Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] steering
| [GMCnet] steering [message #367477] |
Wed, 03 November 2021 23:23  |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks to Ken Burton...good explaining about the ride heights...now..where do you think a 2.5 lock to lock steering box turns affects steering going down the road...some feel it makes no difference, providing geometry is right
Brian
77 ele 455
sperling mn canada
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
|
|
|
|
| [GMCnet] Re: steering [message #367479 is a reply to message #367477] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 07:59  |
|
|
According to Dave Lenzi the GMC Motorhome steering box turns 3-1/3 rounds,
stop to stop. If you use a box that turns more than that, you WILL damage
your lower control arms.
THE LEGEND, Alex Ferrara, posted a photo of an A-Arm with the end, the ball
joint end, almost completely torn off from repeated impact from the
steering arm, but it was not on the photo site, so is lost forever. 😞
bdub
On Wed, Nov 3, 2021, 11:24 PM Brian Waddell wrote:
> Thanks to Ken Burton...good explaining about the ride heights...now..where
> do you think a 2.5 lock to lock steering box turns affects steering going
> down the road...some feel it makes no difference, providing geometry is
> right
> Brian
> 77 ele 455
> sperling mn canada
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
bdub
bdub.net
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] steering [message #367480 is a reply to message #367477] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 09:25 |
 |
Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Brian,
The number of turns is just a measure of the steering box gear ratio. It does not affect handling other than how much you have to turn the steering wheel to turn the tires a certain angle. The wrong steering box might be an issue, possibly even damaged the lower control arms if it doesn't have the turn stops clocked the same as Billy mentioned, but your steering problem lies elsewhere.
I am also solidly in the truck-alignment-shops-don't-understand-our-GMCs. I did a "get it drivable" alignment after I put on the one ton front end, got it close but not right, and brought it on recommendation to a truck service shop that had just had a new Snap-On alignment station installed to the tune of $150K. I was the first vehicle brought in and the Snap-On rep with his assistant was training the 3 shop mechanic on how to use the setup. Long story short, their alignment was better than my initial, but still not quite right. I ended up doing the final alignment myself and the coach goes straight down a straight road for hundreds of yards without my hands on the wheel.
I'm not saying that your alignment is wrong, just that truck shops deal with trucks and GMCs are not that.
I admire your tenacity in sticking with the coach and trying to get it right. Did you know that Alex Ferrara, who was a helluva smart guy and good mechanic, was going to sell his coach because of handling issues? Then he went to a GMCMI convention and Dave Lenzi identified his problem with literally a glance. I don't know if someone already posted a link to Rob Mueller's write up on how to check all of the steering and suspension components that could affect steering. It takes two people to perform and a good bit of time, but if you haven't gone through Rob's process you should.
Keep with it, Brian! We're all rooting for you.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
|
|
|
|
| [GMCnet] Re: steering [message #367483 is a reply to message #367480] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 10:08 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
After all is said and done, you have to consider that you are dealing with
a "system" here. It starts with your hands' or perhaps a bit further away
from your hands, like the seat of your pants.
And it continues until it gets to the tire contact patch with whatever
kind of pavement that you happen to be traveling on at the moment.
If there are ANY PROBLEMS with any component in that "System", then
the ultimate result will be as you describe it. Steering wander or
inaccuracy.
Even tiny ones magnify into big ones when traveling through the system.
I could elaborate, but space is limited. And already well covered. Go back
and check everything. Every component in the system. Bushings, ball joints,
cracked or bent frame, idler arm, steering shaft and box. EVERYTHING! Your
problem is in there somewhere, maybe more than one.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Thu, Nov 4, 2021, 7:25 AM Richard wrote:
> Brian,
>
> The number of turns is just a measure of the steering box gear ratio. It
> does not affect handling other than how much you have to turn the steering
> wheel to turn the tires a certain angle. The wrong steering box might be
> an issue, possibly even damaged the lower control arms if it doesn't have
> the turn stops clocked the same as Billy mentioned, but your steering
> problem lies elsewhere.
>
> I am also solidly in the truck-alignment-shops-don't-understand-our-GMCs.
> I did a "get it drivable" alignment after I put on the one ton front end,
> got it close but not right, and brought it on recommendation to a truck
> service shop that had just had a new Snap-On alignment station installed to
> the tune of $150K. I was the first vehicle brought in and the Snap-On rep
> with his assistant was training the 3 shop mechanic on how to use the
> setup. Long story short, their alignment was better than my initial, but
> still not quite right. I ended up doing the final alignment myself and the
> coach goes straight down a straight road for hundreds of yards without my
> hands on the wheel.
>
> I'm not saying that your alignment is wrong, just that truck shops deal
> with trucks and GMCs are not that.
>
> I admire your tenacity in sticking with the coach and trying to get it
> right. Did you know that Alex Ferrara, who was a helluva smart guy and good
> mechanic, was going to sell his coach because of handling issues? Then he
> went to a GMCMI convention and Dave Lenzi identified his problem with
> literally a glance. I don't know if someone already posted a link to Rob
> Mueller's write up on how to check all of the steering and suspension
> components that could affect steering. It takes two people to perform and
> a good bit of time, but if you haven't gone through Rob's process you
> should.
>
> Keep with it, Brian! We're all rooting for you.
>
> Richard
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777;
> '76 Palm Beach under construction;
> ‘76 Edgemonte waiting its turn
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] steering [message #367484 is a reply to message #367480] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 11:49 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
[quote title=Richard RV wrote on Thu, 04 November 2021 07:25 I don't know if someone already posted a link to Rob Mueller's write up on how to check all of the steering and suspension components that could affect steering. It takes two people to perform and a good bit of time, but if you haven't gone through Rob's process you should.
Richard[/quote]
here you go:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] steering [message #367492 is a reply to message #367477] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 21:23 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Brian Waddell wrote on Wed, 03 November 2021 23:23Thanks to Ken Burton...good explaining about the ride heights...now..where do you think a 2.5 lock to lock steering box turns affects steering going down the road...some feel it makes no difference, providing geometry is right
Brian
77 ele 455
sperling mn canada
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
This question is in an area I have never had to work in. I have put an upper seal in one and centered one, but that is it. So the my response here is strictly an uneducated opinion.
Today they make variable ratio steering boxes and the Equinox I drive has electric speed sensitive steering. These "improvements" take some time to get use to. At least we have a single ratio to get use to. If I were worried about the difference between 2.5 and 3.3 turns lock to lock, I think I would like to know why this one box is 2.5?
It is my understanding some of the these boxes have internal stops. Does this box have these? Also I assume they make several ratios in these boxes. Is this 2.5 thing because the box ratio is different and you are hitting the control arms at 2.5 turns? I think I would have to determine which one of these is different before I decided on my next step.
For more technical information someone else will need to answer here.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| [GMCnet] Re: steering [message #367499 is a reply to message #367492] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 06:32 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ken,
My steering box experience is similar to your own: I've "rebuilt"
(re-sealed) 2-3 and centered my own, but that's about it. I do remember
that Stoddard used to sell a "high ratio/fast" box with, IIRC 16:1 steering
ratio (vs I know not what OEM). Surely that would have had the standard
stops to avoid A-arm, and other, damage. My suspicion is that the 2.5
turns box is one of those high ratio boxes. Since the wander problem
occurs on-center, I would not expect the ratio change to be a major
contributor -- but I sure don't KNOW.
With all the work Brian's reported on everything else, I'd sure be
tempted to try an OEM box.
Ken H.
On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 10:23 PM Ken Burton wrote:
> Brian Waddell wrote on Wed, 03 November 2021 23:23
>> Thanks to Ken Burton...good explaining about the ride
> heights...now..where do you think a 2.5 lock to lock steering box turns
> affects steering
>> going down the road...some feel it makes no difference, providing
> geometry is right
>> Brian
>> 77 ele 455
>> sperling mn canada
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> This question is in an area I have never had to work in. I have put an
> upper seal in one and centered one, but that is it. So the my response here
> is strictly an uneducated opinion.
...
>
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu Aug 08 02:47:45 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02505 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
