Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Fan Clutch
| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42734 is a reply to message #42720] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 18:00   |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I hear what your saying, but I do not find any of these # that people
are putting up in the truck portion of the Delco catalog.
They are found in the passanger section only.
I feel there is a reason why the factory uses the ones on big units.
On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> jimk wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 16:51
>> Steve,
>> The Delco 15-4208 just came in the door. Just like I thought, light duty.
>> If you want to try it I'll send it to you.
>
> Jim,
>
> You keep calling it a light duty clutch. Compare it to an OEM one that you have removed from a GMC and tell us what you have then. It is the same size and capacity.
>
> Bigger is NOT always better. If it was I would have 24 inch tires on my GMC. It this case a 15-4644 (which is also larger clutch) will work on a GMC using the supplied adapter sleeve but I'm not sure everyone wants or needs the additional airflow, power requirements, belt wear, noise, and cost.
>
> It is up to the consumer / owner to decide.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42740 is a reply to message #42734] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 18:48 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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What supplied adapter sleve are you talking about? As they say in the
movies "we don't need no stinking adapted". It bolted right up to my
455 without any adapter.
I believe I was the first to use thaf number.
I had called GM and spoke to one of the engineers a few years back.
After describing the weight of the GMC and what engine I had he
recommended it.
It doesn't come on very often. Usually at about 205 deg and it quickly
lowers the engine to about 195 and then goes off.
I suspect it actually takes less power than a smaller clutch because
of the short time it is on compared to the longer on time of the
smaller ones. I have used it for many years now and have no belt
problems.
Jim K drove my GMC at the Ft Meyers gmcmi convention in 2005 and was
impressed with the operation of the fan clutch and has been selling
them every since.
As you apparently have never used that model I don't how you can make
the statements you have. You seem to be assuming a lot that isn't true.
Phycially it is a little bigger than the OEM one that is no longer
availble but I can honestly state that in this case bigger is better.
Your example of 24 inch tires compared to 16 inch tires implies that
this clutch is 1-1/2 times the size. That is not the case at all It
is just a little bigger in size. We are still talking an automobile
clutch here. It just works so well that GM also used it on some
smaller trucks.
I don't understand why Steve F has had so many problems with several
different models of fan clutches. Most people that have installed the
15-4644 have had good experience with it. I wonder if it has anything
to do with Steve using a 180 def thermostat instead of the factory
specified 195 deg one?
Emery Stora
On May 9, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken,
> I hear what your saying, but I do not find any of these # that people
> are putting up in the truck portion of the Delco catalog.
> They are found in the passanger section only.
> I feel there is a reason why the factory uses the ones on big units.
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> jimk wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 16:51
>>> Steve,
>>> The Delco 15-4208 just came in the door. Just like I thought,
>>> light duty.
>>> If you want to try it I'll send it to you.
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> You keep calling it a light duty clutch. Compare it to an OEM one
>> that you have removed from a GMC and tell us what you have then.
>> It is the same size and capacity.
>>
>> Bigger is NOT always better. If it was I would have 24 inch tires
>> on my GMC. It this case a 15-4644 (which is also larger clutch)
>> will work on a GMC using the supplied adapter sleeve but I'm not
>> sure everyone wants or needs the additional airflow, power
>> requirements, belt wear, noise, and cost.
>>
>> It is up to the consumer / owner to decide.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42775 is a reply to message #42740] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 03:55 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| emerystora wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 18:48 |
What supplied adapter sleve are you talking about? As they say in the
movies "we don't need no stinking adapted". It bolted right up to my 455 without any adapter.
I believe I was the first to use that number.
I had called GM and spoke to one of the engineers a few years back. After describing the weight of the GMC and what engine I had he recommended it.
It doesn't come on very often. Usually at about 205 deg and it quickly lowers the engine to about 195 and then goes off.
I suspect it actually takes less power than a smaller clutch because of the short time it is on compared to the longer on time of the smaller ones. I have used it for many years now and have no belt problems.
Jim K drove my GMC at the Ft Meyers gmcmi convention in 2005 and was impressed with the operation of the fan clutch and has been selling them every since.
As you apparently have never used that model I don't how you can make the statements you have. You seem to be assuming a lot that isn't true.
|
Emery,
YES, I have tried and removed the 15-4644 clutch. It was an improvement over the 4 Haydens I had installed over 2 years.
I went through 4 different Hayden / Four Seasons clutches (2 different models over 2 years) and one AC Delco 4644 clutch that I ran one summer. I went to the 15-4644 after I could not get the Haydens to turn off and Hayden admitted that they lowered the engagement temperature on their clutches. Hayden suggested that I could modify their clutch engagement temperature by changing the slot of the temperature control spring. I chose not to do so and went to AC Delco.
I was unhappy with the 15-4644 noise and knew from driving my friend's Transmode that his did not act that way. I finally got a knowledgeable engineer at AC Delco to look up and determine what each clutch was designed for and asked for a recommendation. In my discussions with the engineer he explained that the clutch is matched to the fan diameter and pitch. The fan diameter and pitch is determined by the vehicle manufacturer to meet their cooling requirements for each vehicle and to a lesser extent engine size.
After recommending the 15-4208 to me he had be find the OEM part number for him. I looked it up and verified it with Denny Allen. (Denny also verified my measurements on a fan that he had off of a 403 powered coach since mine is a 455). In a follow up telephone conversation the engineer looked up the GM original number that I supplied and determined the 15-4208 clutch he had recommended earlier had very similar characteristics to the one GM originally used on both the 455 and 403 powered coaches.
The engineer is also the one that recommended that I go to the cheaper K-S belts if I could find them. Based on all of this I returned the AC Delco 15-4644 and got a 15-4208. I installed it with new K-S belts and have never had a problem since then.
During all of this across 2.5 years and about 13,000 miles
I also went through one set of new 7/16" Gates and one set of new Goodyear belts. Granted I did not try a new set of belts when I switched to the 15-4644. It was the that AC Delco engineer that told me that the 15-4644 required a minimum size of a 1/2 inch belt while the 15-4208 required 3/8" minimum belts. He was worried that using the 15-4644 with 7/16" belts might require the belts to be overly tight and hurt the water pump or alternator bearings. I have not heard of that being a problem from GMC users. It was during that conversation he suggested that we might want to roughen up the pulley surfaces on the water pump pulleys if the 15-4644 is used.
Based on all of this I tell people to use either the 15-4208 or the 15-4644 clutch based on their needs and preference.
Note: The 15-4644 that I had was supplied with a sleeve to put over the center shaft on the water pump to enable it's use on our smaller diameter shaft. I have the feeling from your posting that this is no longer true or required.
My source for the Haydens was Pep Boys. My source for the AC Delco clutches was AC-Direct.com
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42783 is a reply to message #42740] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 08:03 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
I don't think the thermostadt has anything to do with it. My
reasoning for this statememt is that I can watch the temp gauge while
driving and the instant my 180 stat opens and allows full flow of hot
engine coolant into the radiator, the darn clutch fan begins to
engage. I doesn't disengage until I'm seeing 175 or so on the
coolant temps. The HD 4644 will bring the temp down much quicker
than any others I've experimented with but it's problem is that it
won't disengage til 165 deg coolant temp. That gives me an operating
range of 180 deg to 165 that I have to listen to the darn thing. It
is obvious that the fan clutch I operated with since installing the
new aluminum radiator two years ago was inop. It never engaged, but
then, I never once saw temps over 210 deg with the old engine. This
last trip to GMCWS states I even pulled Inkopah pass at less than 220,
all the time in 2nd gear at 45 - 50 mph, 3,000 rpm. The first time I
hit 220 temps was N. of Poway on that long series of grades before
Rainbow Valley. Since I'd never seen temps that high I pulled over
and sure enough, it puked. (I should have let it run. ) That's when
I decided the fan clutch was shot and sure enough, I gassed up before
pulling into Emerald Desert RV park and when I left the station, the
darn thing locked up.
No adapters!
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42790 is a reply to message #42786] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 09:44 |
Sandra Price
Messages: 709
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Hey, you guys, I'm not mechanical... Just thought I'd chime in since Bob
and I had the fan clutch coming on off soon after leaving Jim K's shop last
April, on our way north. It drove us crazy! So, when Bob called Jim K and
told him about it, he sent another fan clutch to our next stop and Bob put
it on. Since then we haven't had a problem. Jim, maybe you can pull out
the records and see what you sent us that worked. I realize I may be
missing lots in your mechanical discussions. FWIW
Sandra Price (Bob's out hunting turkeys (the ones that fly so fast) in the
Texas Hill Country)
On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
> Reading all the "adapter"/"no adapter" comments, I have to wonder if that
> clutch that came with an adapter wasn't mislabeled, as we so often
> experience. That is not the sort of design change that could be tolerated
> since it would affect the fit to all preceding installations.
> Configuration
> control procedures simply don't tolerate such changes.
>
> Just thinkin'
>
> Ken H.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> ...
> No adapters!
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
IN GOD WE TRUST!
Sandra and Bob in the 50th Year of our State of Marriage
Lifes a Trip in The Roadhouse
73 Painted Desert
Huntsville, TX
A friend loveth at all times. PROVERBS 17:17 KJV
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42806 is a reply to message #42790] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 12:30 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bob P.
The fan clutch I supplied was the same one that we have been supplying
after I had so much problems with Hayden units.
I truly believe that there is an adjustment problem at time of
assembly or testing at the factory
They test one out of 50 units.
Ever since we went with the Delco 15-4644 that Emery suggest, our
warranty rate became almost non existent.
We must supply about 30 per month.
I will send Steve another 15-4644 along with the one that Ken suggested.
The one thing I have noticed on the 15-4644 is that the coil is
secured on one end with what appears as a RTV compound.
I use to adjust the coils on the Hayden units as they are secured by
the metal notched keeper.
As long as Steve is willing, I will send him fan clutch to try.
It looks like Steve will be receiving a new Quadra Bag Kit from us for
all the work he is doing on the fan clutch trial. I will ask him to
give me the original 4 bag unit so we can examine it.
On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Sandra Price <bsprice9359@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey, you guys, I'm not mechanical... Just thought I'd chime in since Bob
> and I had the fan clutch coming on off soon after leaving Jim K's shop last
> April, on our way north. It drove us crazy! So, when Bob called Jim K and
> told him about it, he sent another fan clutch to our next stop and Bob put
> it on. Since then we haven't had a problem. Jim, maybe you can pull out
> the records and see what you sent us that worked. I realize I may be
> missing lots in your mechanical discussions. FWIW
>
> Sandra Price (Bob's out hunting turkeys (the ones that fly so fast) in the
> Texas Hill Country)
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Reading all the "adapter"/"no adapter" comments, I have to wonder if that
>> clutch that came with an adapter wasn't mislabeled, as we so often
>> experience. That is not the sort of design change that could be tolerated
>> since it would affect the fit to all preceding installations.
>> Configuration
>> control procedures simply don't tolerate such changes.
>>
>> Just thinkin'
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> ...
>> No adapters!
>>
>> --
>> Steve Ferguson
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> IN GOD WE TRUST!
>
> Sandra and Bob in the 50th Year of our State of Marriage
> “Life’s a Trip” in “The Roadhouse”
> ’73 Painted Desert
> Huntsville, TX
>
> A friend loveth at all times. PROVERBS 17:17 KJV
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42809 is a reply to message #42798] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 12:50 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I put it on in the spring of 2004 and got rid of it in late November or December of 2004 after the Ft. Wayne hamfest.
I remember having switched to 15-4208 the year before running up "Trail Ridge Road" in Rocky Mountain National Park and the Eisenhower tunnel on I-80 in Colorado. That run to those rallies in Rapid City and Estes Park followed by those two climbs through the park and one on I-80 were my real tests on the 15-4208 clutch.
I remember discussing the 15-4208 with Denny Allen in person at the Estes Park Rally after having installed it the previous year.
I messed around with the Haydens all of 2002 and 2003.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42869 is a reply to message #42806] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 08:37 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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Since I had nothing better to do, here are some pics of the fan clutch
testing device I rigged up.
I use a heat gun to warm the bimetallic spring while watching the temp
rise using a laser guided thermometer in the other hand. Rick or
Gordon mentioned ambient heat range. Amazingly, the clutch starts
engaging at 114 deg, is fully engaged at 116 deg, and freewheels when
the bimetallic spring temp is 86 deg. I am really lost with this
data. Seems like the thing would be on all the time if it were in the
coach.
Someone needs to edgamacate on these things. Pictured is the HD Delco 15-4644
On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob P.
> The fan clutch I supplied was the same one that we have been supplying
> after I had so much problems with Hayden units.
> I truly believe that there is an adjustment problem at time of
> assembly or testing at the factory
> They test one out of 50 units.
> Ever since we went with the Delco 15-4644 that Emery suggest, our
> warranty rate became almost non existent.
> We must supply about 30 per month.
> I will send Steve another 15-4644 along with the one that Ken suggested.
> The one thing I have noticed on the 15-4644 is that the coil is
> secured on one end with what appears as a RTV compound.
> I use to adjust the coils on the Hayden units as they are secured by
> the metal notched keeper.
> As long as Steve is willing, I will send him fan clutch to try.
> It looks like Steve will be receiving a new Quadra Bag Kit from us for
> all the work he is doing on the fan clutch trial. I will ask him to
> give me the original 4 bag unit so we can examine it.
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Sandra Price <bsprice9359@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey, you guys, I'm not mechanical... Just thought I'd chime in since Bob
>> and I had the fan clutch coming on off soon after leaving Jim K's shop last
>> April, on our way north. It drove us crazy! So, when Bob called Jim K and
>> told him about it, he sent another fan clutch to our next stop and Bob put
>> it on. Since then we haven't had a problem. Jim, maybe you can pull out
>> the records and see what you sent us that worked. I realize I may be
>> missing lots in your mechanical discussions. FWIW
>>
>> Sandra Price (Bob's out hunting turkeys (the ones that fly so fast) in the
>> Texas Hill Country)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Reading all the "adapter"/"no adapter" comments, I have to wonder if that
>>> clutch that came with an adapter wasn't mislabeled, as we so often
>>> experience. That is not the sort of design change that could be tolerated
>>> since it would affect the fit to all preceding installations.
>>> Configuration
>>> control procedures simply don't tolerate such changes.
>>>
>>> Just thinkin'
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ...
>>> No adapters!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Ferguson
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> IN GOD WE TRUST!
>>
>> Sandra and Bob in the 50th Year of our State of Marriage
>> Lifes a Trip in The Roadhouse
>> 73 Painted Desert
>> Huntsville, TX
>>
>> A friend loveth at all times. PROVERBS 17:17 KJV
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42873 is a reply to message #42869] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 09:22 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I guess I should have included a link to the pics:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5181
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since I had nothing better to do, here are some pics of the fan clutch
> testing device I rigged up.
> I use a heat gun to warm the bimetallic spring while watching the temp
> rise using a laser guided thermometer in the other hand. Rick or
> Gordon mentioned ambient heat range. Amazingly, the clutch starts
> engaging at 114 deg, is fully engaged at 116 deg, and freewheels when
> the bimetallic spring temp is 86 deg. I am really lost with this
> data. Seems like the thing would be on all the time if it were in the
> coach.
> Someone needs to edgamacate on these things. Pictured is the HD Delco 15-4644
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bob P.
>> The fan clutch I supplied was the same one that we have been supplying
>> after I had so much problems with Hayden units.
>> I truly believe that there is an adjustment problem at time of
>> assembly or testing at the factory
>> They test one out of 50 units.
>> Ever since we went with the Delco 15-4644 that Emery suggest, our
>> warranty rate became almost non existent.
>> We must supply about 30 per month.
>> I will send Steve another 15-4644 along with the one that Ken suggested.
>> The one thing I have noticed on the 15-4644 is that the coil is
>> secured on one end with what appears as a RTV compound.
>> I use to adjust the coils on the Hayden units as they are secured by
>> the metal notched keeper.
>> As long as Steve is willing, I will send him fan clutch to try.
>> It looks like Steve will be receiving a new Quadra Bag Kit from us for
>> all the work he is doing on the fan clutch trial. I will ask him to
>> give me the original 4 bag unit so we can examine it.
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Sandra Price <bsprice9359@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey, you guys, I'm not mechanical... Just thought I'd chime in since Bob
>>> and I had the fan clutch coming on off soon after leaving Jim K's shop last
>>> April, on our way north. It drove us crazy! So, when Bob called Jim K and
>>> told him about it, he sent another fan clutch to our next stop and Bob put
>>> it on. Since then we haven't had a problem. Jim, maybe you can pull out
>>> the records and see what you sent us that worked. I realize I may be
>>> missing lots in your mechanical discussions. FWIW
>>>
>>> Sandra Price (Bob's out hunting turkeys (the ones that fly so fast) in the
>>> Texas Hill Country)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading all the "adapter"/"no adapter" comments, I have to wonder if that
>>>> clutch that came with an adapter wasn't mislabeled, as we so often
>>>> experience. That is not the sort of design change that could be tolerated
>>>> since it would affect the fit to all preceding installations.
>>>> Configuration
>>>> control procedures simply don't tolerate such changes.
>>>>
>>>> Just thinkin'
>>>>
>>>> Ken H.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> ...
>>>> No adapters!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Ferguson
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> IN GOD WE TRUST!
>>>
>>> Sandra and Bob in the 50th Year of our State of Marriage
>>> Lifes a Trip in The Roadhouse
>>> 73 Painted Desert
>>> Huntsville, TX
>>>
>>> A friend loveth at all times. PROVERBS 17:17 KJV
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmc.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42874 is a reply to message #42869] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 09:24 |
tmaki
Messages: 200
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Steven Ferguson wrote:
>
> I use a heat gun to warm the bimetallic spring while watching the temp
> rise using a laser guided thermometer in the other hand.
>the clutch starts engaging at 114 deg, is fully engaged at
116 deg,
> and freewheels when the bimetallic spring temp is 86 deg.
None of my degrees contain the the letter "E.", but it would
seem to me that since the bimetal spring reacts to the
temperature of the air, perhaps measuring the air coming
through the radiator under operating conditions might shed
some light (well, heat in this case). The air hasn't
necessarily become heat saturated as it comes through the
radiator, i.e., the coolant hasn't given up all its heat to
the air. So the air isn't necessarily 140* or 160* or
whatever. It may be, but only by measuring it would you be
able to know for sure. I'm thinking it's something greater
than ambient but less than the coolant temperature.
Yup, it's tight squeeze in there to put in a temperature
probe. Placed in really close to the fan hub so it reads the
temperature of the air hitting the bimetal spring.
Also, measuring the air temp at the point of highest flow
(where the blade pitch is the steepest) vs. the flow near
the bimetal spring (where there is little direct flow - only
that created by ram or the nearby turbulence) might be a way
to separate out some of the variables.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42875 is a reply to message #42869] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 09:37 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Steve, You've got way, way to much free time on your hands.
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Ferguson" <botiemad11@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch
Since I had nothing better to do, here are some pics of the fan clutch
testing device I rigged up.
I use a heat gun to warm the bimetallic spring while watching the temp
rise using a laser guided thermometer in the other hand. Rick or
Gordon mentioned ambient heat range. Amazingly, the clutch starts
engaging at 114 deg, is fully engaged at 116 deg, and freewheels when
the bimetallic spring temp is 86 deg. I am really lost with this
data. Seems like the thing would be on all the time if it were in the
coach.
Someone needs to edgamacate on these things. Pictured is the HD Delco
15-4644
On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Bob P.
> The fan clutch I supplied was the same one that we have been supplying
> after I had so much problems with Hayden units.
> I truly believe that there is an adjustment problem at time of
> assembly or testing at the factory
> They test one out of 50 units.
> Ever since we went with the Delco 15-4644 that Emery suggest, our
> warranty rate became almost non existent.
> We must supply about 30 per month.
> I will send Steve another 15-4644 along with the one that Ken suggested.
> The one thing I have noticed on the 15-4644 is that the coil is
> secured on one end with what appears as a RTV compound.
> I use to adjust the coils on the Hayden units as they are secured by
> the metal notched keeper.
> As long as Steve is willing, I will send him fan clutch to try.
> It looks like Steve will be receiving a new Quadra Bag Kit from us for
> all the work he is doing on the fan clutch trial. I will ask him to
> give me the original 4 bag unit so we can examine it.
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Sandra Price <bsprice9359@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Hey, you guys, I'm not mechanical... Just thought I'd chime in since Bob
>> and I had the fan clutch coming on off soon after leaving Jim K's shop
>> last
>> April, on our way north. It drove us crazy! So, when Bob called Jim K and
>> told him about it, he sent another fan clutch to our next stop and Bob
>> put
>> it on. Since then we haven't had a problem. Jim, maybe you can pull out
>> the records and see what you sent us that worked. I realize I may be
>> missing lots in your mechanical discussions. FWIW
>>
>> Sandra Price (Bob's out hunting turkeys (the ones that fly so fast) in
>> the
>> Texas Hill Country)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Ken Henderson
>> <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Reading all the "adapter"/"no adapter" comments, I have to wonder if
>>> that
>>> clutch that came with an adapter wasn't mislabeled, as we so often
>>> experience. That is not the sort of design change that could be
>>> tolerated
>>> since it would affect the fit to all preceding installations.
>>> Configuration
>>> control procedures simply don't tolerate such changes.
>>>
>>> Just thinkin'
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> ...
>>> No adapters!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Ferguson
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> IN GOD WE TRUST!
>>
>> Sandra and Bob in the 50th Year of our State of Marriage
>> Lifes a Trip in The Roadhouse
>> 73 Painted Desert
>> Huntsville, TX
>>
>> A friend loveth at all times. PROVERBS 17:17 KJV
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42880 is a reply to message #42875] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 10:17 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I know. It's just that when something stimies me like this, I go
after it til I get it figured out. If I have time today, I'm going to
try heating the alum heat sink vice the spring. You can see from the
poor closeup photo how little that center spindle has to move to go
from open, to closed. I lifted the bimetallic spring on the Hayden
and that center pin, or spring anchor, or whatevevr it is, will rotate
180 deg. No mechanical stops.
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Gary Worobec <gtw5@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Steve, You've got way, way to much free time on your hands.
>
> Gary and Joanne Worobec
> 1973 GMC Glacier
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Ferguson" <botiemad11@gmail.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 6:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch
>
>
> Since I had nothing better to do, here are some pics of the fan clutch
> testing device I rigged up.
> I use a heat gun to warm the bimetallic spring while watching the temp
> rise using a laser guided thermometer in the other hand. Rick or
> Gordon mentioned ambient heat range. Amazingly, the clutch starts
> engaging at 114 deg, is fully engaged at 116 deg, and freewheels when
> the bimetallic spring temp is 86 deg. I am really lost with this
> data. Seems like the thing would be on all the time if it were in the
> coach.
> Someone needs to edgamacate on these things. Pictured is the HD Delco
> 15-4644
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Bob P.
>> The fan clutch I supplied was the same one that we have been supplying
>> after I had so much problems with Hayden units.
>> I truly believe that there is an adjustment problem at time of
>> assembly or testing at the factory
>> They test one out of 50 units.
>> Ever since we went with the Delco 15-4644 that Emery suggest, our
>> warranty rate became almost non existent.
>> We must supply about 30 per month.
>> I will send Steve another 15-4644 along with the one that Ken suggested.
>> The one thing I have noticed on the 15-4644 is that the coil is
>> secured on one end with what appears as a RTV compound.
>> I use to adjust the coils on the Hayden units as they are secured by
>> the metal notched keeper.
>> As long as Steve is willing, I will send him fan clutch to try.
>> It looks like Steve will be receiving a new Quadra Bag Kit from us for
>> all the work he is doing on the fan clutch trial. I will ask him to
>> give me the original 4 bag unit so we can examine it.
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Sandra Price <bsprice9359@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hey, you guys, I'm not mechanical... Just thought I'd chime in since Bob
>>> and I had the fan clutch coming on off soon after leaving Jim K's shop
>>> last
>>> April, on our way north. It drove us crazy! So, when Bob called Jim K and
>>> told him about it, he sent another fan clutch to our next stop and Bob
>>> put
>>> it on. Since then we haven't had a problem. Jim, maybe you can pull out
>>> the records and see what you sent us that worked. I realize I may be
>>> missing lots in your mechanical discussions. FWIW
>>>
>>> Sandra Price (Bob's out hunting turkeys (the ones that fly so fast) in
>>> the
>>> Texas Hill Country)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Ken Henderson
>>> <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading all the "adapter"/"no adapter" comments, I have to wonder if
>>>> that
>>>> clutch that came with an adapter wasn't mislabeled, as we so often
>>>> experience. That is not the sort of design change that could be
>>>> tolerated
>>>> since it would affect the fit to all preceding installations.
>>>> Configuration
>>>> control procedures simply don't tolerate such changes.
>>>>
>>>> Just thinkin'
>>>>
>>>> Ken H.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> ...
>>>> No adapters!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Ferguson
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> IN GOD WE TRUST!
>>>
>>> Sandra and Bob in the 50th Year of our State of Marriage
>>> Lifes a Trip in The Roadhouse
>>> 73 Painted Desert
>>> Huntsville, TX
>>>
>>> A friend loveth at all times. PROVERBS 17:17 KJV
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmc.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> '76 EII
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> Urethane bushing source
> www.bdub.net/ferguson/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42883 is a reply to message #42869] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 11:15 |
Tin Gerbil
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Steve;
This is probably the most useless piece of information in this
discussion, but here are he two clutches I have been talking about. The
first one behaves exactly like you describe. It is always on and makes
a heck of a noise. The second one is what I ended up using on my two
Ford Diesels for 300,000+ miles. They were never touched after the
first install. Our normal load was 7000lbs plus the weight of the
truck. I took one 14,000 load 120 miles, with 90 lbs of air in the
Michelin's and bent the deck all to heck. These trucks never once
overheated, on steep, 10 mph switch-back roads, at 100*F ambient air.
This is just an example of what I did and they are the wrong rotation
for a GM.
HY2797 $65.46
HAYDEN FAN CLUTCH -- Severe-Duty Thermal Design, Standard Rotation, 6.45
in. Overall Diameter, 0.75 in. Pilot Diameter, 1.63 in. Fan Mount
Height, 3.25 in. Fan Bolt Circle, 5/16-18 Hole 4 Bolt And Nut Threads,
Varies The Fan Speed With Temperature Of The Air Behind The Radiator,
Engaged High Speed Operation Provides Maximum Cooling, Disengaged Low
Speed Operation Provides Fuel Savings And Noise Reduction, Offers
Greater Life Expectancy Than A Non-Thermal Clutch, Briefly Engaged At
Cold Start-Up, Engages At About 170 Degrees Radiator Air Temperature
About 30 Degrees Lower Than Coolant Temperature,
HY2710 $35.14
HAYDEN THERMAL FAN CLUTCH -- Standard Rotation, Varies The Fan Speed
With Temperature Of The Air Behind The Radiator, Engaged High Speed
Operation Provides Maximum Cooling, Disengaged Low Speed Operation
Provides Fuel Savings And Noise Reduction, Offers Greater Life
Expectancy Than A Non-Thermal Clutch, Briefly Engaged At Cold Start-Up,
Engages At About 170 Degrees Radiator Air Temperature About 30 Degrees
Lower Than Coolant Temperature, With Hayden's 5-Year Or 50,000 Miles
Limited Warranty
Fits: Without Air Conditioning, Standard (Clockwise) Rotation From Front
Of Vehicle, 1 Ton.
Note they specify the radiator AIR TEMPERATURE, NOT THE WATER TEMPERATURE.
Gordon
Steven Ferguson wrote:
> Since I had nothing better to do, here are some pics of the fan clutch
> testing device I rigged up.
> I use a heat gun to warm the bimetallic spring while watching the temp
> rise using a laser guided thermometer in the other hand. Rick or
> Gordon mentioned ambient heat range. Amazingly, the clutch starts
> engaging at 114 deg, is fully engaged at 116 deg, and freewheels when
> the bimetallic spring temp is 86 deg. I am really lost with this
> data. Seems like the thing would be on all the time if it were in the
> coach.
> Someone needs to edgamacate on these things. Pictured is the HD Delco 15-4644
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bob P.
>> The fan clutch I supplied was the same one that we have been supplying
>> after I had so much problems with Hayden units.
>> I truly believe that there is an adjustment problem at time of
>> assembly or testing at the factory
>> They test one out of 50 units.
>> Ever since we went with the Delco 15-4644 that Emery suggest, our
>> warranty rate became almost non existent.
>> We must supply about 30 per month.
>> I will send Steve another 15-4644 along with the one that Ken suggested.
>> The one thing I have noticed on the 15-4644 is that the coil is
>> secured on one end with what appears as a RTV compound.
>> I use to adjust the coils on the Hayden units as they are secured by
>> the metal notched keeper.
>> As long as Steve is willing, I will send him fan clutch to try.
>> It looks like Steve will be receiving a new Quadra Bag Kit from us for
>> all the work he is doing on the fan clutch trial. I will ask him to
>> give me the original 4 bag unit so we can examine it.
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Sandra Price <bsprice9359@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey, you guys, I'm not mechanical... Just thought I'd chime in since Bob
>>> and I had the fan clutch coming on off soon after leaving Jim K's shop last
>>> April, on our way north. It drove us crazy! So, when Bob called Jim K and
>>> told him about it, he sent another fan clutch to our next stop and Bob put
>>> it on. Since then we haven't had a problem. Jim, maybe you can pull out
>>> the records and see what you sent us that worked. I realize I may be
>>> missing lots in your mechanical discussions. FWIW
>>>
>>> Sandra Price (Bob's out hunting turkeys (the ones that fly so fast) in the
>>> Texas Hill Country)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading all the "adapter"/"no adapter" comments, I have to wonder if that
>>>> clutch that came with an adapter wasn't mislabeled, as we so often
>>>> experience. That is not the sort of design change that could be tolerated
>>>> since it would affect the fit to all preceding installations.
>>>> Configuration
>>>> control procedures simply don't tolerate such changes.
>>>>
>>>> Just thinkin'
>>>>
>>>> Ken H.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> ...
>>>> No adapters!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Ferguson
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> IN GOD WE TRUST!
>>>
>>> Sandra and Bob in the 50th Year of our State of Marriage
>>> Lifes a Trip in The Roadhouse
>>> 73 Painted Desert
>>> Huntsville, TX
>>>
>>> A friend loveth at all times. PROVERBS 17:17 KJV
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmc.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Gordon
'74 Canyon Lands "Tin Gerbil"
Vancouver Island, B.C.
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42887 is a reply to message #42883] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 12:19 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gordon,
If you have been following, I tried a Hayden 2797. It engages at
(coolant temp) 180 - 185 deg, disengages at 175 and takes a long time
to bring the coolant down to that temp. I believe it is the top of
the HD line for Hayden. I realize you are talking air temp and I am
talking coolant temp, but coolant temp is my only means of quantative
measurement. I don't know how to analyize my results from bench
testing.
I haven't tested a Hayden 2710, I can go pick one up and install it
on the coach, or try it on my bench setup.
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Gordon <wizwing@telus.net> wrote:
> Steve;
> This is probably the most useless piece of information in this
> discussion, but here are he two clutches I have been talking about. The
> first one behaves exactly like you describe. It is always on and makes
> a heck of a noise. The second one is what I ended up using on my two
> Ford Diesels for 300,000+ miles. They were never touched after the
> first install. Our normal load was 7000lbs plus the weight of the
> truck. I took one 14,000 load 120 miles, with 90 lbs of air in the
> Michelin's and bent the deck all to heck. These trucks never once
> overheated, on steep, 10 mph switch-back roads, at 100*F ambient air.
> This is just an example of what I did and they are the wrong rotation
> for a GM.
>
> HY2797 $65.46
> HAYDEN FAN CLUTCH -- Severe-Duty Thermal Design, Standard Rotation, 6.45
> in. Overall Diameter, 0.75 in. Pilot Diameter, 1.63 in. Fan Mount
> Height, 3.25 in. Fan Bolt Circle, 5/16-18 Hole 4 Bolt And Nut Threads,
> Varies The Fan Speed With Temperature Of The Air Behind The Radiator,
> Engaged High Speed Operation Provides Maximum Cooling, Disengaged Low
> Speed Operation Provides Fuel Savings And Noise Reduction, Offers
> Greater Life Expectancy Than A Non-Thermal Clutch, Briefly Engaged At
> Cold Start-Up, Engages At About 170 Degrees Radiator Air Temperature
> About 30 Degrees Lower Than Coolant Temperature,
>
> HY2710 $35.14
> HAYDEN THERMAL FAN CLUTCH -- Standard Rotation, Varies The Fan Speed
> With Temperature Of The Air Behind The Radiator, Engaged High Speed
> Operation Provides Maximum Cooling, Disengaged Low Speed Operation
> Provides Fuel Savings And Noise Reduction, Offers Greater Life
> Expectancy Than A Non-Thermal Clutch, Briefly Engaged At Cold Start-Up,
> Engages At About 170 Degrees Radiator Air Temperature About 30 Degrees
> Lower Than Coolant Temperature, With Hayden's 5-Year Or 50,000 Miles
> Limited Warranty
> Fits: Without Air Conditioning, Standard (Clockwise) Rotation From Front
> Of Vehicle, 1 Ton.
>
> Note they specify the radiator AIR TEMPERATURE, NOT THE WATER TEMPERATURE.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> Steven Ferguson wrote:
>> Since I had nothing better to do, here are some pics of the fan clutch
>> testing device I rigged up.
>> I use a heat gun to warm the bimetallic spring while watching the temp
>> rise using a laser guided thermometer in the other hand. Rick or
>> Gordon mentioned ambient heat range. Amazingly, the clutch starts
>> engaging at 114 deg, is fully engaged at 116 deg, and freewheels when
>> the bimetallic spring temp is 86 deg. I am really lost with this
>> data. Seems like the thing would be on all the time if it were in the
>> coach.
>> Someone needs to edgamacate on these things. Pictured is the HD Delco 15-4644
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bob P.
>>> The fan clutch I supplied was the same one that we have been supplying
>>> after I had so much problems with Hayden units.
>>> I truly believe that there is an adjustment problem at time of
>>> assembly or testing at the factory
>>> They test one out of 50 units.
>>> Ever since we went with the Delco 15-4644 that Emery suggest, our
>>> warranty rate became almost non existent.
>>> We must supply about 30 per month.
>>> I will send Steve another 15-4644 along with the one that Ken suggested.
>>> The one thing I have noticed on the 15-4644 is that the coil is
>>> secured on one end with what appears as a RTV compound.
>>> I use to adjust the coils on the Hayden units as they are secured by
>>> the metal notched keeper.
>>> As long as Steve is willing, I will send him fan clutch to try.
>>> It looks like Steve will be receiving a new Quadra Bag Kit from us for
>>> all the work he is doing on the fan clutch trial. I will ask him to
>>> give me the original 4 bag unit so we can examine it.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Sandra Price <bsprice9359@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey, you guys, I'm not mechanical... Just thought I'd chime in since Bob
>>>> and I had the fan clutch coming on off soon after leaving Jim K's shop last
>>>> April, on our way north. It drove us crazy! So, when Bob called Jim K and
>>>> told him about it, he sent another fan clutch to our next stop and Bob put
>>>> it on. Since then we haven't had a problem. Jim, maybe you can pull out
>>>> the records and see what you sent us that worked. I realize I may be
>>>> missing lots in your mechanical discussions. FWIW
>>>>
>>>> Sandra Price (Bob's out hunting turkeys (the ones that fly so fast) in the
>>>> Texas Hill Country)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Ken Henderson <ken0henderson@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Reading all the "adapter"/"no adapter" comments, I have to wonder if that
>>>>> clutch that came with an adapter wasn't mislabeled, as we so often
>>>>> experience. That is not the sort of design change that could be tolerated
>>>>> since it would affect the fit to all preceding installations.
>>>>> Configuration
>>>>> control procedures simply don't tolerate such changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just thinkin'
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken H.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> ...
>>>>> No adapters!
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Steve Ferguson
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> IN GOD WE TRUST!
>>>>
>>>> Sandra and Bob in the 50th Year of our State of Marriage
>>>> Lifes a Trip in The Roadhouse
>>>> 73 Painted Desert
>>>> Huntsville, TX
>>>>
>>>> A friend loveth at all times. PROVERBS 17:17 KJV
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Kanomata
>>> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
>>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>>> http://www.appliedgmc.com
>>> 1-800-752-7502
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42890 is a reply to message #42883] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 12:50 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On May 11, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Gordon wrote:
>
The Hayden 2797 is not the wrong rotation for the GMC.
I had once reported back in 2000 that I had to replace my 2797 and
when looking at the one in the box that I got I saw the arrow showing
the rotation and it was the opposite of the one that I was replacing.
I went back to Pep Boys and we looked at a couple of other boxes and
both of them had the arrow in the correct direction. It seems that
the factory put the wrong clutch in the box.
If yours is the wrong rotation perhaps you really don't have the right
one. I don't think that an opposite rotating one will work properly.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
> This is just an example of what I did and they are the wrong rotation
> for a GM.
>
> HY2797 $65.46
> HAYDEN FAN CLUTCH -- Severe-Duty Thermal Design, Standard Rotation,
> 6.45
> in. Overall Diameter, 0.75 in. Pilot Diameter, 1.63 in. Fan Mount
> Height, 3.25 in. Fan Bolt Circle, 5/16-18 Hole 4 Bolt And Nut Threads,
> Varies The Fan Speed With Temperature Of The Air Behind The Radiator,
> Engaged High Speed Operation Provides Maximum Cooling, Disengaged Low
> Speed Operation Provides Fuel Savings And Noise Reduction, Offers
> Greater Life Expectancy Than A Non-Thermal Clutch, Briefly Engaged At
> Cold Start-Up, Engages At About 170 Degrees Radiator Air Temperature
> About 30 Degrees Lower Than Coolant Temperature,
>
> HY2710 $35.14
> HAYDEN THERMAL FAN CLUTCH -- Standard Rotation, Varies The Fan Speed
> With Temperature Of The Air Behind The Radiator, Engaged High Speed
> Operation Provides Maximum Cooling, Disengaged Low Speed Operation
> Provides Fuel Savings And Noise Reduction, Offers Greater Life
> Expectancy Than A Non-Thermal Clutch, Briefly Engaged At Cold Start-
> Up,
> Engages At About 170 Degrees Radiator Air Temperature About 30 Degrees
> Lower Than Coolant Temperature, With Hayden's 5-Year Or 50,000 Miles
> Limited Warranty
> Fits: Without Air Conditioning, Standard (Clockwise) Rotation From
> Front
> Of Vehicle, 1 Ton.
>
> Note they specify the radiator AIR TEMPERATURE, NOT THE WATER
> TEMPERATURE.
>
> Gordon
>
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42892 is a reply to message #42890] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 12:58 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I remember that Emery. First thing I did was check the arrow
orientation. It was correct.
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On May 11, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Gordon wrote:
>>
>
> The Hayden 2797 is not the wrong rotation for the GMC.
>
> I had once reported back in 2000 that I had to replace my 2797 and
> when looking at the one in the box that I got I saw the arrow showing
> the rotation and it was the opposite of the one that I was replacing.
> I went back to Pep Boys and we looked at a couple of other boxes and
> both of them had the arrow in the correct direction. It seems that
> the factory put the wrong clutch in the box.
>
> If yours is the wrong rotation perhaps you really don't have the right
> one. I don't think that an opposite rotating one will work properly.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>> This is just an example of what I did and they are the wrong rotation
>> for a GM.
>>
>> HY2797 $65.46
>> HAYDEN FAN CLUTCH -- Severe-Duty Thermal Design, Standard Rotation,
>> 6.45
>> in. Overall Diameter, 0.75 in. Pilot Diameter, 1.63 in. Fan Mount
>> Height, 3.25 in. Fan Bolt Circle, 5/16-18 Hole 4 Bolt And Nut Threads,
>> Varies The Fan Speed With Temperature Of The Air Behind The Radiator,
>> Engaged High Speed Operation Provides Maximum Cooling, Disengaged Low
>> Speed Operation Provides Fuel Savings And Noise Reduction, Offers
>> Greater Life Expectancy Than A Non-Thermal Clutch, Briefly Engaged At
>> Cold Start-Up, Engages At About 170 Degrees Radiator Air Temperature
>> About 30 Degrees Lower Than Coolant Temperature,
>>
>> HY2710 $35.14
>> HAYDEN THERMAL FAN CLUTCH -- Standard Rotation, Varies The Fan Speed
>> With Temperature Of The Air Behind The Radiator, Engaged High Speed
>> Operation Provides Maximum Cooling, Disengaged Low Speed Operation
>> Provides Fuel Savings And Noise Reduction, Offers Greater Life
>> Expectancy Than A Non-Thermal Clutch, Briefly Engaged At Cold Start-
>> Up,
>> Engages At About 170 Degrees Radiator Air Temperature About 30 Degrees
>> Lower Than Coolant Temperature, With Hayden's 5-Year Or 50,000 Miles
>> Limited Warranty
>> Fits: Without Air Conditioning, Standard (Clockwise) Rotation From
>> Front
>> Of Vehicle, 1 Ton.
>>
>> Note they specify the radiator AIR TEMPERATURE, NOT THE WATER
>> TEMPERATURE.
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42896 is a reply to message #42887] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 14:05 |
Tin Gerbil
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steve;
I am beginning to suspect everything made in the last 5 years, has
somehow turned to crap. I have been following, and I just wanted you to
know the specific fans I used for 10+ years and the specific noisy fan I
took off.
When I check the listed vehicles, the 2710 is listed for 6 cylinder and
small V-8's, no one tons, no diesels. For all I know the max 4500 rpm
of the diesel (90% of the time 2400rpm) was why the 2710 survived and
5000 rpm of a 455 will destroy it.
How did I get screwed up with rotation? Is it only the distributor that
turns anti-clockwise on the 403-455?
I found the answer, my mistake. Brain fart. Only some marine engines
turn anti-clockwise.
JWWFM.
Gordon
Steven Ferguson wrote:
> Gordon,
> If you have been following, I tried a Hayden 2797. It engages at
> (coolant temp) 180 - 185 deg, disengages at 175 and takes a long time
> to bring the coolant down to that temp. I believe it is the top of
> the HD line for Hayden. I realize you are talking air temp and I am
> talking coolant temp, but coolant temp is my only means of quantative
> measurement. I don't know how to analyize my results from bench
> testing.
> I haven't tested a Hayden 2710, I can go pick one up and install it
> on the coach, or try it on my bench setup.
>
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Gordon
'74 Canyon Lands "Tin Gerbil"
Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fan Clutch [message #42901 is a reply to message #42869] |
Mon, 11 May 2009 14:35 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steven Ferguson writes...
> Since I had nothing better to do, here are some pics of the fan clutch
> testing device I rigged up.
> I use a heat gun to warm the bimetallic spring while watching the temp
> rise using a laser guided thermometer in the other hand. Rick or
> Gordon mentioned ambient heat range. Amazingly, the clutch starts
> engaging at 114 deg, is fully engaged at 116 deg, and freewheels when
> the bimetallic spring temp is 86 deg. I am really lost with this
> data. Seems like the thing would be on all the time if it were in the
> coach.
> Someone needs to edgamacate on these things. Pictured is the HD Delco 15-4644
It needs to be asked: Is your thermometer reading Calsius or
Farenheight? 114 degrees C is about 237 degrees F.
Also: Those IR guns are calibrated against a flat black surface. Shiny
stuff confuses them a bit, but it shouldn't be by that much.
And some of them have a wider beam than others, often reading a 1 or
2" spot at a range of 6-8". The laser pointer is misleading, and the
IR gun just uses the laser as a pointing device.
Finally, I wonder if the heat gun is supplying enough heat. It is
certainly hot enough, but it may not be plentiful enough. The
thermostat spring is clamped to the front of the body, which is finned
for heat management. Maybe the reading is weird because it's
calibrated for air temperature that is more constant over the whole
body of the device.
Rick "admiring the test apparatus" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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