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| Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363316] |
Wed, 07 April 2021 18:31  |
Greg C.
Messages: 224
Registered: October 2019
Location: Knoxville, TN
Karma: 0
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Now that my radiator is out (taking it to the radiator shop tomorrow) I need to change the timing chain, water pump, fuel pump, etc., etc.
I've read and printed out the maintenance manual pages, looked at Carl S's pictures, read Gene Fisher's info, and done several searches of the forum.
I would like some opinions on a couple of items.
1. Use the oil pan to timing cover rubber gasket, or RTV?
2. Use the GMB water pump, Flowkooler water pump, Dayco water pump (can't find this one now) or a different water pump?
3. What "gotchas" might I run into that have not been discussed in the above mentioned literature?
Thank you.
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN
"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
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| Re: Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363333 is a reply to message #363316] |
Thu, 08 April 2021 13:03  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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use the oilpan to rubber gasket. razerblade carefully the little triangle outcroppings that are supposed to sandwich between the oil pan and the block. I have heard some say you can loosen up oil pan bolts, but I just see that as a messy oil pan gasket leak in the future if you disturb the oil pan to block gasket/seal. Use black RTV on the corners where that meets. also use black RTV on the upper paper gasket of the timing cover.
I make a couple studs. put those in the block and I use a Nut on those studs to work/press the chain cover in place in a controlled manner. bottom in 1st and let it tilt upward. I also file the top edge of the 2 guide pins a little to help that transition. I recommend just getting the timing chaing cover sealed and in place, let that dry till the next day, then go back day 2- and mount up the water pump.
I also made a straight edge with a cutout for the crank. so you can put that across the timing gears and be certain they are lined up. Sometimes just visualizing you tend to question if you are a tooth one way or the other.
I also recommend a new harmonic balancer. the old one usually has a grove that won't match with the new oil seal, and even though there is a bushing for the end of the balancer with some kits, I have never had luck getting the bushing on the balancer.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363334 is a reply to message #363316] |
Thu, 08 April 2021 14:26 |
Greg C.
Messages: 224
Registered: October 2019
Location: Knoxville, TN
Karma: 0
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John:
Thanks for the reply. I was beginning to think no one was reading. I will do as you suggest and use the rubber seal.
I do plan to get a new harmonic balancer, as experience has taught me those things can slip when bathed with oil for decades. I've read so many opinions on timing chains and water pumps. I'm going to get the
Cloyes true roller, overkill though it may be. I was going to get the flowkooler water pump, but woe unto you if you try to decide which one to use by looking at their website. The Cardone pump is NLA, the
Dayco HD pump is NLA now, at least, not quickly, so I will go with whatever Jim K sells me. The stainless 3/8" trans cooler lines (mine were very rusty and twisted apart) and the stainless flexible oil cooler
lines are also going in, as well as a new front motor mount. I have a 307 aluminum intake, the correct casting number, that will go on along with new t-stat, all hoses, belts, sending units, etc. The aluminum
intake is not necessary, but the heat crossover blocking plates need to be installed anyway. My radiator is at the shop, getting re-cored with 16 fins per inch, four row. That should cool it just fine.
Any suggestions on how to flush the engine block while everything is open?
Ordering parts this afternoon. Thanks again!
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN
"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
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| Re: Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363335 is a reply to message #363334] |
Thu, 08 April 2021 14:39 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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When you deal with the water pump and have the timing cover off. antifreeze will drop down and get into the oil pan. you will want to drain the oil and leave the plug out. then dump a gallon of cheap oil in after all is said and done and let that drain out to flush what you can out of the front of the oil pan. then put the oil plug in and fill up the oil. No matter what you do, some antifreeze is going to go down the front of the engine and get into the front of the oil pan. you can pull he block drains and such too. I never really flushed the block ever. not really sure the best method to do that with everything apart.
I have no suggestions on the water pump. water pump part availability changes way too often. One thing with the water pump, is to make sure your pullys are square, and you have good belts tighted up properly.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363336 is a reply to message #363334] |
Thu, 08 April 2021 14:43 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Please send me photos of the tranny cooler lines you end up with. I installed a rebuilt tranny and went to 3/8" tranny cooler lines last year. bending them and getting that all to work was way more of a chore then I had anticipated. I spent twice as long dealing with making the tranny cooler lines then it took me to install the transmission. 403 is probably different then a 455. I ended up pretty much the same stock tranny cooler lines from the transmission to the final drive. where i did wrap them in a heat sleeve to help with the header heat. Then ended up transitioning to high pressure braided flexible lines at that point.
Local guy has a tranny problem, and it looks like I will be back into the tranny R+R hobby here in a few weeks once he gets his new tranny. I am guessing that will need new 3/8" lines as well.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Thu, 08 April 2021 14:44] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363338 is a reply to message #363316] |
Thu, 08 April 2021 20:41 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Jon pretty much covered it. I used a GMB "heavy duty" water pump when I did my engine overhaul 45,000 miles after doing the timing chain etc. The pump has not given me any trouble.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363348 is a reply to message #363338] |
Fri, 09 April 2021 11:29 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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I had better luck with the GMB then the flow cooler .with the flow cooler I had overheating problems. I would drain the block before pulling the pump so coolent doesn’t end up in the front sump of the pan. For sure don’t jack up the engine under the pan or it will push up against the oil pump intake. I loosened the front pan bolts and used permatex to reseal it. Cloyes chains are less apt to stretch.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363358 is a reply to message #363316] |
Fri, 09 April 2021 19:17 |
Greg C.
Messages: 224
Registered: October 2019
Location: Knoxville, TN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks everyone. I ordered the water pump from Jim K yesterday. Took the old water pump and the harmonic balancer off today. Big groove in the balancer, ordered another one.
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN
"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
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| Re: Water Pump and Timing Chain [message #363407 is a reply to message #363336] |
Tue, 13 April 2021 19:34 |
Greg C.
Messages: 224
Registered: October 2019
Location: Knoxville, TN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jon: I will take some pictures of the transmission cooler lines and send them to you when I receive them. They are scheduled for delivery on Friday, if FedEx doesn't deliver them to the wrong house again.
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN
"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
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