Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness
| DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360833] |
Tue, 15 December 2020 09:56  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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i do like the facebook GMC group, mostly because i can quickly post a photo from my phone.
But in a conversation about snapping up a Toro drive train for a backup someone said with ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY that the intake and oil pan are different.
He's wrong, right?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
[Updated on: Tue, 15 December 2020 09:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360836 is a reply to message #360833] |
Tue, 15 December 2020 10:51  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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hertfordnc wrote on Tue, 15 December 2020 10:56i do like the facebook GMC group, mostly because i can quickly post a photo from my phone.
But in a conversation about snapping up a Toro drive train for a backup someone said with ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY that the intake and oil pan are different.
He's wrong, right?
Dave,
He is right about the intake, that was a coach only part.
But the oil pan?
I don't think so. Of the two 455s I acquired, one had a obvious inline pan, but the other was not a coach engine (tall intake) and it had the same (but totally trashed) oil pan. As with your other, they all have to have clearance for the right side cross shaft.
Having torn down two Toro engines in the last couple of years, there is less in common with the passcar engine than you might expect.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360849 is a reply to message #360841] |
Tue, 15 December 2020 15:03 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Intake is different but can be used by removing the EGR Valve and caping it.
Also be ready to install the Electric Choke.
It will clear the engine cover.
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 10:26 AM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> The motorhome application has a different intake manifold. Pans are same
> shape, internal baffles are different, but will interchange.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 9:09 AM roy keen via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Intake and oil pan are interchangeable between coach and toro. The toro
>> will have a place for an egr valve that can be blocked.
>> --
>> Roy Keen
>> Minden,NV
>> 76 X Glenbrook
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360855 is a reply to message #360854] |
Wed, 16 December 2020 00:24 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Thanks Jim I know that is a cause. It was about 30 years since I changed the manifold I blocked off the crossover around 15 years ago which is what most folks should do also to help from putting too much heat into that manifold. A couple of low back pressure mufflers is a big help also.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360856 is a reply to message #360833] |
Wed, 16 December 2020 01:02 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Intake and oil pans are the same except Toro has a provision for an EGR on the intake. When used on a non-EGR installation like a GMC, you put a simple 2 bolt plate over the EGR port (Jim K has them). I have a Toro one right now soaking in my parts washer. Been there for a long time. I need to pull it out of the washer, bead blast it, and paint it. I have seen a couple of them installed on GMCs. At one GMCMI rally Dick Paterson donated a Toro manifold for the raffle.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360857 is a reply to message #360856] |
Wed, 16 December 2020 04:00 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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I just got a note from another GMCer to the effect that ALL Olds 403
manifolds are interchangeable, car or motorhome. The ports are identical
too. He's running an aluminum manifold from a 307; BUT, it must have the
letters "AG" cast near the thermostat or it will have small ports.
JWHS (Just What He Said).
Ken H.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 2:03 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Intake and oil pans are the same except Toro has a provision for an EGR on
> the intake. When used on a non-EGR installation like a GMC, you put a
> simple 2 bolt plate over the EGR port (Jim K has them). I have a Toro one
> right now soaking in my parts washer. Been there for a long time. I need
> to pull it out of the washer, bead blast it, and paint it. I have seen a
> couple of them installed on GMCs. At one GMCMI rally Dick Paterson donated
> a Toro manifold for the raffle.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360859 is a reply to message #360857] |
Wed, 16 December 2020 06:26 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Good morning Ken, it is my understanding that all Olds small block intakes will bolt up to the 403. I have always “gasket matched” any intake manifold that I install. I take the intake gasket that I plan to use and lay it on the intake with the bolts in the holes to line it up and mark the area of the intake inside the gasket with a sharpie. I then use a Dremel grinder to remove the marked area to match the intake with the gasket for a smoother flow pattern over the jointing point. If I have the heads off I also use the same gasket to match the head intake ports the same way. I believe this is called “porting” in the hot rod terminology.
Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 16 December 2020 05:00I just got a note from another GMCer to the effect that ALL Olds 403
manifolds are interchangeable, car or motorhome. The ports are identical
too. He's running an aluminum manifold from a 307; BUT, it must have the
letters "AG" cast near the thermostat or it will have small ports.
JWHS (Just What He Said).
Ken H.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 2:03 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Intake and oil pans are the same except Toro has a provision for an EGR on
> the intake. When used on a non-EGR installation like a GMC, you put a
> simple 2 bolt plate over the EGR port (Jim K has them). I have a Toro one
> right now soaking in my parts washer. Been there for a long time. I need
> to pull it out of the washer, bead blast it, and paint it. I have seen a
> couple of them installed on GMCs. At one GMCMI rally Dick Paterson donated
> a Toro manifold for the raffle.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360861 is a reply to message #360859] |
Wed, 16 December 2020 06:41 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Me too, Chuck. And on the 455 I rebuilt in '98, there were "EGR nubs" (or
some such terminology) in the ports. At that time, the fad was to grind
those smooth, so I did so. At the time I had only 850 miles of GMC/Olds
experience, so I have no idea what the effect was. But, I understand that
the overall port smoothing which was in vogue at that time is no longer
considered advisable -- something about generating turbulence for mixture
improvement.
That should be enough to stimulate some discussion. :-)
Ken H.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 7:27 AM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Good morning Ken, it is my understanding that all Olds small block
> intakes will bolt up to the 403. I have always “gasket matched” any intake
> manifold that I install. I take the intake gasket that I plan to use and
> lay it on the intake with the bolts in the holes to line it up and mark the
> area of the intake inside the gasket with a sharpie. I then use a Dremel
> grinder to remove the marked area to match the intake with the gasket for a
> smoother flow pattern over the jointing point. If I have the heads off I
> also use the same gasket to match the head intake ports the same way. I
> believe this is called “porting” in the hot rod terminology.
>
>
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 16 December 2020 05:00
>> I just got a note from another GMCer to the effect that ALL Olds 403
>> manifolds are interchangeable, car or motorhome. The ports are identical
>> too. He's running an aluminum manifold from a 307; BUT, it must have the
>> letters "AG" cast near the thermostat or it will have small ports.
>>
>> JWHS (Just What He Said).
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 2:03 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Intake and oil pans are the same except Toro has a provision for an
> EGR on
>>> the intake. When used on a non-EGR installation like a GMC, you put a
>>> simple 2 bolt plate over the EGR port (Jim K has them). I have a
> Toro one
>>> right now soaking in my parts washer. Been there for a long time. I
> need
>>> to pull it out of the washer, bead blast it, and paint it. I have
> seen a
>>> couple of them installed on GMCs. At one GMCMI rally Dick Paterson
> donated
>>> a Toro manifold for the raffle.
>>> --
>>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>>> 76 Palm Beach
>>> Hebron, Indiana
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360865 is a reply to message #360857] |
Wed, 16 December 2020 07:41 |
Dave Stragand
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2017
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'A4', not 'AG'. These were on 1981-1984 Olds. They regularly show up
on ebay in the $50-$175 range 22504068 is the casting number. I also
have one for my coach. They are a great value in an aluminum manifold.
I paid $50 for mine.
The later 'A5' has the smaller ports and should be avoided. There's
some more info on them here:
http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/id29.html
-Dave
1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken
Henderson via Gmclist
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 5:01 AM
To: GMC Mail List
Cc: Ken Henderson; Ken Burton
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or
facebook foolishness
I just got a note from another GMCer to the effect that ALL Olds 403
manifolds are interchangeable, car or motorhome. The ports are
identical
too. He's running an aluminum manifold from a 307; BUT, it must have
the
letters "AG" cast near the thermostat or it will have small ports.
JWHS (Just What He Said).
Ken H.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
1978 Transmode (403)
Pittsburgh, PA
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| Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360866 is a reply to message #360865] |
Wed, 16 December 2020 08:32 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir, the way I read the article the ridges on the A4 might be helpful in the motorhome to add low end torque after gasket matching the ports? I don’t think many owners are worried about RPM over 4500. This is only speculation on my part as I have had limited experience with the 403 but always hope to learn more.
Dave Stragand wrote on Wed, 16 December 2020 08:41'A4', not 'AG'. These were on 1981-1984 Olds. They regularly show up
on ebay in the $50-$175 range 22504068 is the casting number. I also
have one for my coach. They are a great value in an aluminum manifold.
I paid $50 for mine.
The later 'A5' has the smaller ports and should be avoided. There's
some more info on them here:
http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/id29.html
-Dave
1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken
Henderson via Gmclist
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 5:01 AM
To: GMC Mail List
Cc: Ken Henderson; Ken Burton
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or
facebook foolishness
I just got a note from another GMCer to the effect that ALL Olds 403
manifolds are interchangeable, car or motorhome. The ports are
identical
too. He's running an aluminum manifold from a 307; BUT, it must have
the
letters "AG" cast near the thermostat or it will have small ports.
JWHS (Just What He Said).
Ken H.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: DIfferent Intake and oil pan in the GMC? or facebook foolishness [message #360867 is a reply to message #360833] |
Wed, 16 December 2020 08:35 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Now I am wondering what I have in the barn.
It is a 455 that had HEI and a front drive pan, but manifold on it is 2~3 inches taller than mine. I don't really care a lot, it also has a case iron crank, a bad block and is headed for the scrap yard as soon as I can figure out how to move it. I will be putting the G heads (from the other engine) on Ebay.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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