Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » AT Fluid in the Radiator
| AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363540] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 08:12  |
Al Hamilton
Messages: 61
Registered: March 2008
Location: Heart of the 1000 Islands...
Karma: 12
|
Member |
|
|
I removed the radiator cap to check the coolant level after the long winter and found transmission fluid in the radiator. I assume the fluid cooler in the radiator is leaking. There is no sign of coolant in the transmission so far anyway. My plan is to disconnect the cooler lines and install a larger external cooler then the one I have, and have a good flushing done of the engine cooling system. I have a aluminum radiator that I got at a GMCMI convention 14 years ago. I never heard of this happening to anyone else. Any comments of suggestions would be appreciated.
Al Hamilton,
76 Eleganza II,
Heart of the 1000 Islands, Ontario
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363541 is a reply to message #363540] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 08:31  |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I would be much more worried about flushing the transmission than I would be about flushing the cooling system.... I "think" atf would be lighter than coolant, so if you did have coolant in the trans I think it would be in the bottom of the pan....
Not sure what pressure ATF is at as it runs through the cooler, but I would think it would be low pressure, as it should just dump back in the pan when it reaches the end of the line... So if you have ATF in your coolant, would think the opposite would be true as well...
Would definitely drop the pan on the trans to see what's going on in there....
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363542 is a reply to message #363540] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 08:44 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I believe I saw some comments on this site that it is a good idea to use a sacrificial anode on these radiators... So possibly after 13 years there may be some corrosion that could have caused the breach in the cooler?
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363543 is a reply to message #363542] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 08:52 |
Al Hamilton
Messages: 61
Registered: March 2008
Location: Heart of the 1000 Islands...
Karma: 12
|
Member |
|
|
Thanks Mark, I have a drain plug in the transmission pan so getting out what's in the pan isn't too difficult. Since it hasn't been running for six months and the coolant was checked for strength last fall and all OK, I hope the fluid hasn't moved out of the radiator.
Al Hamilton,
76 Eleganza II,
Heart of the 1000 Islands, Ontario
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363545 is a reply to message #363540] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 09:08 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If you haven't run the coach, I would think you should be just fine... But I would definitely drop the pan and flush the cooler lines to be sure before installing the external cooler....
You could also probably flush the cooler in the rad and then plug the inlet/outlet and keep using the radiator.... But if it is corrosion, I would also be concerned about the integrity of the engine oil cooler as well....
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
| [GMCnet] Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363546 is a reply to message #363540] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 08:55 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I took ours out of winter storage and found just the opposite, coolant in the transmission fluid. I have an Aluminum radiator only 5 years old. I sent a sample of my transmission fluid to Blackstone labs and they confirmed antifreeze and water in the trans fluid. I had to flush the transmission NINE TIMES using 20 gallons of transmission fluid before I got good test results from Blackstone labs. I've now bypassed the radiator for Transmission fluid cooling. What's even more scary is what if the engine Oil Cooler inside the radiator failed. So I've also installed an auxiliary engine oil Cooler and bypassed the radiator.I've contacted Jim Kanamata because I purchased the radiator from Applied, I haven't heard back from him yet.Sent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Al Hamilton Date: 4/20/21 8:13 AM (GMT-06:00) To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org Subject: [GMCnet] AT Fluid in the Radiator I removed the radiator cap to check the coolant level after the long winter and found transmission fluid in the radiator. I assume the fluid coolerin the radiator is leaking. There is no sign of coolant in the transmission so far anyway. My plan is to disconnect the cooler lines and install alarger external cooler then the one I have, and have a good flushing done of the engine cooling system. I have a aluminum radiator that I got at aGMCMI convention 14 years ago. I never heard of this happening to anyone else. Any comments of suggestions would be appreciated.-- Al Hamilton,76 Eleganza II,Heart of the 1000 Islands, Ontario_______________________________________________GMCnet mailing listUnsubscribe or Change List Options:
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363548 is a reply to message #363540] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 11:25 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Another thing I have found out about Aluminum radiators is that there are two ways of securing the radiator tubes to the end tanks. One way involves using epoxy to secure them to the end tanks. The other way is to aluminum weld them to the tanks. We put a lot of miles on our coach traveling all over the south during the winter months. We are on our third "epoxy" radiator. It took me that many to figure out what is happening here. With the many heat/cool cycles, and many miles shaking this radiator down the road, over time the epoxy will deteriorate, and crack then leak. The epoxy type of securing the tubes cannot be repaired. You can use "Stop leak" but that only lasts until the next part of the epoxy springs a leak. I do not have experience with the Aluminum weld attachment system, but have heard from others that it is not as prone to cracking, and should it spring a leak, is more likely to be repaired. Now, the original type radiator that is copper, they can be recored and should you spring a leak, can be solder repaired by any competent radiator shop. So, before you do radiator work, do your research to make better choices. JMHO
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
|
|
|
|
| [GMCnet] Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363549 is a reply to message #363548] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 11:31 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I much prefer the Brass/Copper over the Aluminum. They can easily be
repaired or recorded, cost less than Aluminum, and if sized correctly for
the intended use, cool very well in adverse situations. And they are
nowhere as sensitive to corrosion, etc. Last for 40 years+.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 9:25 AM Larry wrote:
> Another thing I have found out about Aluminum radiators is that there are
> two ways of securing the radiator tubes to the end tanks. One way involves
> using epoxy to secure them to the end tanks. The other way is to aluminum
> weld them to the tanks. We put a lot of miles on our coach traveling all
> over the south during the winter months. We are on our third "epoxy"
> radiator. It took me that many to figure out what is happening here. With
> the
> many heat/cool cycles, and many miles shaking this radiator down the road,
> over time the epoxy will deteriorate, and crack then leak. The epoxy type
> of securing the tubes cannot be repaired. You can use "Stop leak" but that
> only lasts until the next part of the epoxy springs a leak. I do not have
> experience with the Aluminum weld attachment system, but have heard from
> others that it is not as prone to cracking, and should it spring a leak, is
> more likely to be repaired. Now, the original type radiator that is
> copper, they can be recored and should you spring a leak, can be solder
> repaired
> by any competent radiator shop. So, before you do radiator work, do your
> research to make better choices. JMHO
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
|
|
|
|
| [GMCnet] Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363551 is a reply to message #363549] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 12:03 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ask any radiator repair shop about aluminum vs copper brass and they will
all tell you the same thing. If you want it to last use copper/brass.
Sully
Bellevue wa
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 9:32 AM James Hupy wrote:
> I much prefer the Brass/Copper over the Aluminum. They can easily be
> repaired or recorded, cost less than Aluminum, and if sized correctly for
> the intended use, cool very well in adverse situations. And they are
> nowhere as sensitive to corrosion, etc. Last for 40 years+.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 9:25 AM Larry wrote:
>
>> Another thing I have found out about Aluminum radiators is that there are
>> two ways of securing the radiator tubes to the end tanks. One way
> involves
>> using epoxy to secure them to the end tanks. The other way is to aluminum
>> weld them to the tanks. We put a lot of miles on our coach traveling all
>> over the south during the winter months. We are on our third "epoxy"
>> radiator. It took me that many to figure out what is happening here. With
>> the
>> many heat/cool cycles, and many miles shaking this radiator down the
> road,
>> over time the epoxy will deteriorate, and crack then leak. The epoxy type
>> of securing the tubes cannot be repaired. You can use "Stop leak" but
> that
>> only lasts until the next part of the epoxy springs a leak. I do not have
>> experience with the Aluminum weld attachment system, but have heard from
>> others that it is not as prone to cracking, and should it spring a leak,
> is
>> more likely to be repaired. Now, the original type radiator that is
>> copper, they can be recored and should you spring a leak, can be solder
>> repaired
>> by any competent radiator shop. So, before you do radiator work, do your
>> research to make better choices. JMHO
>> --
>> Larry
>> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
>> Menomonie, WI.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363552 is a reply to message #363540] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 12:42 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Those of you that have had aluminum radiator failures... Are these the Griffin radiator? This is what I have, and I believe it has epoxied end tanks....
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363556 is a reply to message #363552] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 14:16 |
Al Hamilton
Messages: 61
Registered: March 2008
Location: Heart of the 1000 Islands...
Karma: 12
|
Member |
|
|
Thank you all for the input. I still plan to go to an external good quality cooler, rather than take my original out of the corner and have it tested. It was put away about 14 years ago with a five year old recore. I don't know who made the aluminum radiator only that they were sold at a GMCMI convention in Montgomery, Texas about 2007. About the good operating temperatures, for many years we went south in late December so I would partly cover the radiator and external transmission cooler with a piece of cardboard. Keeping an eye on the temperature gauges made the system work. It also helped with the cabin heat as well.
Al Hamilton,
76 Eleganza II,
Heart of the 1000 Islands, Ontario
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363578 is a reply to message #363552] |
Wed, 21 April 2021 09:08 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
my understanding from talking to others, is failures have been griffen. However, that means nothing as they were pretty much the only aluminum radiator for our coaches for a period of time, so the newer superior radiators that are offered up today, just do not have the miles or time on them yet to see if they are better or worse.
I have also seen 2 OEM radiator transmission cooler failures on GMC's. so it is not just an aluminum radiator issue.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Wed, 21 April 2021 09:10] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363581 is a reply to message #363580] |
Wed, 21 April 2021 10:13 |
Al Hamilton
Messages: 61
Registered: March 2008
Location: Heart of the 1000 Islands...
Karma: 12
|
Member |
|
|
Finally found receipt and rad info. It is a Griffin bought in 2006. The description and care & maintenance that came with it says it is epoxied over the aluminum welds. No other problem with it up to now and I wanted to get lower temperatures when hill climbing and very hot days with a car in tow. It did that so I was happy with it until now !!!
Al Hamilton,
76 Eleganza II,
Heart of the 1000 Islands, Ontario
|
|
|
|
| [GMCnet] Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363585 is a reply to message #363581] |
Wed, 21 April 2021 10:36 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
How thick are the tanks on the Griffin?
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 8:13 AM Al Hamilton wrote:
> Finally found receipt and rad info. It is a Griffin bought in 2006. The
> description and care & maintenance that came with it says it is epoxied over
> the aluminum welds. No other problem with it up to now and I wanted to get
> lower temperatures when hill climbing and very hot days with a car in tow.
> It did that so I was happy with it until now !!!
> --
> Al Hamilton,
> 76 Eleganza II,
> Heart of the 1000 Islands, Ontario
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363590 is a reply to message #363580] |
Wed, 21 April 2021 12:41 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Larry- Probably due to age.
but David Martin for one had that happen... right after he had his tranny rebuilt, he found his ATF full of antifreeze. but Like Ray- he caught it and flushed gallons of gallons of fluid to clear up the tranny, and installed a Griffen from Jim Buchannan at the time.
there was one more I remember seeing that had a cooler failure. That was years and years ago. I think his caused overheat and engine failure, and that is why it sticks in my head.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363591 is a reply to message #363581] |
Wed, 21 April 2021 15:37 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Al Hamilton wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 10:13 Finally found receipt and rad info. It is a Griffin bought in 2006. The description and care & maintenance that came with it says it is epoxied over the aluminum welds. No other problem with it up to now and I wanted to get lower temperatures when hill climbing and very hot days with a car in tow. It did that so I was happy with it until now !!!
Hmm.. As you say, it looks like Griffin uses braze or weld on their rads... The Epoxy is only there for reinforcement..
https://www.griffinrad.com/epoxy_faq.php?tid=44
That seems like an ideal way to construct the radiator...
They also have an interesting FAQ on electrolysis:
https://www.griffinrad.com/electrolysis.php?tid=46
I wonder if the metal hardlines going to the tranny cooler may act as a conductor, which is concentrating possible electrolysis damage there?
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: AT Fluid in the Radiator [message #363594 is a reply to message #363590] |
Wed, 21 April 2021 16:32 |
Al Hamilton
Messages: 61
Registered: March 2008
Location: Heart of the 1000 Islands...
Karma: 12
|
Member |
|
|
The tanks on the aluminum rad are about 3 1/2 " and 4 " on the original.
In my case about the last foot of each fluid line is rubber. Not that I was trying to prevent electrolysis, but putting in new lines was easier. I went around the right side of the engine to run them under a heat shield I installed to protect the engine oil lines.
Al Hamilton,
76 Eleganza II,
Heart of the 1000 Islands, Ontario
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Fri Oct 04 12:16:16 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01571 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
