Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Windows
| Windows [message #361814] |
Sun, 17 January 2021 01:23  |
BoboBob13
Messages: 49
Registered: June 2018
Location: Las Vegas
Karma: -3
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Member |
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I'm redoing the interior on my 75 GMC. The bottom panels are easy. The part
around the windows takes a bit more time. What I am running into is holding
in each of the windows on the side except for the very front one are held
in place 4 flat strips of metal. These strips help hold the plastic molding
that went around the windows which has long since been gone. Now the strips
along with the screws the hold them onto the windows push out the new side panels
around the windows.
My question is do you really need these strips to hold in the windows or can they
be left off without the window falling out or has anyone tried running a screw into
the side of the window frames and into the ribs of the body?
Thanks for the help,
Bob
Bob Broadwell
75 Eleganza II-Rebuilt performance engine, Manny trans, Manny 1-ton front end, 73 23ft with a side bath getting some updates-both living in Las Vegas
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| Re: [GMCnet] Windows [message #361815 is a reply to message #361814] |
Sun, 17 January 2021 09:18  |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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Robert,
The items that you mention hold the window in, granted on most factory installed there is only a foam seal between the window and the body. Even if you have some sealant on the outside of the window the flexing of the gap between the window and body could cause it to loosen. If you want to take a chance that your window may pass you on the roadway then leave them out, inexpensive to make and install to prevent any further issues. Replacement windows ( I have done several sets) have an inside flange that helps pull the window into the opening and a buna tape is used to provide the seal and is very sticky and there is a tighting procedure that takes several days (hopefully in warm weather or a heated work area) to do it right that pulls the windows into the opening and buna tape and causes it to be squeezed out and be trimmed.
J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Jan 17, 2021, at 2:23 AM, Robert Edwin Broadwell via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I'm redoing the interior on my 75 GMC. The bottom panels are easy. The part
> around the windows takes a bit more time. What I am running into is holding
> in each of the windows on the side except for the very front one are held
> in place 4 flat strips of metal. These strips help hold the plastic molding
> that went around the windows which has long since been gone. Now the strips
> along with the screws the hold them onto the windows push out the new side panels
> around the windows.
>
> My question is do you really need these strips to hold in the windows or can they
> be left off without the window falling out or has anyone tried running a screw into
> the side of the window frames and into the ribs of the body?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Bob
> --
> Bob Broadwell
> 75 Eleganza II-Rebuilt performance engine, Manny trans, Manny 1-ton front end, 73 23ft with a side bath getting some updates-both living in Las Vegas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Windows [message #361817 is a reply to message #361814] |
Sun, 17 January 2021 09:50 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
Those strips do all of the work holding the window from making a hasty exit towards the pavement. Do not rely on adhesive between the window flange and aluminum skin. Putting additional holes through the sides of the frame into the aluminum ribs would create leak points and almost assuredly loosen over time.
Searching the GMC Photo Site will show how other people dealt with the situation:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g4850-window-trim-treatment.html
Jon,
I've only used butyl tape to set and seal the windows. I didn't know that Buna (nitrile) gasketing was used for the windows, or even available, I just knew of Buna O-rings. Is the stuff sticky on one or both sides? Link?
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] Windows [message #361818 is a reply to message #361815] |
Sun, 17 January 2021 09:57 |
stu@97381.com, Emery
Messages: 232
Registered: June 2020
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Without those metal pieces the windows will be sucked out as you drive. Don’t even think of leaving them out.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick CO
> On Jan 17, 2021, at 8:18 AM, John Wright via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Robert,
> The items that you mention hold the window in, granted on most factory installed there is only a foam seal between the window and the body. Even if you have some sealant on the outside of the window the flexing of the gap between the window and body could cause it to loosen. If you want to take a chance that your window may pass you on the roadway then leave them out, inexpensive to make and install to prevent any further issues. Replacement windows ( I have done several sets) have an inside flange that helps pull the window into the opening and a buna tape is used to provide the seal and is very sticky and there is a tighting procedure that takes several days (hopefully in warm weather or a heated work area) to do it right that pulls the windows into the opening and buna tape and causes it to be squeezed out and be trimmed.
>
> J.R. Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMCGL Tech Editor
> GMC Eastern States Charter Member
> GMCMI
> 78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
> 75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
>
>> On Jan 17, 2021, at 2:23 AM, Robert Edwin Broadwell via Gmclist wrote:
>>
>> I'm redoing the interior on my 75 GMC. The bottom panels are easy. The part
>> around the windows takes a bit more time. What I am running into is holding
>> in each of the windows on the side except for the very front one are held
>> in place 4 flat strips of metal. These strips help hold the plastic molding
>> that went around the windows which has long since been gone. Now the strips
>> along with the screws the hold them onto the windows push out the new side panels
>> around the windows.
>>
>> My question is do you really need these strips to hold in the windows or can they
>> be left off without the window falling out or has anyone tried running a screw into
>> the side of the window frames and into the ribs of the body?
>>
>> Thanks for the help,
>> Bob
>> --
>> Bob Broadwell
>> 75 Eleganza II-Rebuilt performance engine, Manny trans, Manny 1-ton front end, 73 23ft with a side bath getting some updates-both living in Las Vegas
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Windows [message #361822 is a reply to message #361817] |
Sun, 17 January 2021 19:41 |
BoboBob13
Messages: 49
Registered: June 2018
Location: Las Vegas
Karma: -3
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Member |
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going thru the side of the frame would be on the inboard side of the glass.
none of the holes would go out into the exterior so I would see no problem
in regards to leaks.
Bob Broadwell
75 Eleganza II-Rebuilt performance engine, Manny trans, Manny 1-ton front end, 73 23ft with a side bath getting some updates-both living in Las Vegas
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| Re: [GMCnet] Windows [message #361823 is a reply to message #361822] |
Sun, 17 January 2021 20:21 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Robert,
Are you talking about setting the screws parallel to the aluminum skin,
rather than perpendicular? I would NOT advise that either -- you'll lose
the tension/strain in the screws which helps to keep the frame tight
against the aluminum skin.
There are a lot of reasonable ways to hide those strips, including guides
for your window coverings, which you will probably want anyway for keeping
the coverings out of the way and improving their heating/cooling insulation
value.
JMHO,
Ken H.
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 8:41 PM Robert Edwin Broadwell via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
> going thru the side of the frame would be on the inboard side of the glass.
> none of the holes would go out into the exterior so I would see no problem
> in regards to leaks.
> --
> Bob Broadwell
> 75 Eleganza II-Rebuilt performance engine, Manny trans, Manny 1-ton front
> end, 73 23ft with a side bath getting some updates-both living in Las Vegas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Windows [message #361835 is a reply to message #361822] |
Mon, 18 January 2021 21:15 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my earlier reply. Ken touched on the concerns in his reply.
The screws attaching the OEM backing strips to the window frame are solely in tension and provide a clamping force. Putting screws through the window frame and into the aluminum body framing would not provide any ability to pull the window in while setting it in place. Once the window is in place the screws exert the clamping force, butyl squeezes out so the screws are tweaked a little tighter, wait a bit, higher temperature, maybe a little more butyl squeezes out, and the excess butyl is trimmed flush with the exterior frame. Rinse and repeat.
The coach and windows are 45 years old, nothing is, or ever was, a perfect fit. I've never seen windows that just laid up perfectly uniformly against the aluminum skin. Some windows are worse than others, but in any event you absolutely must have that clamping force pulling the window against the body...and to keep it there. Screws in the plane of the window frame fill none of the requirements. No clamping force, window shifts as the coach is bouncing down the road, seal is compromised, leaks.
The only requirement that "in-plane" screws would fulfill is removing the obstruction that is causing your paneling to not fit flush. Which begs the question - why isn't it fitting flush? I don't recall ever hearing of the window retaining strips causing a problem with new paneling.
How about posting some pictures to help diagnose the problem?
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Windows [message #361843 is a reply to message #361835] |
Tue, 19 January 2021 09:59 |
BoboBob13
Messages: 49
Registered: June 2018
Location: Las Vegas
Karma: -3
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Member |
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Thanks for all the feedback from everyone. Guess I will leave the strips
in place with some modifications.
The strips have a lip in the middle that was to help hold the plastic trim
the was originally used which is long since gone. That lip and the round
headed screws that hold the strips onto the window stick out enough to
kick what ever you use for a panel around the windows out away from the
window-not much but enough so there is a gap between the window and the
panel.
Now before they used some Trim Lok molding that has another molding on the back
side that takes up that gap. Another option is to take a grind the lip off of the
strips and use flat head screws to hold the strips to the window-a bit of work as there
are 4 strips per window.
From what I understand pics don't upload here well so ....
Again thanks for all the feedback and will get back to the window panels today.
Bob
Bob Broadwell
75 Eleganza II-Rebuilt performance engine, Manny trans, Manny 1-ton front end, 73 23ft with a side bath getting some updates-both living in Las Vegas
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| Re: [GMCnet] Windows [message #361859 is a reply to message #361843] |
Tue, 19 January 2021 19:36 |
Jimmy_Bonez
Messages: 105
Registered: September 2017
Location: NH
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Robert,
I did exactly as you described in your last response. My OEM plastic trim was brittle and beat up. I kept the original aluminum brackets on because of there holding needs, but I ground them down smooth and used a countersink bit along with tapered screws. Cleaned it up in my opinion and made it easier to adapt any future window treatment.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:00 AM, Robert Edwin Broadwell via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the feedback from everyone. Guess I will leave the strips
> in place with some modifications.
>
> The strips have a lip in the middle that was to help hold the plastic trim
> the was originally used which is long since gone. That lip and the round
> headed screws that hold the strips onto the window stick out enough to
> kick what ever you use for a panel around the windows out away from the
> window-not much but enough so there is a gap between the window and the
> panel.
>
> Now before they used some Trim Lok molding that has another molding on the back
> side that takes up that gap. Another option is to take a grind the lip off of the
> strips and use flat head screws to hold the strips to the window-a bit of work as there
> are 4 strips per window.
>
> From what I understand pics don't upload here well so ....
>
> Again thanks for all the feedback and will get back to the window panels today.
>
> Bob
> --
> Bob Broadwell
> 75 Eleganza II-Rebuilt performance engine, Manny trans, Manny 1-ton front end, 73 23ft with a side bath getting some updates-both living in Las Vegas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Jim DeMellia and Jen Radefeld and our cat Ickis
NH natives
1975 GMC “Palm Beach” ,455, her names Linda
Full time RVers exploring the beautiful and unusual parts of the country.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Windows [message #361860 is a reply to message #361818] |
Tue, 19 January 2021 21:02 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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stu@97381.com, Emery wrote on Sun, 17 January 2021 09:57Without those metal pieces the windows will be sucked out as you drive. Don’t even think of leaving them out.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick CO
I know of 2 coaches that have lost side widows (both left side) while driving down the Interstate caused by improper installation. There is not much left of them after they hit the ground and a few trucks run over the remains.
Do not do it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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