know there has been discussion about on-demand water heaters. Our first coach, a 23' Transmode, had one and I must say you can get used to that.
I have been standing on my head working on the Eleganza Sink and thinking... the refrigerator vented cabinet is right there. The hotwater pipes are right there. Because we have a 3 way, LP is right there. The wall is about zero inches thick from tapping on it.
This didn't seem like too big a job. Line in. Line out. Gas.
I realize that you probably shouldn't take a shower when it is 110 if you want cold food but evening or early morning. What am I missing?
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55124 is a reply to message #55098] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 07:55  |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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George, I mounted an on-demand propane unit behind my refrig and vented up behind the refrig with some high temp flex tubing from McMaster Carr. I removed the refrig, got rid of the dried out old wall paneling and replaced it with sheet metal. It works fantastic and has absolutely no affect on the refrigerator performance. The water heater runs so seldom and when it does it's for very short periods. You turn on the faucet, it instantly senses the pressure drop and ignites, hot water in 3 seconds. The minute you shut the water off it shuts off the flame. This is probably one of the best things I've done, we love it !
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
The Malosco Cruiser (TZE368V101144)
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: John Shotwell <jshot@rtecexpress.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:16:41 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water
George Beckman wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 01:23
> I know there has been discussion about on-demand water heaters. Our first coach, a 23' Transmode, had one and I must say you can get used to that.
>
> I have been standing on my head working on the Eleganza Sink and thinking... the refrigerator vented cabinet is right there. The hotwater pipes are right there. Because we have a 3 way, LP is right there. The wall is about zero inches thick from tapping on it.
>
> This didn't seem like too big a job. Line in. Line out. Gas.
>
> I realize that you probably shouldn't take a shower when it is 110 if you want cold food but evening or early morning. What am I missing?
George,
Ray E. from the Milwaukee area did just that - great installation!
John
--
John Shotwell
Archbold, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55125 is a reply to message #55098] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 08:03 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I just posted some of the exterior pictures of my tankless water heater installation. I mis-placed the interior shots, as soon as I can find them I will add them.
Here is the link.....
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5266
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
The Malosco Cruiser (TZE368V101144)
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: John Shotwell <jshot@rtecexpress.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:16:41 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water
George Beckman wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 01:23
> I know there has been discussion about on-demand water heaters. Our first coach, a 23' Transmode, had one and I must say you can get used to that.
>
> I have been standing on my head working on the Eleganza Sink and thinking... the refrigerator vented cabinet is right there. The hotwater pipes are right there. Because we have a 3 way, LP is right there. The wall is about zero inches thick from tapping on it.
>
> This didn't seem like too big a job. Line in. Line out. Gas.
>
> I realize that you probably shouldn't take a shower when it is 110 if you want cold food but evening or early morning. What am I missing?
George,
Ray E. from the Milwaukee area did just that - great installation!
John
--
John Shotwell
Archbold, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55137 is a reply to message #55125] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 09:44 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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This looks very interesting, but...is there any way to do this on a 1978 without cutting a hole in the side for an access panel?
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55142 is a reply to message #55137] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 10:51 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I didn't have to cut the hole, the access panel to the rear of the refrig was already there. It would be just has easy to have the refrig under a cabinet or sink facing inward as long as it could breath and take in air and vent up through the roof.
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
The Malosco Cruiser (TZE368V101144)
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Zerkel <gmc@zerkelhome.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 9:44:14 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water
This looks very interesting, but...is there any way to do this on a 1978 without cutting a hole in the side for an access panel?
--
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55219 is a reply to message #55142] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 09:36 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Ray,
That looks like a great hot water solution for dry camping. Like you I
enjoy camping in the various State and National Forest Campgrounds where
there are no hookups.
Your pictures don't show how you vented the heater. Did you add a vent pipe
to raise the exhaust closer to the top of the reefer cabinent?
Also where did you buy your heater?
Is the heater shown in this Youtube video the same as yours?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amQehfJJgUk
Richard
SE Michigan
Website: www.PalmBeachGMC.com
> -----Original Message-----
> I didn't have to cut the hole, the access panel to the rear of the
> refrig was already there. It would be just has easy to have the refrig
> under a cabinet or sink facing inward as long as it could breath and
> take in air and vent up through the roof.
>
> Ray & Lisa Erspamer
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Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55242 is a reply to message #55219] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 12:20 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Hi Richard
The unit in the UTube video is similar but not the same brand, after I researched many different brands, sizes and their output levels, I decided on the Aquah 6L, I got it on Ebay for $180.
I removed the refrigerator, tore all of the dried out paneling off of the outside wall, reinsulated the outside wall and then pop riveted sheet metal on it.
On top of the water heater I connected some high temperature flex silicone coated duct hose approx 3" diameter available from McMaster Carr, it's good for 550 degrees.....I then wrapped that with some thin hi temp insulation covered with a high temp tape to hold it all in place........I ran that up and terminated it right under the refrig roof vent.
Before I installed it I did a lot of testing in my basement with the unit hooked up to a propane tank and my cold water supply. With 40 degree water going in, I could get 140 degrees out with everything running full tilt. Naturally you can adjust it and control it very nice. The exhaust temperature right on top of the unit at the stack was 290 degrees, 6" above that it dropped to 250 and then dropped very fast after that. With the tubing on, the temp at the end of the tubing near the refer vent is approx. 180 after you run it for awhile.
You have to remember that this thing is not ON very much of the time, only when the faucet is on, people tend to think that they have to have an insulation system that can handle 40,000 BTU's for 24 straight hours....... Whether taking a shower and turning the head on and off as you wet and rinse, or washing your hands or doing dishes, I don't think it stays on for more than 30 seconds at a crack.
I absolutely love this thing, and I'm not burning a lot of propane to keep 6 gallons hot all the time.
I have pictures of the back of the refrig installation, but cannot find them for the life of me. Maybe I can stick the camera behind it and get a good shot, I'll give it a try.
Let me know if I can help in any way.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
The Malosco Cruiser (TZE368V101144)
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: RJW <palmbeach@digitek-asi.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 9:36:24 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water
Ray,
That looks like a great hot water solution for dry camping. Like you I
enjoy camping in the various State and National Forest Campgrounds where
there are no hookups.
Your pictures don't show how you vented the heater. Did you add a vent pipe
to raise the exhaust closer to the top of the reefer cabinent?
Also where did you buy your heater?
Is the heater shown in this Youtube video the same as yours?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amQehfJJgUk
Richard
SE Michigan
Website: www.PalmBeachGMC.com
> -----Original Message-----
> I didn't have to cut the hole, the access panel to the rear of the
> refrig was already there. It would be just has easy to have the refrig
> under a cabinet or sink facing inward as long as it could breath and
> take in air and vent up through the roof.
>
> Ray & Lisa Erspamer
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55305 is a reply to message #54959] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 17:59 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Did you remove the original water heater or just added this one? It seems like a great use of the space behind the fridge, and it wouldn't hurt to get rid of the original water heater with it's plumbing.
I hope you can run across the rest of the pictures of the install, it looks very clean.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55340 is a reply to message #55301] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 22:14 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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wondered
thanks
gene
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mr ERFisher wrote on Wed, 02 September 2009 16:58
> > I guess I was asleep at the switch, but I did not think this had a
> > reservoir, it was just demand, so where are you storing the 6 gal?
> >
> > gene
> >
> >
> >
> > > I absolutely love this thing, and I'm not burning a lot of propane to
> keep
> > > 6 gallons hot all the time.
> > >
> > > --
> > Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> > Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> > -------
> > http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> > Alternator Protection Cable
> > http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> Gene, he meant he nolonger has to run his water heater.
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
>
> danandteri.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ///Halon Automatic Fire Extinguishers
> _______________________________________________
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55352 is a reply to message #55295] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 23:02 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I meant the by having the on demand water heater, I'm NOT wasting gas keeping the old 6 gallons of water warm, with the on demand it has no reservoir and does not have to keep a volume of water hot
 Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
The Malosco Cruiser (TZE368V101144)
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Mr.erf ERFisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 4:58:53 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water
I guess I was asleep at the switch, but I did not think this had a
reservoir, it was just demand, so where are you storing the 6 gal?
gene
> I absolutely love this thing, and I'm not burning a lot of propane to keep
> 6 gallons hot all the time.
>
> --
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55354 is a reply to message #55305] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 23:04 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I got rid of the old water heater completely and just use the on demand that is mounted behind the refrig. Works perfect, takes in cold water, put out hot as needed and has soon as the faucet is shut off the on demand flame shuts off.
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
The Malosco Cruiser (TZE368V101144)
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:59:37 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water
Did you remove the original water heater or just added this one? It seems like a great use of the space behind the fridge, and it wouldn't hurt to get rid of the original water heater with it's plumbing.
I hope you can run across the rest of the pictures of the install, it looks very clean.
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55431 is a reply to message #55242] |
Thu, 03 September 2009 13:25 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Ray,
Thanks for the detailed info.
It is my thought to plumb the instant heater downstream from the existing
OEM electric/engine preheat water heater. I would only use the instant hot
water heater function when dry camping. Except for dry camping, the OEM
heater works great when plugged in or while traveling. Since I already have
LP gas in the reefer compartment, it would seem a simple setup. I also have
an automatic fire extinguisher in the reefer compartment.
I assume that running hot water into the cold-water input of the instant
water heater would be OK.
Now all I have to do is pull my reefer and make room for something I never
thought about when I installed it back in 2002.
So far, the lack of being able to heat water with LP gas has been the
biggest drawback of my GMC finished Motorhome. It looks like I might
finally be able to fix that issue.
By the way, I replaced the original water heater with a stainless steel job
a few years ago.
Richard
SE Michigan
Website: www.PalmBeachGMC.com
> I removed the refrigerator, tore all of the dried out paneling off of
> the outside wall, reinsulated the outside wall and then pop riveted
> sheet metal on it.
>
> On top of the water heater I connected some high temperature flex
> silicone coated duct hose approx 3" diameter available from McMaster
> Carr, it's good for 550 degrees.....I then wrapped that with some thin
> hi temp insulation covered with a high temp tape to hold it all in
> place........I ran that up and terminated it right under the refrig roof
> vent.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water [message #55440 is a reply to message #55431] |
Thu, 03 September 2009 14:45 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Hi Richard
I think that's a solid plan, and running hot water through the tankless will definitely not hurt it. One consideration is that the tankless uses so little propane, why not remove the 6 gallon heater and have another storage compartment from the outside available? That's what I did, my portable grill, hot dog forks, etc, etc fit great in there.
But either way, your plan is good.
When you bought the new heater, why didn't you buy the propane/electric/heat exchanger combo?? Just curious.
I've got a tankless comparison I did, I'll send it too you off the GMC net.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
The Malosco Cruiser (TZE368V101144)
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: RJW <palmbeach@digitek-asi.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 1:25:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplimental On Demand Hot Water
Ray,
Thanks for the detailed info.
It is my thought to plumb the instant heater downstream from the existing
OEM electric/engine preheat water heater. I would only use the instant hot
water heater function when dry camping. Except for dry camping, the OEM
heater works great when plugged in or while traveling. Since I already have
LP gas in the reefer compartment, it would seem a simple setup. I also have
an automatic fire extinguisher in the reefer compartment.
I assume that running hot water into the cold-water input of the instant
water heater would be OK.
Now all I have to do is pull my reefer and make room for something I never
thought about when I installed it back in 2002.
So far, the lack of being able to heat water with LP gas has been the
biggest drawback of my GMC finished Motorhome. It looks like I might
finally be able to fix that issue.
By the way, I replaced the original water heater with a stainless steel job
a few years ago.
Richard
SE Michigan
Website: www.PalmBeachGMC.com
> I removed the refrigerator, tore all of the dried out paneling off of
> the outside wall, reinsulated the outside wall and then pop riveted
> sheet metal on it.
>
> On top of the water heater I connected some high temperature flex
> silicone coated duct hose approx 3" diameter available from McMaster
> Carr, it's good for 550 degrees.....I then wrapped that with some thin
> hi temp insulation covered with a high temp tape to hold it all in
> place........I ran that up and terminated it right under the refrig roof
> vent.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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