Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 455 or 403 in my coach?
| 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361611] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 11:28  |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
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Don't know for sure what engine is in my rig, did a quick search in the archive and unfortunately the "how to tell" link is dead but did come across this
> Changeover began on Mar 1st 1977 with TZE167V101285 for GM finished
> coaches and TZE337V101287 for Transmodes.
>
>
>
> David Lee Greenberg
I just found out my VIN is TZE167V101295, so 10 units after the changeover to 403? Is this correct, there's definitely a 403 in my 77 Palm Beach?
I just registered the coach's VIN with the GMC Motorhome Registry and found out it was registered a few times before - originally in Tucson AZ then Palmer Lake CO 2010 then Bakerfield CA 2014 (where the PO bought it and imported it to Canada)
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| Re: [GMCnet] 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361612 is a reply to message #361611] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 11:32  |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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"definitely" might be a bit of a stretch for a 44ish year old GMC!
But it sounds likely that it's a 403.
Rob
76 Royale Twin Beds, Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
> On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:28 AM, twlldeen--- via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Don't know for sure what engine is in my rig, did a quick search in the archive and unfortunately the "how to tell" link is dead but did come across
> this
>
>> Changeover began on Mar 1st 1977 with TZE167V101285 for GM finished
>> coaches and TZE337V101287 for Transmodes.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Lee Greenberg
>
> I just found out my VIN is TZE167V101295, so 10 units after the changeover to 403? Is this correct, there's definitely a 403 in my 77 Palm Beach?
>
> I just registered the coach's VIN with the GMC Motorhome Registry and found out it was registered a few times before - originally in Tucson AZ then
> Palmer Lake CO 2010 then Bakerfield CA 2014 (where the PO bought it and imported it to Canada)
>
> Larry
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 original miles so far
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361614 is a reply to message #361611] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 12:14 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir, if it is factory OEM.... the steel fuel line from fuel pump to carburetor is routed to the left of the top radiator hose on a 403 and is routed to the right of the radiator hose on a 455. A 403 will have an idle solenoid stop on the carburetor shaft and an extra vacuum tree on drivers side to control the electric solenoid on the front of the drivers side head which is fed from a solenoid bolted on the front of the passenger head.. A 403 and a455 have the same number of detents for valve cover bolts but 403s are only tapped and drilled in every other one. On a 403 it is cast on the side of the block in big numbers. A 455 is a big block and will have a sunk down intake to clear the floor. A 403 is a small block and does not need the lower intake. A 403 has a more noticeable dog leg in the pass exhaust manifold to clear the oil filter and cooler adapter.
boybach wrote on Sun, 10 January 2021 12:28Don't know for sure what engine is in my rig, did a quick search in the archive and unfortunately the "how to tell" link is dead but did come across this
> Changeover began on Mar 1st 1977 with TZE167V101285 for GM finished
> coaches and TZE337V101287 for Transmodes.
>
>
>
> David Lee Greenberg
I just found out my VIN is TZE167V101295, so 10 units after the changeover to 403? Is this correct, there's definitely a 403 in my 77 Palm Beach?
I just registered the coach's VIN with the GMC Motorhome Registry and found out it was registered a few times before - originally in Tucson AZ then Palmer Lake CO 2010 then Bakerfield CA 2014 (where the PO bought it and imported it to Canada)
Larry
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
[Updated on: Sun, 10 January 2021 12:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361615 is a reply to message #361614] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 12:22 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
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Thanks for the explanation but I haven't seen the coach I bought yet, thought it may be possible to determine from the VIN alone but maybe not eh?
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| Re: 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361617 is a reply to message #361615] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 12:29 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Do you have a pic of the engine?
boybach wrote on Sun, 10 January 2021 13:22Thanks for the explanation but I haven't seen the coach I bought yet, thought it may be possible to determine from the VIN alone but maybe not eh?
Larry
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361618 is a reply to message #361617] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 12:31 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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A 455 will have an engine identification decal on the rear of the pass valve cover. On a 403 it is a larger decal on the air filter.
C Boyd wrote on Sun, 10 January 2021 13:29Do you have a pic of the engine?
boybach wrote on Sun, 10 January 2021 13:22Thanks for the explanation but I haven't seen the coach I bought yet, thought it may be possible to determine from the VIN alone but maybe not eh?
Larry
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361620 is a reply to message #361611] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 12:52 |
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These 4 (confusing) entries in the registry database might help or not. ;-)
30 End Of 455 Engine 167v101284 Last 455ci engine
31 Begin 403 Engine 167v101281 Begin 403ci engine in
motorhome
32 Begin 403 Engine 337v101287 Begin 403ci engine in 23'
Transmode
33 Begin 403 Engine 367v101312 Royal 403ci Engine
The first two entries are all that matter to you since you have a GMC
finished coach. Since they overlap, they really do not help at all.
When you do find out for sure, I'll be very interested in knowing for the
registry notes.
bdub
admin, The GMC Motorhome Registry
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of twlldeen--- via Gmclist
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 11:28 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] 455 or 403 in my coach?
Don't know for sure what engine is in my rig, did a quick search in the
archive and unfortunately the "how to tell" link is dead but did come across
this
> Changeover began on Mar 1st 1977 with TZE167V101285 for GM finished
> coaches and TZE337V101287 for Transmodes.
>
>
>
> David Lee Greenberg
I just found out my VIN is TZE167V101295, so 10 units after the changeover
to 403? Is this correct, there's definitely a 403 in my 77 Palm Beach?
I just registered the coach's VIN with the GMC Motorhome Registry and found
out it was registered a few times before - originally in Tucson AZ then
Palmer Lake CO 2010 then Bakerfield CA 2014 (where the PO bought it and
imported it to Canada)
Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 original miles so far
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bdub
bdub.net
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| Re: 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361621 is a reply to message #361618] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 13:00 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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No I don't have any photos of the engine yet.
All I have are the pics posted in the thread "Anyone recognize this 77 Palm beach?"
thanks
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| Re: [GMCnet] 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361622 is a reply to message #361620] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 13:19 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I would say only partially confusing. Construction
on the chassis that became 1284 with a 455 likely
started before that of 1281, 1282, and 1283 but
the 1284 was simply late to get its VIN assigned due
to slower completion than the latest and greatest!
Just my guess, of course.
D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Billy Massey via Gmclist
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 12:52
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Billy Massey
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 455 or 403 in my coach?
These 4 (confusing) entries in the registry database might help or not. ;-)
30 End Of 455 Engine 167v101284 Last 455ci engine
31 Begin 403 Engine 167v101281 Begin 403ci engine in
motorhome
32 Begin 403 Engine 337v101287 Begin 403ci engine in 23'
Transmode
33 Begin 403 Engine 367v101312 Royal 403ci Engine
The first two entries are all that matter to you since you have a GMC
finished coach. Since they overlap, they really do not help at all.
When you do find out for sure, I'll be very interested in knowing for the
registry notes.
bdub
admin, The GMC Motorhome Registry
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| Re: [GMCnet] 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361623 is a reply to message #361622] |
Sun, 10 January 2021 13:48 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Looking more and more like it's gonna be a 403 under the hood.
thanks guys
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| Re: 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361978 is a reply to message #361614] |
Mon, 25 January 2021 08:11 |
JRWood
Messages: 2
Registered: January 2021
Location: Murray, Kentucky
Karma: 0
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Mr. Boyd, that is an excellent description of all the vacuum operated controls on my 403. It is very original looking. It is a recent purchase but I have worked on a Royale also with a 403. My question; I would like to eliminate all of those devices that are unnecessary ie, thermal vacuum tree, solenoids, hoses, etc. and just have the vacuum advance on the carb ported vacuum and appropriate port for trans modulator. In your opinion, are those factory devices worth retaining? Would they likely even function properly at this age? Is it ok to eliminate them?
[quote title=C Boyd wrote on Sun, 10 January 2021 12:14]Sir, if it is factory OEM.... the steel fuel line from fuel pump to carburetor is routed to the left of the top radiator hose on a 403 and is routed to the right of the radiator hose on a 455. A 403 will have an idle solenoid stop on the carburetor shaft and an extra vacuum tree on drivers side to control the electric solenoid on the front of the drivers side head which is fed from a solenoid bolted on the front of the passenger head.. A 403 and a455 have the same number of detents for valve cover bolts but 403s are only tapped and drilled in every other one. On a 403 it is cast on the side of the block in big numbers. A 455 is a big block and will have a sunk down intake to clear the floor. A 403 is a small block and does not need the lower intake. A 403 has a more noticeable dog leg in the pass exhaust manifold to clear the oil filter and cooler adapter.
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| Re: [GMCnet] 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361979 is a reply to message #361978] |
Mon, 25 January 2021 11:27 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Never rely on data as previous owners might converted.
Just look on the engine block and see if there is a casting that is hard to
miss that will show 403.
Also the valve cover bolts
On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 6:12 AM ihv8--- via Gmclist
wrote:
>
> Mr. Boyd, that is an excellent description of all the vacuum operated
> controls on my 403. It is very original looking. It is a recent purchase
> but
> I have worked on a Royale also with a 403. My question; I would like to
> eliminate all of those devices that are unnecessary ie, thermal vacuum tree,
> solenoids, hoses, etc. and just have the vacuum advance on the carb ported
> vacuum and appropriate port for trans modulator. In your opinion, are
> those factory devices worth retaining? Would they likely even function
> properly at this age? Is it ok to eliminate them?
>
>
> [quote title=C Boyd wrote on Sun, 10 January 2021 12:14]Sir, if it is
> factory OEM.... the steel fuel line from fuel pump to carburetor is routed
> to
> the left of the top radiator hose on a 403 and is routed to the right of
> the radiator hose on a 455. A 403 will have an idle solenoid stop on the
> carburetor shaft and an extra vacuum tree on drivers side to control the
> electric solenoid on the front of the drivers side head which is fed from a
> solenoid bolted on the front of the passenger head.. A 403 and a455 have
> the same number of detents for valve cover bolts but 403s are only tapped
> and drilled in every other one. On a 403 it is cast on the side of the
> block in big numbers. A 455 is a big block and will have a sunk down intake
> to clear the floor. A 403 is a small block and does not need the lower
> intake. A 403 has a more noticeable dog leg in the pass exhaust manifold to
> clear the oil filter and cooler adapter.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361980 is a reply to message #361611] |
Mon, 25 January 2021 15:34 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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how many bolts holding a rocker cover on? Not spaces, bolts.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: 455 or 403 in my coach? [message #361982 is a reply to message #361978] |
Tue, 26 January 2021 09:20 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Mr. Wood, the 403s I am familiar with belonged to friends that I was helping on. The 403 has larger pistons and a shorter stroke than the 455 and calls for 12* initial timing and a carb with different idle circuits. It doesn’t want to idle like the longer stroke 455 engines at 650 rpm. The idle circuit is the extra stuff we are talking about. I did try to figure out what it does and why but I still am not sure. If engine conditions are at the right temp and all the different components are working correctly it controls the idle speed dashpot when the transmission is in Drive. I also believe it has something to do with controlling the EGR valve which the motorhome does not have. I believe when you stop and transmission is in drive the engine is held at a faster idle and when you put it in park it idles down so you can shut the engine off without dieseling. I know the parts are not easy to test and bout impossible to find. If the only reason is to stop dieseling when you shut engine off I believe you can accomplish that by using the electric dashpot to be active and control idle while running and closing the butterflies completely when turned off as in other GM model cars. I have also used the dashpot to activate with the A/C to increase idle speed with A/C on. As for advise on to keep and use or take it off? Everybody I asked said take it off and turn the engine off while still in drive if dieseling is an issue. In my case the owner wanted it to work so I did the best I could.. if you do decide to take it off, post the parts on the swap meet as I know of a few people that are looking for parts to get theirs working. I’m sorry I’m not much help.
[quote title=JRWood wrote on Mon, 25 January 2021 09:11]
Mr. Boyd, that is an excellent description of all the vacuum operated controls on my 403. It is very original looking. It is a recent purchase but I have worked on a Royale also with a 403. My question; I would like to eliminate all of those devices that are unnecessary ie, thermal vacuum tree, solenoids, hoses, etc. and just have the vacuum advance on the carb ported vacuum and appropriate port for trans modulator. In your opinion, are those factory devices worth retaining? Would they likely even function properly at this age? Is it ok to eliminate them?
C Boyd wrote on Sun, 10 January 2021 12:14Sir, if it is factory OEM.... the steel fuel line from fuel pump to carburetor is routed to the left of the top radiator hose on a 403 and is routed to the right of the radiator hose on a 455. A 403 will have an idle solenoid stop on the carburetor shaft and an extra vacuum tree on drivers side to control the electric solenoid on the front of the drivers side head which is fed from a solenoid bolted on the front of the passenger head.. A 403 and a455 have the same number of detents for valve cover bolts but 403s are only tapped and drilled in every other one. On a 403 it is cast on the side of the block in big numbers. A 455 is a big block and will have a sunk down intake to clear the floor. A 403 is a small block and does not need the lower intake. A 403 has a more noticeable dog leg in the pass exhaust manifold to clear the oil filter and cooler adapter.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
[Updated on: Tue, 26 January 2021 09:23] Report message to a moderator |
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