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| [GMCnet] Valve adjustment [message #363774] |
Sat, 01 May 2021 14:56  |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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Yes, valve adjustment. Right or wrong my engine has adjustable rockers. Ive just replaced the lifters due to a bad one and went through the rocker adjustment procedure.
Being paranoid is there anyway to know if anything is off far enough to be a problem ?
Being a newbie is it worth pulling the valve covers and readjusting them while its running?
Or am i more likely to make it worse?
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Valve adjustment [message #363775 is a reply to message #363774] |
Sat, 01 May 2021 16:04  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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Keith V wrote on Sat, 01 May 2021 15:56Yes, valve adjustment. Right or wrong my engine has adjustable rockers. Ive just replaced the lifters due to a bad one and went through the rocker adjustment procedure.
Being paranoid is there anyway to know if anything is off far enough to be a problem ?
Being a newbie is it worth pulling the valve covers and readjusting them while its running?
Keith,
If the lifters (lash adjusters) came with a static set procedure, then that should be as good anything. The range of authority of the devices is actually pretty wide and all you need to do is be in that range. Yes, there will changes with thermal situation and wear, but that should not out range the lash adjustment capability of those.
So, the chances are that you will not make things better while trying to do a hot reset.
Besides, you don't have the little clips to keep them from oiling the seats (again).
There is a reason why engine builders don't like to do a hot valve reset.
Good to hear it is going together.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment [message #363776 is a reply to message #363775] |
Sat, 01 May 2021 16:28 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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Thanks Matt,
I did get a set of oil clips and got impatient, you know me..., so i did the pass side, it looked pretty good.
So the efi is in and calibrated, probably ready for a tuning run as soon as i figure out how to mount an air filter
________________________________
From: Matt Colie
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 4:04:53 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment
Keith V wrote on Sat, 01 May 2021 15:56
> Yes, valve adjustment. Right or wrong my engine has adjustable rockers. Ive just replaced the lifters due to a bad one and went through the rocker
> adjustment procedure.
>
> Being paranoid is there anyway to know if anything is off far enough to be a problem ?
>
> Being a newbie is it worth pulling the valve covers and readjusting them while its running?
Keith,
If the lifters (lash adjusters) came with a static set procedure, then that should be as good anything. The range of authority of the devices is
actually pretty wide and all you need to do is be in that range. Yes, there will changes with thermal situation and wear, but that should not out
range the lash adjustment capability of those.
So, the chances are that you will not make things better while trying to do a hot reset.
Besides, you don't have the little clips to keep them from oiling the seats (again).
There is a reason why engine builders don't like to do a hot valve reset.
Good to hear it is going together.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment [message #363778 is a reply to message #363776] |
Sat, 01 May 2021 22:09 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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Keith,
The jeep/ Chrysler factory plastic manifold off the TB is about perfect.
Then you can duct it to wherever you put the air filter. I put mine behind
the DS headlamp assy.
Sully
Bellevue wa
On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 2:29 PM Keith V wrote:
> Thanks Matt,
> I did get a set of oil clips and got impatient, you know me..., so i did
> the pass side, it looked pretty good.
> So the efi is in and calibrated, probably ready for a tuning run as soon
> as i figure out how to mount an air filter
> ________________________________
> From: Matt Colie
> Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 4:04:53 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment
>
> Keith V wrote on Sat, 01 May 2021 15:56
>> Yes, valve adjustment. Right or wrong my engine has adjustable rockers.
> Ive just replaced the lifters due to a bad one and went through the rocker
>> adjustment procedure.
>>
>> Being paranoid is there anyway to know if anything is off far enough to
> be a problem ?
>>
>> Being a newbie is it worth pulling the valve covers and readjusting them
> while its running?
>
> Keith,
>
> If the lifters (lash adjusters) came with a static set procedure, then
> that should be as good anything. The range of authority of the devices is
> actually pretty wide and all you need to do is be in that range. Yes,
> there will changes with thermal situation and wear, but that should not out
> range the lash adjustment capability of those.
>
> So, the chances are that you will not make things better while trying to
> do a hot reset.
> Besides, you don't have the little clips to keep them from oiling the
> seats (again).
> There is a reason why engine builders don't like to do a hot valve reset.
>
> Good to hear it is going together.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum
> Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Valve adjustment [message #363783 is a reply to message #363774] |
Sun, 02 May 2021 10:02 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Did you try 3/4 turn after the point where it just stops ticking? Repeat 15 times. Racer guys might only go 1/2 turn past quiet so high RPM pumpup effect is minimized, but that’s not us.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
[Updated on: Sun, 02 May 2021 12:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment [message #363784 is a reply to message #363783] |
Sun, 02 May 2021 14:28 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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I talked to Dick Patterson, he said 1/2 turn.
But the real question is how far off is too far and holds the valve open?
Not enough and it ticks, but too far??
________________________________
From: John R.Lebetski
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 10:02:31 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment
Did you try 3/4 turn after the point where it just stops ticking? Repeat 15 times. Racer guys might only go 1/2 turn past quite so high RPM pumpup
effect is minimized, but that’s not us.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment [message #363789 is a reply to message #363784] |
Sun, 02 May 2021 18:38 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Keith V wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 15:28I talked to Dick Patterson, he said 1/2 turn.
But the real question is how far off is too far and holds the valve open?
Not enough and it ticks, but too far??
Kieth,
One of the reasons for hydraulic lash adjusters is that they have a huge sense of humor..... When they are working right.
If you are doing the set even warm, the exhaust stems are so hot that there is not much thermal expansion left for them. And, don't even worry about the intakes, they don't change enough to be an issue at all.
The thing that is important if you are doing a cold set is that you are setting the at TDC for that cylinder. Some one is bound to tell you that you only need to set the crank in two positions... Set #1 TDC and then you can set #5I #7E #4I #9M (just seeing if you were paying attention....)
Really - That is a recipe for a mistake. The nolo contendre for best way to set or inspect lash is this...
Write the firing order in two rows
1 8 4 3
6 5 7 2 For a 455
Now roll the crank until #1 is in cross-over (Exhaust is closing and Intake is opening). Now you know the #6 should be on the dwell of the cam and you can set both those valves. This is the way we always did it in the contract labs that I ran. Why this way? Because it is absolutely certain that the valves you are working on are the right two. Unless you only work on one specific engine family, it is confusing and this is a sure way though that confusion.
Side Joke: I did once own a Honda 350-4 (loved that bike). In the manual, under adjusting the valve lash it said,"Position the crankshaft so all the valves are closed." My guess is that someone copied this from the 2 cylinder manual.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment [message #363790 is a reply to message #363789] |
Sun, 02 May 2021 18:51 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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When you change stuff like camshafts, lifters, rocker arms, valves, PUSH
RODS, etc. Then all bets are off. Oldsmobiles did NOT COME FROM THE FACTORY
WITH ADJUSTABLE VALVE TRAINS. So, everything from valve lift, how far the
valve stems extend into the heads after a machine shop finishes grinding
the seats, valve faces, and stems, push rod length, lifter plunger travel
range, thread pitch on the valve adjusters, ALL CAN, AND DO INDEED, affect
preload. What a can of worms you have created for yourself.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sun, May 2, 2021, 4:39 PM Matt Colie wrote:
> Keith V wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 15:28
>> I talked to Dick Patterson, he said 1/2 turn.
>> But the real question is how far off is too far and holds the valve open?
>> Not enough and it ticks, but too far??
>
> Kieth,
>
> One of the reasons for hydraulic lash adjusters is that they have a huge
> sense of humor..... When they are working right.
>
> If you are doing the set even warm, the exhaust stems are so hot that
> there is not much thermal expansion left for them. And, don't even worry
> about
> the intakes, they don't change enough to be an issue at all.
>
> The thing that is important if you are doing a cold set is that you are
> setting the at TDC for that cylinder. Some one is bound to tell you that
> you
> only need to set the crank in two positions... Set #1 TDC and then you
> can set #5I #7E #4I #9M (just seeing if you were paying attention....)
>
> Really - That is a recipe for a mistake. The nolo contendre for best way
> to set or inspect lash is this...
> Write the firing order in two rows
> 1 8 4 3
> 6 5 7 2 For a 455
> Now roll the crank until #1 is in cross-over (Exhaust is closing and
> Intake is opening). Now you know the #6 should be on the dwell of the cam
> and
> you can set both those valves. This is the way we always did it in the
> contract labs that I ran. Why this way? Because it is absolutely certain
> that the valves you are working on are the right two. Unless you only
> work on one specific engine family, it is confusing and this is a sure way
> though that confusion.
>
> Side Joke: I did once own a Honda 350-4 (loved that bike). In the
> manual, under adjusting the valve lash it said,"Position the crankshaft so
> all the
> valves are closed." My guess is that someone copied this from the 2
> cylinder manual.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL,
> GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum
> Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Valve adjustment [message #363895 is a reply to message #363774] |
Sun, 09 May 2021 07:12 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Set n forget. Loosen till it ticks, tighten till the tick just stops, add 1/2 to 3/4 turn and you're good to fo. Like Matt says, there's a lot of tolerance in the lifters. No worms here, just one more step.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| [GMCnet] Re: Valve adjustment [message #363902 is a reply to message #363895] |
Sun, 09 May 2021 09:26 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Depending upon the thread pitch of the valve adjusting fastener, and the
particular hydraulic lifter involved, that procedure may vary a bit. I
never did use my ears as a means of determining how much clearance is
involved. BUT, "most hydraulic lifter internal plungers have about .080" of
total travel. Somewhere about 1/2 way through that range will usually work.
Do the math on your setup, and set them accordingly.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sun, May 9, 2021, 5:12 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Set n forget. Loosen till it ticks, tighten till the tick just stops, add
> 1/2 to 3/4 turn and you're good to fo. Like Matt says, there's a lot of
> tolerance in the lifters. No worms here, just one more step.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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